Blown Away by Realism

[EtherealN]

WH = Warthog = the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog: http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=221&PlatformID=5

[Pilotasso]

That's a $500+ question. It's an acronym for this:

http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-Hotas-Warthog-Flight-Stick/dp/B00419ZUXS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1303845839&sr=8-1

 

You guys can keep your TMWH's. The X65f is freakin' awesome, even better since I only paid $200 for mine brand new. That means I have extra $$$ to spend on TrackIR 5, MFD's, and beer. I fly much better with beer.

 

I am still working on a Kinect tracking solution though.

 

have you tried both??

[metalnwood]

That's a $500+ question. It's an acronym for this:

http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-Hotas-Warthog-Flight-Stick/dp/B00419ZUXS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1303845839&sr=8-1

 

You guys can keep your TMWH's. The X65f is freakin' awesome, even better since I only paid $200 for mine brand new. That means I have extra $$$ to spend on TrackIR 5, MFD's, and beer. I fly much better with beer.

 

I am still working on a Kinect tracking solution though.

 

 

Are you new to simming? You dont have a TIR? Why is it that the guys who dont want a WH dont have a TIR either?

[EtherealN]

Because limited budgets would restrict both? Family might take precedent on the spending? Oh how terrible... :P

[metalnwood]

I had a little bit of subtle sarcasm on there. I found it hard to believe some of these simmers dont already have a TIR .

[EtherealN]

I simmed for 8 years without it, using left hand on a mouse for view. Worked fine in IL-2 dogfight. Obviously not as fine as TIR, but that's one of those differences you don't realize until you've tried it.

[metalnwood]

Yeah, youre right, we lived without it before - not afterwards though :)

 

That last comment of mine wasn't really aimed at an individual poster, I was just getting annoyed at all the justifications to not get one. Let the buyer decide how much money they want to spend, it's their money and we should help them with the other questions like is it any good? It's up to the buyer to decide if it is 'worth' it.

[oritpro]

have you tried both??

 

Not with beer.

 

This is starting to remind me of the OSX versus Linux versus Microsoft Windows debates... :)

 

I recently returned to simming after being away for about 10-years, so no, I don't have all the latest newfangled hardware attached to my system...yet.

 

However, I am quite happy with the X65F and plan to stick with it (pun intended). We can debate which is better all day long but it really boils down to personal preference and how much your willing to spend.

Edited April 27, 2011 by oritpro

[213]

Yeah, since updating BS is a good idea when ED still has things they want to do with the A-10...

 

i'm talking strictly about engine improvements. a10 features will be for a10, so they can do it now or later, it won't affect black shark.

 

just would like to have better engine optimization cause cities kill fps, bra.

 

:music_whistling:

[redtail]

yeah i totally agree with EtherealN and others here. The WH is simply awesome for it's quality,feel, accuracy, stability etc. I upgraded from the Cougar which I sold to help pay for the WH. The bottom line is...is it within YOUR budget, if not, go with whatever is. But to try to explain how useless it is for anything other than A10 is ridiculous! Just say "I can't afford it right now" or "it's not worth spending that amount to ME". That said....I've only used it in DCS A-10 so far, but I'm sure I'll be using it with other aircraft IF I ever pull myself away from the HOG :)

Best damn HOTAS I've ever used.....love the precision of the hall sensors and the throttle detents!

Edited April 27, 2011 by redtail

[EtherealN]

i'm talking strictly about engine improvements. a10 features will be for a10, so they can do it now or later, it won't affect black shark.

 

Seriously, I wish people who have never written a line of code would stop making assumptions about how easy it is to do things. :P

 

The point of the DCS:BS upgrade patch when/if it is made is to make the two MP compatible with each other (granting DCS:BS features from the updated codebase). So they'll fly in the same skies. Meaning what the A-10 does will affect the BS.

 

What you are asking for is basically to have ED bunnyhopping between patches as one thing breaks the other and so on.

 

ED does things in a careful and controlled manner. That is what translates into quality. ;)

[oritpro]

Seriously, I wish people who have never written a line of code would stop making assumptions about how easy it is to do things. :P

 

The point of the DCS:BS upgrade patch when/if it is made is to make the two MP compatible with each other (granting DCS:BS features from the updated codebase). So they'll fly in the same skies. Meaning what the A-10 does will affect the BS.

 

What you are asking for is basically to have ED bunnyhopping between patches as one thing breaks the other and so on.

 

ED does things in a careful and controlled manner. That is what translates into quality. ;)

 

if (DCS:BS && DCS:A10 != Compatible)

{

MakeCompatible();

MakePatch();

DistributePatch();

}

 

 

There, what's so hard about that? ;)

[jeffyd123]

I had a little bit of subtle sarcasm on there. I found it hard to believe some of these simmers dont already have a TIR .

 

 

I tried flying without one for many years. I also tried freetrack and facetrack... both suck... a lot. I finally broke down and got my TIR this year and it actually is rather fantastic! LOL.

 

side story... I fix PCs in the field all day and I met the engineer that natural point contracted with to design the TIR boards. the guy works out of his modest home in Oregon and had no idea what he has designed for us... he doesnt sim at all and is generally a fairly boring fellow. I tried and tried to sell him on the idea of simming and he wasnt even a tiny bit interested.

 

Its funny how I meet people that I would think would love simming (intelligent, engineer, nerdo types) and despite my years of trying to talk them into it they never ever bite.

 

people are funny... they would rather spend their free time watching the bleeding-rectal-shit on cable than do something to challenge themselves... I can see it in their eyes, they fear the idea of changing their routines.

[jeffyd123]

if (DCS:BS && DCS:A10 != Compatible)

{

MakeCompatible();

MakePatch();

DistributePatch();

}

 

 

There, what's so hard about that? ;)

 

 

uh oh... i wouldnt tug on old ethereal's cape too hard there buuuuuuddy. he'll turn you to dust or take away your 401K or something. LOL. Avert your eyes!

 

:worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy:

Edited April 27, 2011 by jeffyd123

[EtherealN]

if (DCS:BS && DCS:A10 != Compatible)

{

MakeCompatible();

MakePatch();

DistributePatch();

}

 

 

There, what's so hard about that? ;)

 

I know you're being funny, but: then make further patch for DCS:A10 and suddenly they're not compatible anymore. Then you have to patch DCS:BS yet again. The mistake is thinking that they would be immune to incompatibilities just because DCS:BS wouldn't have the A-10C cockpit and systems, but this is false: all of those things act in the same simulation and they must agree totally with each other. Otherwise bad things happen.

 

Patching DCS:BS right now, with stuff still planned for DCS:A-10, would mean that ED faces two choices:

 

1 - Feature-freeze DCS:A-10C

2 - Resign themselves to having to double-patch both yet again.

 

Choice number one is not something people want. Choice two adds great expense for ED. But that was indeed a false dichotomy since there was another option at the beginning:

 

3 - Wait with patching DCS:BS, continue work on DCS:A-10 until there is a good cutoff point, and THEN upgrade DCS:BS. This allows the DCS:BS patch to be worked on with a stationary target - and just like shooting at a stationary target is easier than a moving one, programming (and testing) towards a stationary target is a lot easier than for a moving one. Except in this case - learning to lead a moving target with a rifle is relatively easy. Learning to lead a moving target in programming is extremely difficult.

 

Ask a software engineer how he likes it when specifications change mid-implementation. You'll not get an enthusiastic reply. ;)

[oritpro]

I know you're being funny, but: then make further patch for DCS:A10 and suddenly they're not compatible anymore. Then you have to patch DCS:BS yet again. The mistake is thinking that they would be immune to incompatibilities just because DCS:BS wouldn't have the A-10C cockpit and systems, but this is false: all of those things act in the same simulation and they must agree totally with each other. Otherwise bad things happen.

 

Patching DCS:BS right now, with stuff still planned for DCS:A-10, would mean that ED faces two choices:

 

1 - Feature-freeze DCS:A-10C

2 - Resign themselves to having to double-patch both yet again.

 

Choice number one is not something people want. Choice two adds great expense for ED. But that was indeed a false dichotomy since there was another option at the beginning:

 

3 - Wait with patching DCS:BS, continue work on DCS:A-10 until there is a good cutoff point, and THEN upgrade DCS:BS. This allows the DCS:BS patch to be worked on with a stationary target - and just like shooting at a stationary target is easier than a moving one, programming (and testing) towards a stationary target is a lot easier than for a moving one. Except in this case - learning to lead a moving target with a rifle is relatively easy. Learning to lead a moving target in programming is extremely difficult.

 

Ask a software engineer how he likes it when specifications change mid-implementation. You'll not get an enthusiastic reply. ;)

 

I was being funny and I know the pain that's involved, I am a Network Validation Engineer by trade, for the same company that made your CPU. I live in ring 0 and work with software engineers all day long.

 

I also code applications that pertain to my job as well as others in my organization.

 

Debugging drivers is one thing, debugging apps is another, still we have similar jobs.

Edited April 27, 2011 by oritpro

[RigorMortis]

Ok guys. I've just order TrackIR. Looks really helpful because Im tired of Pressing C + LCtrl to look around all the time.

 

HOTAS Warthog controller also looks really cool. Unfortunately half a grand for a controller is really steep. That's the price you should charge the government, not civilians. I'll have to find something in between. :( Maybe CH Products? Will research now...

 

CH is a good option. I own the FighterStick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals for a good six or seven years now. Granted haven't touched it much in the last three. You should be able to get that setup for ~ $300.

Edited April 27, 2011 by RigorMortis

[Teriander]

Im using a Logitech Attack 3! Haha. My TrackIR should come in tomorrow. I would get a TM Hotas Warthog, but my wife would kill me for spending half a grand. Any rich Simers out there want to help a fellow simer? :) I'd do it for you...

[dunadan]

Seriously, I wish people who have never written a line of code would stop making assumptions about how easy it is to do things. :P

 

1st rule of software engineering - its always easy to have someone else modify their code.

[EtherealN]

I was being funny and I know the pain that's involved, I am a Network Validation Engineer by trade, for the same company that made your CPU. I live in ring 0 and work with software engineers all day long.

 

I also code applications that pertain to my job as well as others in my organization.

 

Debugging drivers is one thing, debugging apps is another, still we have similar jobs.

 

Yeah, I figured that - I hope I managed to get through that I didn't really mean to attack you with my response, merely just use it as an opportunity to elaborate for those who might not be familiar with these things. If I didn't manage that - my apologies.

 

And wow, debugging drivers... I don't want your job. :D

[EtherealN]

Im using a Logitech Attack 3! Haha. My TrackIR should come in tomorrow. I would get a TM Hotas Warthog, but my wife would kill me for spending half a grand. Any rich Simers out there want to help a fellow simer? :) I'd do it for you...

 

Only reason I can afford all the extravagant hardware I buy (not only the PC - spare smartphones and crap like that too :P ) is that I'm a permanent bachelor with no ambition of getting kids. Anything that might threaten the blingy nature of my mancave (actually, it's a command center!) is evil by definition. :)

 

The TrackIR will change your life though. It really is awesome and does make wonders for your SA. My experience was that before I got mine, I really didn't figure I actually needed it. I did fine with dogfights in IL2 by using the mouse in the left hand. But when DCS:BS came along I decided I wanted something to look around in the cockpit with, and now I can't imagine doing any flying without it unless it's in a real aircraft. (And as an aside: one of the first times I used a TrackIR was in the simulator we used in flight school.)

 

Also, you'll have a lot of fun when you forget you're wearing the reflectors and the delivery man or random people in the mall look at you funny. :D

[RigorMortis]

Yeah reflectors... lol. Freak!

 

Better than the dot on your forehead from early TrackIR's. lol.

 

Although wonder with the Xbox 360 kinect software if that will make its way to PC so no headgear is required.

[112th_Rossi]

Ask a software engineer how he likes it when specifications change mid-implementation. You'll not get an enthusiastic reply

 

This is why my desk at work leans to one side and I have gone through four keyboards in as many months!

[Moa]

Yeah reflectors... lol. Freak!

 

Better than the dot on your forehead from early TrackIR's. lol.

 

Although wonder with the Xbox 360 kinect software if that will make its way to PC so no headgear is required.

 

Why use a Kinect? There are solutions that require only a measly webcam and the two CPU cores that DCS isn't using (assuming you have a quad or sextuple Core). For example, see "Predator better than Kinect":

http://www.i-programmer.info/news/105-artificial-intelligence/2310-predator-better-than-kinect.html

 

That's only the tip of the iceberg - there are a lot of free and open-source tracking solutions emerging. Most of them are here now, so no need to hold your breath for Kinect.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Also, you'll have a lot of fun when you forget you're wearing the reflectors and the delivery man or random people in the mall look at you funny. :D

:D :thumbup: I know how you feel ;)