Total HUD Failure in Flight, Well Into Mission

[ErichVon]

I downloaded DRAGONs "The_Dam" mission and was playing in Multiplayer on my own LAN.

 

(I get more random failures flying this mission solo online than with a bunch of guys on another or their server. I am figuring still random failures occur but spread out over the various pilots flying so it is less likely to happen to me.)

 

I took two SAM targets out from 20,000 feet or so. Full airbrakes about 250 mph to 8,000 feet, retracted air brakes looking for the convoy attacking the FARP flying too low.

 

I took no hits, no damage---lost my HUD. CPU was at 19% on my 4 core system. RAM was at about 75% of 6 GB. My GTX 260 has just about 1 Gig of video memory. I do not know how much video ram I was using.

 

I hit F2 and looked all over the aircraft, I saw no damage.

 

I kind of did a quick browse search through the online manual but did not even find this failure. It might be in the manual, though.

 

All I want to know is... Can I fix this HUD failure in flight? And if so, how?

 

The analog flight instruments got me home OK. But it is rather hard to target ground targets without the HUD.

 

So RTB.

 

In another mission I totally lost all avionics from battle damage and still landed OK.

 

Other posts I found here, but no solution:

===========================

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=60125&highlight=Lost+HUD

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=59144&highlight=HUD+Failure

 

 

Advanced Search: "HUD Failure" (without the quotation marks)

=========================================

http://forums.eagle.ru/search.php?searchid=3490885

 

 

:pilotfly:

Edited May 26, 2011 by ErichVon

[Speed]

This is just the random failure generator rolling true. HUD failures happen a lot. After having none this month, I had two this weekend. We'll finally get the option of turning this off with the release of 1.1.0.8, so there is hope on the horizon for those of us tired of these annoyances.

[WarriorX]

Erich, were the MFCD's working?

[Frostiken]

Sometimes using external views or alt-tabbing will cause bits of the aircraft to stop rendering.

 

You can fix it by doing ctrl-alt-del which should re-render the cockpit, that is if it doesn't crash the game completely either...

[711Hancer]

Im curious what is the probability of failures in RL?

[WarriorX]

It's a long shot, but I was wondering if he chopped his throttles in the dive, and in doing so, lost his left engine. Many primary electrical functions run off the left engine/generator.

[Frostiken]

Im curious what is the probability of failures in RL?

 

That's a loaded question, really. There's all kinds of different problems that go wrong.

 

A-10s tend to be a little less problematic on the LRU side of the house (meaning actual units that you replace in the aircraft, like the CICU), but because they're almost all so old, they tend to have a lot of wiring problems.

 

One big issue the game has with avionics failures is that in real life you rarely have 'It works or it doesn't' scenarios. A problem with your MFCD won't manifest itself in the form of a completely useless screen, but could perhaps instead result in a scrunched display, or loss of a color channel. You could also experience video-related failures in the form of, perhaps, losing Maverick video from station 3 due to failure of pylon wiring.

 

Additionally, some failures are not always absolute. Your HUD could blank out, but only do so under 2Gs or more. Your EGI may shit the bed, but simply cycling it off for a minute and then letting it realign may be enough to get it functional again without resorting to HARS.

 

Paulkiriirirririiii could get us code 2 / code 3 rates from P&S, though they won't detail the kinds of failures, only how often you should expect failures.

 

I will tell you this - expect it to be VERY high. You people who think you can fly these kinds of aircraft three, four, six-plus sorties in a row without a random failure are dreaming. Modern aircraft are heaps of useless shit as far as maintenance goes. To put it into perspective, an F-15E can barely make two sorties without having a major system degrading or failing.

[Nu-NRG]

To put it into perspective, an F-15E can barely make two sorties without having a major system degrading or failing.

OMG. Was F14 really that bad as peps are saying. Maintenance wise :P

[Smokin Hole]

Anyway, the random failures were an example of Pure Simulation taken too far. They could also put an 18 hole golf course next to each airbase and require us to play a round between sorties. It would hardly make the game more enjoyable, immersive, etc.

[GGTharos]

It's an example of people asking for it, and ED giving it to them. There's nothing 'too far' about it. And it ended up exactly as was predicted, too: People whining about it after saying 'cool' the first time or two.

 

Anyway, the random failures were an example of Pure Simulation taken too far.

[Frostiken]

Well, that's why you're putting in sissy mode.

 

Me, I'm sticking with it.

 

 

By the way, I have some info for the peeps out there who think every aircraft always flies with everything working 100%. Here's the kind of problems our jets landed with today after a 1-hour sortie. Keep in mind these are F-15Es which are enormous black holes of money when it comes to maintenance but regardless....

 

- Analog airspeed indicator indicated 30-50 knots high.

- Theater cart wouldn't seat properly, could not use maps in-flight.

- FDL wouldn't enter net (no JTRS for you!).

- Landing light burned out.

- Could not start #1 engine.

- OWS erroneously reported Over-G events constantly, even straight and level flight. Recorded 12.5 G event at some point (!).

- AFCS / CAS BIT failure, reported failure codes and messages in-flight.

 

I would happily pay for an expansion for all DCS modules that would go 'above and beyond' in terms of modeling, such as:

 

- Realistic ATC.

- Ground crews and 'redball' maintenance.

- Dynamic campaigns (to include asset tracking, so you can't load up with 45,000 lbs of weapons every flight, or you'll run out of Mavericks!)

- Enhanced 'immersion', ie: campaign GUI and such works a bit more fluidly so it doesn't feel like just a series of single missions.

- More detailed failures so they run the gambit from full failures (like now) to minor annoyances (ie: lots of interference on radios).

Edited May 27, 2011 by Frostiken

[ErichVon]

Erich, were the MFCD's working?

 

Yes, both.

 

:pilotfly:

Edited May 27, 2011 by ErichVon

[ErichVon]

It's a long shot, but I was wondering if he chopped his throttles in the dive, and in doing so, lost his left engine. Many primary electrical functions run off the left engine/generator.

 

Had both engines, but yes throttles full back, full dive/air brakes or whatever they are called, gear up. I did not overspeed, was maintaining 250 mph on the descent.

 

HUD went blank flying around about tree top level looking for the enemy, advancing convoy. AND since I first posted this, HUD blanked out again, different mission, well into the mission, no battle damage.

 

I have 896 MB of video ram, GTX 260, 216 core.

 

I will have to see whether I can use weapon systems without using the HUD, trial and error.

 

Thanks.

 

:pilotfly:

Edited May 27, 2011 by ErichVon

[mvsgas]

- Ground crews and 'redball' maintenance.

 

:huh: To each his own but Really?!:D What's next QA?, -60? Tow crews? :thumbup::joystick:

[MustangSally]

As per my RAAF days...

 

Pre-flight A/C and have ready one hour prior to crew arriving

 

Toolboard check and sign off

 

Maintenance Log signed off by Flight Line SNCO incl sigs by Airframe/Engine and Avionics Techs.

 

Pilot signs for A/C

 

Pilot completes preflight.....:music_whistling:

 

:smilewink:

[ErichVon]

That's a loaded question, really. There's all kinds of different problems that go wrong.

 

A-10s tend to be a little less problematic on the LRU side of the house (meaning actual units that you replace in the aircraft, like the CICU), but because they're almost all so old, they tend to have a lot of wiring problems.

 

One big issue the game has with avionics failures is that in real life you rarely have 'It works or it doesn't' scenarios. A problem with your MFCD won't manifest itself in the form of a completely useless screen, but could perhaps instead result in a scrunched display, or loss of a color channel. You could also experience video-related failures in the form of, perhaps, losing Maverick video from station 3 due to failure of pylon wiring.

 

Additionally, some failures are not always absolute. Your HUD could blank out, but only do so under 2Gs or more. Your EGI may shit the bed, but simply cycling it off for a minute and then letting it realign may be enough to get it functional again without resorting to HARS.

 

Paulkiriirirririiii could get us code 2 / code 3 rates from P&S, though they won't detail the kinds of failures, only how often you should expect failures.

 

I will tell you this - expect it to be VERY high. You people who think you can fly these kinds of aircraft three, four, six-plus sorties in a row without a random failure are dreaming. Modern aircraft are heaps of useless shit as far as maintenance goes. To put it into perspective, an F-15E can barely make two sorties without having a major system degrading or failing.

 

In real life, do the maintenance techs actually rewire a system component in the hanger?

 

OR do they pull the unit and send it out to some civilian Air Force support unit off-site?

 

I know a guy that works to one of the civilian US Navy submarine support sites, and he told me in generalities, they pull the bad units of whatever, and the electronic techs rebuild them on the bench. I imagine they would send out civilian specialties to a fleet operating sub out to sea to do any real re-wiring issues.

 

I do not mind the in-flight failures in the sim. What pisses me off is, I usually have to RTB to get it fixed in the middle of a mission. It would be nice to know how to fix stuff in-flight.

 

:pilotfly:

[ErichVon]

As per my RAAF days...

 

Pre-flight A/C and have ready one hour prior to crew arriving

 

Toolboard check and sign off

 

Maintenance Log signed off by Flight Line SNCO incl sigs by Airframe/Engine and Avionics Techs.

 

Pilot signs for A/C

 

Pilot completes preflight.....:music_whistling:

 

:smilewink:

 

I was Navy Reserve Seabees for a lot of years in the 1970's. I volunteered for a remodeling job in Cuba, Gitmo, for my 2 weeks training. I am a good carpenter, I was always going somewhere to fix something. Training my azz!

 

Arrived north of Philadelphia to Willow Grove Naval Air Station in the wee hours before dawn. Most of our waiting to go, is as you say, as to pre-flight checkout. Once airborne in that converted old sub hunter, 4 engine, prop job, way out over sea, we had two smoking engines that our in-flight crew chief was very concerned about to the point of considering ditching. Kind of discerning seeing life rafts hanging from the interior bulkheads and everybody had a Mae-West type life preserver in our seats (52 guys went out of our 600 man battalion). Heck, we all had, had basic at sea survival training.

 

"Not to worry, this plane floats the longest of any Navy plane in the inventory", is what we were told. We made it to Cuba, 7 hour flight at 10,000 feet.

 

One of another crew were not so lucky, they flew to Bermuda, then got a jet passenger plane to Gitmo.

 

I think the Reserve planes need a little bit Tender-Loving-Care.

 

:pilotfly:

[ErichVon]

Well, that's why you're putting in sissy mode.

 

Me, I'm sticking with it.

 

 

By the way, I have some info for the peeps out there who think every aircraft always flies with everything working 100%. Here's the kind of problems our jets landed with today after a 1-hour sortie. Keep in mind these are F-15Es which are enormous black holes of money when it comes to maintenance but regardless....

 

- Analog airspeed indicator indicated 30-50 knots high.

- Theater cart wouldn't seat properly, could not use maps in-flight.

- FDL wouldn't enter net (no JTRS for you!).

- Landing light burned out.

- Could not start #1 engine.

- OWS erroneously reported Over-G events constantly, even straight and level flight. Recorded 12.5 G event at some point (!).

- AFCS / CAS BIT failure, reported failure codes and messages in-flight.

 

I would happily pay for an expansion for all DCS modules that would go 'above and beyond' in terms of modeling, such as:

 

- Realistic ATC.

- Ground crews and 'redball' maintenance.

- Dynamic campaigns (to include asset tracking, so you can't load up with 45,000 lbs of weapons every flight, or you'll run out of Mavericks!)

- Enhanced 'immersion', ie: campaign GUI and such works a bit more fluidly so it doesn't feel like just a series of single missions.

- More detailed failures so they run the gambit from full failures (like now) to minor annoyances (ie: lots of interference on radios).

 

Hi,

 

As to sissy mode:

 

Sim or not, this is still a game. I always fly in SIM mode, but I add a few cheat perks. I do fly with a squad that will not allow sissy mode, sometimes, and they run a mission as real as possible and rely on the network function on the TAD.

 

I especially like the F7 key to get a feel, cycling through enemy positions to find where enemy is within a city. I have to look around a bit in zoom-out to kind of figure where they are hiding as to their local terrain, then figure out about where they may be hiding.

 

In Aces High (http://www.hitechcreations.com/) training mode, we got exterior views. But in game, on their servers, the fighters had no sissy mode exterior views. You get damaged, the only way to see it was to rerun the video tape afterwards. The precision, level bombers had exterior views in game mode for some reason.

 

I want to see pilots that eject, the ability to get rescued. The ability to eject over an enemy position and call in air strikes like that guy did in Bat-21 would also be nice and give the pilot a laser designator and radio. LOL!

 

They need one big company owned server and a BIG map and the availability of squad against squad in a month long battle ops is on my wish list, like WWII Online and Warbirds.

 

:pilotfly:

[Bucic]

It's an example of people asking for it, and ED giving it to them. There's nothing 'too far' about it. And it ended up exactly as was predicted, too: People whining about it after saying 'cool' the first time or two.

Why not use an already proven method of failures probability scaling? It can be found in rFactor, for example. It's really straight forward:

 

G - in-game probability of failure

R - real probability of failure

s - scale factor, user defined

s_a - scale factor, automatic

t_r - rough total time of a real race

t_g - rough total time of an in-game race

 

For manual scale factor setting (user defined):

G = s*R

 

For automatic scale factor:

G = s_a*R = t_r/t_g*R

 

Universal approach, obviously:

G = s*s_a*R

 

 

 

t_r and t_g can be replaced by number of laps, accordingly. In case of a flight simulator it may be:

 

t_r = [real minimum amount of flight hours required to be qualified to execute a given mission] + [estimated real amount of flight hours between previous missions] + [flight hours during previously executed missions]

 

t_g = [current in-game total flight hours]

 

 

 

 

No data on the airframe needed, e.g. airframe flight hours, servicing etc.!

 

EDIT:

 

Example:

Probability of random engine failure during a real 60 laps race equals X. Your in-game race is set to comprise of only 6 laps. The probability of random engine failure during your short in-game race also equals X.

 

This would also finally make sense to do pre-flight checks.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Bucic

[GGTharos]

^^^^

 

Interesting :) I'll point Yo-Yo to it, though I think they're more interested in real failures :)

[Toadster]

It's an example of people asking for it, and ED giving it to them. There's nothing 'too far' about it. And it ended up exactly as was predicted, too: People whining about it after saying 'cool' the first time or two.

 

Agreed with GGTharos...

 

I'm an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer IRL and snags in flight do happen. I have never worked on the A-10, so I cannot speak on it's particular serviceability rate of course. Yes, stuff can happen in flight during a mission and while losing the HUD is an annoyance, the mission itself is probably over to a certain degree. You then have to RTB to get fixed, just like IRL.

 

My point is, if you get battle damage, is it not the same thing and you would have to RTB (depending on the rate of damage of course)? Or is the snag "accepted" because someone flew where they shouldn't have been and decided to be OK with the consequences? For example, I see far too many guys going for GUNZ in a very hot AAA environment, where a sweet CBU would have done the trick from a higher distance. I guess it all depends on how far any of us are willing to take the Sim seriously.

 

Remember, knowing how to Navigate via "Steam Gauges" is just as important as knowing how to expend ordnance, if not more so. I'm not saying anyone here doesn't know how, it's just always in the back of my mind to know where I want to go in case the HUD is knocked (goes back to the LOMAC days).

 

:pilotfly:

 

S!

[Bucic]

Toadster,

 

Always good to see a real-life specialist but I don't see anything relevant to possibly overzealous failures handling, in your post. The fact that we should rule out any cases involving battle damage is rather obvious.

[MagnumHB]

Or is the snag "accepted" because someone flew where they shouldn't have been and decided to be OK with the consequences?

Essentially, yes. Regardless of the depth and detail, at its heart, this is still a game that we play to have fun. The player has a mostly direct influence on whether they receive battle damage or not. This makes avoiding and handling battle damage part of the accepted risk and reward (and by extension, fun) inherent in this, or any other good game. In contrast, the game randomly deciding that you should be combat ineffective before you even get to the combat area is outside of the player's control, and therefore perceived by most people as the game giving you the finger instead of a reasonable gaming challenge.

[=Panther=]

I would happily pay for an expansion for all DCS modules that would go 'above and beyond' in terms of modeling, such as:

 

- Ground crews and 'redball' maintenance.

- More detailed failures so they run the gambit from full failures (like now) to minor annoyances (ie: lots of interference on radios).

If that was added, cool but I can see the threads now.... My JFS fails to run HELP?! Did you tell your CC to get the T-Handle and pump away? LOL oh the days of Viper Maintenance.

 

LOL Being there for those redballs and trying to get that aircraft airborne for "this oh so important training mission". If it's so important why did you call me, knowing I'm going to red X it?

[MegOhm_SD]

I downloaded DRAGONs "The_Dam" mission and was playing in Multiplayer on my own LAN.

 

(I get more random failures flying this mission solo online than with a bunch of guys on another or their server. I am figuring still random failures occur but spread out over the various pilots flying so it is less likely to happen to me.)

 

I took two SAM targets out from 20,000 feet or so. Full airbrakes about 250 mph to 8,000 feet, retracted air brakes looking for the convoy attacking the FARP flying too low.

 

I took no hits, no damage---lost my HUD. CPU was at 19% on my 4 core system. RAM was at about 75% of 6 GB. My GTX 260 has just about 1 Gig of video memory. I do not know how much video ram I was using.

 

I hit F2 and looked all over the aircraft, I saw no damage.

 

I kind of did a quick browse search through the online manual but did not even find this failure. It might be in the manual, though.

 

All I want to know is... Can I fix this HUD failure in flight? And if so, how?

 

The analog flight instruments got me home OK. But it is rather hard to target ground targets without the HUD.

 

So RTB.

 

In another mission I totally lost all avionics from battle damage and still landed OK.

 

Other posts I found here, but no solution:

===========================

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=60125&highlight=Lost+HUD

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=59144&highlight=HUD+Failure

 

 

Advanced Search: "HUD Failure" (without the quotation marks)

=========================================

http://forums.eagle.ru/search.php?searchid=3490885

 

 

:pilotfly:

I have had this happen a couple of times. There is a button behind the stick you can push to get the HUD back. I forget the name of it. It is just right of the knob on left. You can see it if you have TIR