Su-27, Su-33 or MiG-29?

[RIPTIDE]

You wont with a fast IFF check, just switch the radar on for less than a second see if there is any F popping up and then turn it off again, the bandit wont get any lock warning.

Does this still work in FC2.0? Because I have my doubts. I have tried it with a wingy and he confirmed a lock warning some time ago. :unsure:

[Cali]

Does this still work in FC2.0? Because I have my doubts. I have tried it with a wingy and he confirmed a lock warning some time ago. :unsure:

 

I think it works sometimes just like when a EOS lock gives a warning tone to the person you have locked sometimes.

[FLANKERATOR]

Does this still work in FC2.0? Because I have my doubts. I have tried it with a wingy and he confirmed a lock warning some time ago. :unsure:

 

It does work RIP, just like in 1.12, the difference however is that EOS lock in FC2 is much more sensitive than in 1.12 in term of bandit's aspect, meaning it takes much less now for the radar to "automaticelly" take over the Lock when the bandit is changing the aspect. It's easily recognizable as the 'T' vanishes from the HUD while 'I' pops up when that happens.

 

This is a serious limitation to 'stealth' intercepts based on EOS in FC2, hence it can be used effectively to 'check' if you are stalked before recommitting after a defensive extension, all you have to do is to turn roughly 20degres with a bank angle under 30degres to force your pursuer's radar to turn on automatically. There is nothing much you can do about it, maybe this is just how the Russian radar's software is prioritizing tracking systems in FC2, or maybe EOS system being weaker than in FC1.

 

Good news is that even caught, you can most of the time override manually the EOS to get that 'T' back before firing an ET, hoping the bandit is over-banking while turning back with a dead RWR.

[RIPTIDE]

It does work RIP, just like in 1.12,

Lets be clear. We're talking about a quick IFF check on a bandit in EOS lock. I did it when I was trailing a wingy once. Tapped the radar on and off as quick as my finger works. He got the warning straight away. Maybe it works sometimes..

[FLANKERATOR]

Strange because I have tested IFF check with my wingy also few times and he got no lock warning as long as he kept level flight. As for EOS loosing lock and radar taking over, it was more to see if other are experiencing the same in FC2.

[Boberro]

I noticed you can silently check IFF if on your HUD you have selected IR missiles. After I changed weapons to radar (example ER), teammate got warning.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Boberro

[RIPTIDE]

I noticed you can silently check IFF if on your HUD you have selected IR missiles. After I changed weapons to radar (example ER), teammate got warning.

Ah right.

[Frostie]

This has derailed into a n0ob thread :D

Maybe we should have it made a sticky.

 

I better not fly for a while, I feel a 'laughs last' TK coming up.

[Vekkinho]

It does work RIP, just like in 1.12, the difference however is that EOS lock in FC2 is much more sensitive than in 1.12 in term of bandit's aspect, meaning it takes much less now for the radar to "automaticelly" take over the Lock when the bandit is changing the aspect. It's easily recognizable as the 'T' vanishes from the HUD while 'I' pops up when that happens.

 

This is a serious limitation to 'stealth' intercepts based on EOS in FC2, hence it can be used effectively to 'check' if you are stalked before recommitting after a defensive extension, all you have to do is to turn roughly 20degres with a bank angle under 30degres to force your pursuer's radar to turn on automatically. There is nothing much you can do about it, maybe this is just how the Russian radar's software is prioritizing tracking systems in FC2, or maybe EOS system being weaker than in FC1.

 

Good news is that even caught, you can most of the time override manually the EOS to get that 'T' back before firing an ET, hoping the bandit is over-banking while turning back with a dead RWR.

 

NOw that you've brought it up, IMHO it's a BS. Dunno why this was implemented with FC2, perhaps to help guys from losing EOS track or to level things out a bit for less ET and 73 silent kills.

 

It's fishy at least!

 

EOS and Radar are not linked at all meaning there's no automated radar activation in case of IR signal diminish. At least not IRL. With MiG-29A 9.12 radar's off 'til you flick the switch - manually! There's radar panel located under the landing gear lever and you'll see a on/off toggle switch located under the lower rotary knob (radar modes-VS,BVR,Fi0). IIRC it spells излучение. If in off it's off no matter the EOS. Sometimes it even stays off with switch being on but that's another story!

 

HOwever selecting the VS thru rotary knob automatically turns on EOS...

Edited June 13, 2011 by Vekkinho

[RIPTIDE]

NOw that you've brought it up, IMHO it's a BS. Dunno why this was implemented with FC2, perhaps to help guys from losing EOS track or to level things out a bit for less ET and 73 silent kills.

 

It's fishy at least!

 

EOS and Radar are not linked at all meaning there's no automated radar activation in case of IR signal diminish. At least not IRL. With MiG-29A 9.12 radar's off 'til you flick the switch - manually! There's radar panel located under the landing gear lever and you'll see a on/off toggle switch located under the lower rotary knob (radar modes-VS,BVR,Fi0). IIRC it spells излучение. If in off it's off no matter the EOS. Sometimes it even stays off with switch being on but that's another story!

 

HOwever selecting the VS thru rotary knob automatically turns on EOS...

Whats used for range finding IRL beyond the laser range in EOS lock?

[FLANKERATOR]

NOw that you've brought it up, IMHO it's a BS. Dunno why this was implemented with FC2, perhaps to help guys from losing EOS track or to level things out a bit for less ET and 73 silent kills.

 

It's fishy at least!

 

EOS and Radar are not linked at all meaning there's no automated radar activation in case of IR signal diminish. At least not IRL. With MiG-29A 9.12 radar's off 'til you flick the switch - manually! There's radar panel located under the landing gear lever and you'll see a on/off toggle switch located under the lower rotary knob (radar modes-VS,BVR,Fi0). IIRC it spells излучение. If in off it's off no matter the EOS. Sometimes it even stays off with switch being on but that's another story!

 

HOwever selecting the VS thru rotary knob automatically turns on EOS...

 

Interesting information Vekkinho, I was wondering if radar was automatically activated in real to back up a weak IR signal...it's kinda ruining everything when stalking someone.

[combatace]

Well there are even problems with HUD.

Edited July 18, 2011 by combatace

[nscode]

That is 27SM

[Pilotasso]

Interesting information Vekkinho, I was wondering if radar was automatically activated in real to back up a weak IR signal...it's kinda ruining everything when stalking someone.

 

Whats used for range finding IRL beyond the laser range in EOS lock?

 

NOw that you've brought it up, IMHO it's a BS. Dunno why this was implemented with FC2, perhaps to help guys from losing EOS track or to level things out a bit for less ET and 73 silent kills.

 

It's fishy at least!

 

EOS and Radar are not linked at all meaning there's no automated radar activation in case of IR signal diminish. At least not IRL. With MiG-29A 9.12 radar's off 'til you flick the switch - manually! There's radar panel located under the landing gear lever and you'll see a on/off toggle switch located under the lower rotary knob (radar modes-VS,BVR,Fi0). IIRC it spells излучение. If in off it's off no matter the EOS. Sometimes it even stays off with switch being on but that's another story!

 

HOwever selecting the VS thru rotary knob automatically turns on EOS...

 

Strange because I have tested IFF check with my wingy also few times and he got no lock warning as long as he kept level flight. As for EOS loosing lock and radar taking over, it was more to see if other are experiencing the same in FC2.

 

Reading these posts, I almost get the impression that the EOS should be able to track targets like some sort of LIGHDAR except ED purposedly ruined this for the user.

 

Is anybody here with any degree of seriousness got the slightest technical information to back up the claim IR wouldnt be lost anyway? or you guys just assuming the worst possible scenario?

 

 

From where Im standing it appears to me the radar handover is nothing more than a game gimmick destined to make things easier to handle not harder.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Pilotasso

[Vekkinho]

From where Im standing it appears to me the radar handover is nothing more than a game gimmick destined to make things easier to handle not harder.

 

Like I said, if you track with OLS and lose it your radar won't magically pop in and retrack/relock! At least not with 9.12A(B). Radar can take over only if you emit along with OLS usage. But radar is off until you switch it on! To do so you must flick the switch - by using your left hand! It won't turn on by itself!

 

I think of this FC feature as a way of helping players be more deadly with RUSFOR fighters!

[Cali]

Things messed up with all jets, not much we can do about it. Just hope some things get fixed.

[FLANKERATOR]

Is anybody here with any degree of seriousness got the slightest technical information to back up the claim IR wouldnt be lost anyway? or you guys just assuming the worst possible scenario?

 

Nobody claimed EOS would not loose IR signal. As Vekkinho mentioned, the point was about the radar switching on automatically, therefore jeopardizing stealth engagements.

[Pilotasso]

I think the engagement would be jeopardized anyway if the target is lost all together and SA goes down. There is little point attempting them too far away, rather the atempt should be donne inside efective range.

[combatace]

Well its always tough to maintain lock a target on radar because at distance when opponent maneuvers the RCS changes and may tend to lose track because every angle of plane has different RCS. In short the radars of these planes are too simple and unrealistic.

[Cali]

I think the engagement would be jeopardized anyway if the target is lost all together and SA goes down. There is little point attempting them too far away, rather the atempt should be donne inside efective range.

 

The point in tracking them from far away is so they can get in a better position. When the radar switches on automatically and lets the pray know that someone locked them up, gives the stalker position away. Some people don't use radar online they just fly low in the hills with eos.

[Pilotasso]

Well its always tough to maintain lock a target on radar because at distance when opponent maneuvers the RCS changes and may tend to lose track because every angle of plane has different RCS. In short the radars of these planes are too simple and unrealistic.

 

These radars are somewhat short ranged according to what I have heard from smaller types like the APG-66 in comparisons. Howerver there is a huge margin for speculation when you dont know how they algoritms operate and cope with targets moves. For starters much of the radar handling in FC2 is manual. If you ask me as long as you manage the PRF for example I think the radars in lockon are infact too good dealing with aspect. I can time the my radars PRF so perfectly I can see a target at 20 miles turn 360º without losing lock sometimes... A tradtitinal mech array will lose lock 90º in aspect changes against the ground clutter because of 0 doppler efect.

I suspect most users dont give much importance to PRF handling anyway without exploring their radars to the max.

 

Another example in lockon is TWS/RWS sweep refresh: its nearly in realtime like an AESA unit. NOT so. :)

Edited July 19, 2011 by Pilotasso

[Sov13t]

The WCS of the 27/29 is rather complicated for it to be summarized in two-three sentences. The manuals for both aircraft are rather confusing in their language as well as secondary documents (supplemental systems manuals) sometimes conflict the aircraft manuals...

 

I can see how ED came to the conclusion of automatic radar acquisition and other simplifications, due to the various unclear statements in the manuals that can be interpreted as such.

 

Regardless, the EOS is a rather complicated system that from my limited understanding is deeply integrated into the overall weapons management of the Flanker/Fulcrum. There are such things as Primary and Secondary channels for weapon control and depending on the setting one backs up the other, and so on. But, I do agree that having EOS change to radar on you just because target aspect changed by 10 degrees is a big gimp to some tactical situations... it is equal to that of the F-15s home on jam gimp.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Sov13t

[Pilotasso]

The point in tracking them from far away is so they can get in a better position. When the radar switches on automatically and lets the pray know that someone locked them up, gives the stalker position away. Some people don't use radar online they just fly low in the hills with eos.

 

I know that, my point is: dont complain about radar auto handover at which ranges you shouldnt be trying EOS anyway. It will only work properly at shorter ranges than the ones people preffer using them at. The pilot must first keep the bandit on an expected position but that requires setting up the run with previous use of radar or have a wingman-GCI vectoring the attacker from an unexpected direction.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Pilotasso

[GGTharos]

@Soviet:

 

Exactly.

 

It is probably just a compromize between several factors for ED: The desire for more automation (prevalent in all fighters as time moves on), the lack of clickable pit, the fact that it is a survey sim, limitations for making separate systems for each aircraft in the code ...

 

For F-15 gimps, I think the worst one is the lack of antenna automation in TWS. The only reason I don't fly on public servers is that ERI is not allowed, and I'm an automated-radar cripple. :P (More to the point. I can't be bothered to ruin my SA by having to operate the antenna).

 

In any case, there are many things that -could- be improved, this is certainly true. As is, each aircraft has unique flaws and advantages that make DACT DACT in FC2.

[Cali]

Does anyone know how far the EOS can pick up a signature? Come on GG.....that is the only reason? Maybe the 104th will add ERI on their server and hopefully a R-77 carrying Su-33.