SA-13, The deadliest threat?

[J. Heller]

So I'm coming in to attack some tanks in one of the campaign missions and I get an SA-8 on the threat reciever. No big deal, I've had that 8 locked up on the TGP since recieving the JTAC data, he was easy to spot a ways behind the main assault force. I fire a Mav at it just I get a good lock and about 4 seconds later I see him launch a missle at me. I dont evade since the SA-8 relies on onboard vehicle guidance. The Mav hits and destroys him and his missle flys into the dirt. No more AA missle threats in the area, nothing significant anyhow, I pat myself on the back and begin to roll in on the armor. Boom, Boom, Boom! My aircraft is rocked by 3 hard hits at about 12k feet. No recovery from it I am forced to eject. I look around under the parachute and dont see any Migs or anything flying around so I think WTH was that?

 

In the mission debrief it says it was an SA-13 got me. Damn, how can you handle these things? They are IR missles with a range of about 16k feet so they will not show up on the RWR and unless you are lucky you wont find them with the TGP with any regularity(though I do find the SA-8's easily since they like to be somewhat close to the main aussault groups). I suppose staying up around 18k feet will work, but then how can you accurately drop a CBU on the armor? There is no SEAD support in this mission so I am kinda stuck. Fly around at 18k feet whilst looking for these things?

 

Also I noticed a problem with the radios in simple mode. If I contact JTAC I can not use any of the radio menus anymore until I cancel the vulch. Then I can contact my wingmen again. I would have to cancel the JTAC and then order my wingmen and then contact JTAC again, kind of a pain. I think I;m just going to stick with the Georgian Hammer Campaign since thats the only one with any measure of realism when it comes to SEAD, CAS and CAP aircraft flying with you in the mission.

[RodBorza]

Well, that's strange. Because in the sim, 10 K is more than enough to be away from Strelas. They usually are not a big real threat.

Maybe, you got yourself too focused on the first target and didn't noticed the second SAM. It can happen because mission designers have the bad habit of putting them in ambush positions. Very nasty, indeed.

[EtherealN]

First off, did your MWS not catch the launch?

 

As for how I handle them, I launch mavericks on them. :P Sure they can be hard to spot sometimes, but with the right attack profile and use of terrain you can often ditch back into cover (or just turn away and spam flares) as soon as the MWS goes off. With MWS on SEMI or AUTO it'll even analyze the launch for you and select an appropriate CMS program.

 

On the question of altitude, it all depends. About 10k feet, give or take, covers you, but obviously this depends on many factors - if your 10k is STD and not QFE you might inadvertedly run into their envelope while still thinking you're "safe".

[dbeaty]

Also I noticed a problem with the radios in simple mode. If I contact JTAC I can not use any of the radio menus anymore until I cancel the vulch. Then I can contact my wingmen again..

 

I had the same problem last week. Here on DCS forums I learned "TAB" steps back in the radio directory. Simple as that! (it's not that obvious) Cheers!

[J. Heller]

First off, did your MWS not catch the launch?

 

As for how I handle them, I launch mavericks on them. :P Sure they can be hard to spot sometimes, but with the right attack profile and use of terrain you can often ditch back into cover (or just turn away and spam flares) as soon as the MWS goes off. With MWS on SEMI or AUTO it'll even analyze the launch for you and select an appropriate CMS program.

 

On the question of altitude, it all depends. About 10k feet, give or take, covers you, but obviously this depends on many factors - if your 10k is STD and not QFE you might inadvertedly run into their envelope while still thinking you're "safe".

 

The SA-13 has a range of 5km, this equals roughly 16k feet, so its possible to get hit at 12k I suppose. Depending on the slant range... I recieved an MWS warning for the SA-8 I took out but never got anything on the SA-13 launch. CMS is always set to AUTO when entering a hostile area. I prefer altitude over terrain masking unless I am carrying rockets to deal with threats at very low altitudes and short ranges. My usual loadout is 6 AGM's and 4 CBU-97's so I generally stay high until I think its clear to roll in with the CBU's. I cant find the key map for dispensing chaff and flares under a manual or semi-auto program, can you tell me where to find it in the key commands list? Thanks.

[Hobnail]

You could swap over the 97's for 105s and stay high.

[genbrien]

You could swap over the 97's for 105s and stay high.

or GBU-38/ gbu-12 over 12k ft to avoid Sa-13

 

you know.... like a normal load :smartass::joystick:

[J. Heller]

True, but those GPS guided munitions are expensive;)

[RodBorza]

I cant find the key map for dispensing chaff and flares under a manual or semi-auto program, can you tell me where to find it in the key commands list? Thanks.

Look at the HOTAS command list. It will be the CMS Start/Stop Program command.

[genbrien]

True, but those GPS guided munitions are expensive;)

 

LOLLLL:megalol:

 

Do you know how much a GBU-97/105 cost??!!!

 

Go check and tell me if a GBU-38 or GBU-12 is more expensive :smilewink::thumbup:

[GGTharos]

I think the A-10 costs a little more than those.

At any rate, if you're carrying CBU's and you're worried about high altitude accuracy, ripple. There's no point in worrying about how terrible it is that you must do a single drop instead of 4 separate drops on 4 separate convoys. Get over that and move on with your work - it works out well ;)

[TAIPAN_]

A-10C is a high flying Hog :)

 

If there's no high alt SAMs then why not clear the danger with GBUs from up high and be untouchable for a while

[J. Heller]

LOLLLL:megalol:

 

Do you know how much a GBU-97/105 cost??!!!

 

Go check and tell me if a GBU-38 or GBU-12 is more expensive :smilewink::thumbup:

 

It was just a joke dude...I'm going to start carrying a couple of GBU-12's and make sure I scour the battlefield for hidden SAM units, sneaky bastards:thumbup:

[159th_Viper]

.....In the mission debrief it says it was an SA-13 got me. Damn, how can you handle these things?....

 

Keep an eye out in future - I'll have a look too but if your AN/AAR-47 did not pick up the launch and warn you accordingly there could be a bug. Did not save the track per chance?

 

In any event, at altitude you are going to be basically on top of them before they open up on you. Obviously only relevant in a near-miss situation, but if so, take note of your position, extend and start searching where you were: Chances are you'll find him not far off.

[Kenan]

How can Igla (MANPAD) see you if you're flying over 2km altitude?

Aren't they supposed to be visually guided towards the plane?

 

Even if they operate laser, a person still has to see the target in order to direct the missile, right?

 

So how can these things knock down a 7000 ft target at night?

[159th_Viper]

Igla-S (SA-24) is night-vision capable with an engagement range of 6000m and effective altitude of 3500m. Couple the Igla-S with the Strelets launcher system and you're toast.

 

As regards the SA-13, the Azov L-136 MAK-F IR detection/acquisition system upgrade gives the Strela inter alia effective night-time capability with a range of 15000m.......again, toast.

[Frostiken]

Eh, I still find SA-18s the deadliest. You have at best about four seconds to do something before it hits you, it's practically immune to flares, the launchers are impossible to find especially with the TPod, and they seem to do more damage to aircraft than even an AIM-120... I've never been hit by one and had less than half my airframe blown apart.

[159th_Viper]

Eh, I still find SA-18s the deadliest. You have at best about four seconds to do something before it hits you, it's practically immune to flares, the launchers are impossible to find especially with the TPod, and they seem to do more damage to aircraft than even an AIM-120... I've never been hit by one and had less than half my airframe blown apart.

 

As it should be :)

 

Flares will decoy the missile if used effectively with the appropriate evasive manoeuvring, provided you spotted the launch in time. Program the dispenser to release about 4 sets at a time - found that helps. As regards the difficulty of finding them, well, put yourself in the shoes of a rifleman with an A10 circling overhead: Don't know about you, but I'm gonna be making myself about as scarce as Rocking Horse shite........

 

Best bet is to maintain a safe ceiling if Intel has MANPAD's in the theatre. If you have to drop down, pre-emptive release of flares (single) with eyes on stalks and a wee prayer will see you straight 90% of the time. At times like those that I miss the Sukhogruz.......

[Kenan]

Igla-S (SA-24) is night-vision capable with an engagement range of 6000m and effective altitude of 3500m.

 

And how can it spot a fighter-sized target at day at 3km altitude?

[159th_Viper]

And how can it spot a fighter-sized target at day at 3km altitude?

 

Dzhigit MANPAD Pedestal Launcher - can interface with target designation equipment to supplement LOS targeting.

 

[Kenan]

^^Sorry, can you clarify?

 

So let's say I have a sniper rifle with optics. How am I supposed to locate a sparrow on the sky, flying at say 600m altitude? How am I supposed to know at which point in the sky and what moment to turn my optics in order to see that sparrow? Mind you, sky is big and optics deprive you of peripheral vision.

 

The docs I've seen on Strela always show a soldier firing at a low flying plane ie. establishing a visual contact.

 

Unless those MANPADS have a tracking radar of some sort to tell the operator to turn to a specific quadrant of the sky and look for target, I really don't know why in the game it's modelled in sucha a way it can locate, track and hit a fighter at a 7000ft (2km+ way beyond visual range).

 

I'm not saying you're wrong (probably are not) just need more information on the system in order to understand how it works.

[159th_Viper]

......Unless those MANPADS have a tracking radar of some sort to tell the operator to turn to a specific quadrant of the sky and look for target.....

 

That's the capability I mentioned - they have the capability of interfacing with other units that feed them targeting information. Unclear on exactly what units they interface with, but the capability remains.

 

 

......I really don't know why in the game it's modelled in such a a way it can locate, track and hit a fighter at a 7000ft (2km+ way beyond visual range).....

 

Well now that's a completely different story now isn't it :)

 

In-SIM we have to account for 'lack of intelligence' so to speak on behalf of the ground-units. At the best of times it's like plinking fish-in-a-barrel......they deserve any advantage they can get, even if it means a temporary suspension of disbelief in favour of the wee 'ol Stinger-man and even more so when it comes to fast-jets :P

[Yellonet]

Since when is 2 km BVR?

[LostOblivion]

LOLLLL:megalol:

 

Do you know how much a GBU-97/105 cost??!!!

 

Go check and tell me if a GBU-38 or GBU-12 is more expensive :smilewink::thumbup:

 

Wow, genbrien, I was thinking cluster bombs were expensive compared to lases guided and GPS guided ones, but SO MUCH?!?! Wow... According to wikipedia, a CBU-97 costs 360,000 usd over 70,000 for a GBU-12. Obviously those dispenser systems are pretty complicated and expensive compared to the guidance systems on those GBUs. Learn something every day... :)

[EtherealN]

LostOblivion, a CBU-97 isn't "just" a cluster bomb. It's a cluster bomb with smart bomblets. :P