[Poll] CCRP, CCIP, or CCIP-CR? and a question

[WildBillKelsoe]

Ahoy me mateys!!

 

Having practiced the GPB training mission on CCRP, CCIP, and CCIP-CR bombing, I wonder which is your preferred technique?

 

I prefer the old CCIP,

 

 

 

but I tend to get myself screwed under 1500 feet. Even with lowering thrust and getting the darn pipper boresighted in the middle of a mix of tanks, and trucks, still one time, I got damaged that I disliked the damage model (being on topside as well)...

 

I mean the whole purpose of CCRP

 

 

 

is not to pitch forward, yet the instructor tells it becomes latched and hatched or whatever and only appears by pitching nose down 5° and this rules out the low altitude level flight he claims...

 

Am I wrong?

 

I've yet to practice toss bombing...

Oh, and a friendly reminder: Never fly-upside down relying on trim. Moreover, never fly upside down in the first place...

Regards

Edited July 28, 2011 by WildBillKelsoe

[thisisentchris87]

I prefer CCRP, its simpler.

[gmohr]

CCRP is best used with a SPI. I don't personally see the point of CCRP-CR mode.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Just a correction: 5 mils is indeed with ccRp not Ip.. Yeah?

[splitter]

CCRP is best used with a SPI. I don't personally see the point of CCRP-CR mode.

 

I'm guessing CCIP-CR is used as a faster way to acquire a target. It may also be preferable to use if you aren't carrying a TGP on board with which to set the spi

[Eddie]

Whichever method is most suitable for the target/threat environment.

[GGTharos]

If you're getting 'screwed' below 1500' when you need CCRP, CCIP with a properly executed pop-up, or CCIP-CR which allows you to perform a little toss with less preparation than CCRP IMHO.

 

You don't need the TGP to deignate the target, use the HUD cursor.

[Bushmanni]

Dive bombing from 8000-15000 feet with CCIP has been the most accurate way to deliver dumb bombs from safe altitude for me. In calm weather I have been able to destroy a MBT with 90% accuracy with Mk-82s from 8000 feet.

[thaisocom]

It depends on the weapons I'm using and other condition as well.

[S77th-konkussion]

Whichever method is most suitable for the target/threat environment.

 

 

yeah that.

[rockyalexander]

I frequently fly without a TGP, so my common routine is to ground stabilize Mav sensor crosshairs on my target, line up my bomb reticle with the Mav reticle on my HUD, and drop bombs from about 18000 in CCIP-CR 3/9 mode.

 

Note to remember: after dropping a drop in CR mode, the Maverick will not fire. I can only assume that this is a bug. The workaround is to switch Master Mode to CCRP, which will allow the Mavs to fire.

Edited July 29, 2011 by rockyalexander

[GGTharos]

I would suggest setting what you locked up with the mav as SPI, drop a markpoint there, and then slave things to the markpoint.

[rockyalexander]

I didn't realize I could set the Mav sensor to SPI.

[WarriorX]

I frequently fly without a TGP, so my common routine is to ground stabilize Mav sensor crosshairs on my target, line up my bomb reticle with the Mav reticle on my HUD, and drop bombs from about 18000 in CCIP-CR 3/9 mode.

 

Note to remember: after dropping a drop in CR mode, the Maverick will not fire. I can only assume that this is a bug. The workaround is to switch Master Mode to CCRP, which will allow the Mavs to fire.

 

 

If I may ask, are you flying without the TGP by choice? The reason I ask, is because the TGP in my opinion, is one of the most valuable tools I have at my disposal on the airframe.

[rockyalexander]

It's just part of my training process. If you can become very proficient at locating, engaging, and destroying targets using dumb bombs without the benefit of a targeting pod, then once you have the pod along with PGMs you become that much more effective.

I also only use my right MFCD (A-10A style) and always locate JTAC-designated targets by manually inputting the coordinates as opposed to hooking the "cake."

Call me crazy, but it's just how I choose to train:)

I train boxers as a profession. Sometimes I'll duct tape a fighter's hands to his waist while he works defense against another who's free to punch away. After a few sessions, take the tape off and allow the guy to block with his hands in addition to his body movement...he'll be practically untouchable.

[BoneSaw]

You said which do you prefer. Well it all depends, CCRP is more accurate but CCIP is a whole lot more fun.

 

I selected CCRP for the accuracy but when I fly I use CCIP as much as possible because it's fun as hell. Dive pickle bank flare flare flare - Weeeeee :joystick:

Edited July 29, 2011 by BoneSaw
Spelling

[SmokeyTheLung]

It's just part of my training process. If you can become very proficient at locating, engaging, and destroying targets using dumb bombs without the benefit of a targeting pod, then once you have the pod along with PGMs you become that much more effective.

I also only use my right MFCD (A-10A style) and always locate JTAC-designated targets by manually inputting the coordinates as opposed to hooking the "cake."

Call me crazy, but it's just how I choose to train:)

I train boxers as a profession. Sometimes I'll duct tape a fighter's hands to his waist while he works defense against another who's free to punch away. After a few sessions, take the tape off and allow the guy to block with his hands in addition to his body movement...he'll be practically untouchable.

 

+1

[SmokeyTheLung]

A really good education on weapons release will start with backup mode HUD, depressable pipper settings, and a bombing table.

 

And thats why I fly the Stuka in IL2 Cliffs of Dover:)

[Laud]

I voted CCIP. Reason: While training CCIP approaches according to the Z-Diagrams from the Hawgsmoke.pdf it turned out to be pretty demanding in respect to precise flying. Once you come to the point where you manage to do propper 45° Dive Bomb attacks from 9.500' AGL (90° Roll-In, meeting all requested parameters (base alt, checkpoint alt, release alt, safe escape alt, speed) , hours of training pay off with a really pleasing feeling.

 

Another thing is the good precision, once propper executed.

 

And it's of course way more fun to work the aircraft and systems, instead of dropping bombs from level flight... ;)

[XarBat]

CCIP CR does not work. I also noticed that the targeting pod diamond on the HUD is way off from what is displayed on the TGP screen and the TGP HUD diamond seems to be where the bombs go.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I really have to run myself through CCIP attack profiles "by the numbers" some time. I've been getting so sloppy lately with parameters. CCIP is definately the most accurate bomb mode. CCRP with +/-5mil release constraint just shows how loose it is compared to a CCIP pipper dot 1 mil wide. 5 mils is 50' over 10,000'.

 

What about CCIP CR doesn't work?

 

I think I misunderstood the different bombing techniques. CCIP standard, is the 1 mil reticle (dive bomb). CCIP - CR 3/9 (Consent to Release = my approval to release once PBIL slider countdown reaches zero and centers inside the pipper). CCRP - CR 5 mils (Also consent to release but 5 mils rather than 3/9). I dont think CCIP is doable with 5 mils. Or maybe I cant switch the option via UFC/CR--> 5 / 3/9?

[nomdeplume]

I dont think CCIP is doable with 5 mils.

It wouldn't really make sense. Standard CCIP gives you a continuously computed impact point. There's no reason for that impact point to be anything other than a point on the ground. Granted, the system won't calculate the precise point down to the millimeter, but neither is it calculating a range of possible impact points - it's just doing the best it can to say "this is where the bomb will land if you release it now". Making that location "5 mil" doesn't make any sense, in that there's no gain from asking the aircraft to indicate a position on the ground that's 5 mil in size.

 

The 5 mil or 3/9 cues only come into effect when you're no longer instantly dropping a bomb, but instead asking the avionics to guide you to a point where if you release the bomb, it'll land at a particular pre-designated location. That's where the "fudge factor" comes from, since getting the airplane into the precise position where your bomb will strike a particular pinpoint on the ground would be nigh impossible. So, 5 mil requests the aircraft only release the bomb if you're pretty close to the right spot, and 3/9 requests to release the bomb if you're even vaguely in the right neighbourhood.

[TwoLate]

I frequently fly without a TGP, so my common routine is to ground stabilize Mav sensor crosshairs on my target, line up my bomb reticle with the Mav reticle on my HUD, and drop bombs from about 18000 in CCIP-CR 3/9 mode.

 

Note to remember: after dropping a drop in CR mode, the Maverick will not fire. I can only assume that this is a bug. The workaround is to switch Master Mode to CCRP, which will allow the Mavs to fire.

 

 

I think in the profile for mavericks it is CCRP which is why it will not fire in CCIP. Not sure in real life but that is the way it is in sim.

[rockyalexander]

Actually, the Maverick will fire with no problem in either CCIP or CCRP mode, just not after dropping a bomb with CR active.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I frequently fly without a TGP, so my common routine is to ground stabilize Mav sensor crosshairs on my target, line up my bomb reticle with the Mav reticle on my HUD, and drop bombs from about 18000 in CCIP-CR 3/9 mode.

 

Note to remember: after dropping a drop in CR mode, the Maverick will not fire. I can only assume that this is a bug. The workaround is to switch Master Mode to CCRP, which will allow the Mavs to fire.

 

I don't think its a bug. If you selected bombs from DSMS, and dropped them (while MAV TV seeker is on) you haven't selected the rack itself. In order to understand, the CCRP and CCIP modes don't affect the maverick employment since it's a standalone system that does all the calculations and tracking to keep up with the target. Bombs are stupid and need your attention, so CCIP helps you drop the bombs diving, and CCRP, helps you drop the bombs flat flying. In order to switch to the maverick station, select DSMS, then deselect the now-empty bombs racks (white without annotations), then select the maverick. But you're partly right because if the maverick release mode is set by default to CCIP and you're in CCRP on the HUD, then it wont fire unless you switch back the Master HOTAS to CCIP. Get it? Regards, 2k9