A2A Simulations P-51D Mustang

[rattler]

A2A to develop it's WARBIRDS for DCS....THAT would be a nice addition to the third party crew.

 

Yes, totally agree. The only thing is we may not see it for some time. Their aircraft are works of art and precision. IRIS is a good start so maybe this will help to bringing others to DCS-World. Hope so.

[ErichVon]

TacPack will only be for the VRA F-18E/F as has been stated by A2A. I do believe that they will look at it for the piston warbird types in time but from what I have read TacPack is for VRA only and you must have VRA to get TacPack. Cheers.

 

Well, I really, really hope the next DCS aircraft is the F18 and a CV to land it on and combat missions to that end.

 

I wonder what the VRA community is like?

 

Thanks for bringing me up to speed on the VRA F-18 E/F setup requirements.

Edited June 12, 2012 by ErichVon

[element1108]

Yes, totally agree. The only thing is we may not see it for some time. Their aircraft are works of art and precision. IRIS is a good start so maybe this will help to bringing others to DCS-World. Hope so.

 

Yeah, I appreciate that about A2A's work that's for sure. I'm fine with the wait, I've got my hands full with the current ED offerings and CA and B's Mig 21 in the next month/few months has got me more than occupied :)

[rattler]

Well, I really, really hope the next DCS aircraft is the F18 and a CV to land it on and combat missions to that end.

 

I wonder what the VRA community is like?

 

Thanks for bringing me up to speed on the VRA F-18 E/F setup requirements.

 

I would like to give you more info on the VRA but I don't fly it yet. I do fly the F18, There is info out there on the web about TacPack and would really help in showing you what A2A is working towards. VRA is my next aircraft. Been looking at A2A and DCS P-51D and the VRA, my decision is the VRA based on information I have gathered over the web and talking to VRA pilots. Can't wait for her to arrive. It is important to read up on the VRA as it will hit your FPS By 5 - 10 FPS. This is the only con I could come up with.:thumbup: Cheers.

 

rattler

[WildBillKelsoe]

took the plunge. It is very challenging.

[Double_D]

took the plunge. It is very challenging.

 

 

I had the A2A P-51D Mustang and enjoyed it very much..until the DCS P-51D Mustang came along...sorry boys..no turning back for me..the A2A P-51D Mustang was great it was more of the crappy graphic's that came with FSX..even after installing " REX " which only just improved it a little as far as I could see...

 

For me FSX was put to bed..and even more so by MicroSoft...:music_whistling:

[Mnemonic]

...the A2A P-51D Mustang was great it was more of the crappy graphic's that came with FSX..even after installing " REX " which only just improved it a little as far as I could see...

 

For me FSX was put to bed..and even more so by MicroSoft...:music_whistling:

 

I tend to disagree, for sure to get high quality experience FSX needs to be twicked and many addons should be installed. But FSX can (and delivers) in many cases superior visuals.

 

I have "Switzerland Professional X" scenery for FSX, which I fly with A2A aircrafts, mostly military and civilian Mustang and Spitfire, plus Aerosoft Diamond DA20-100 Katana 4X which very closely follows concept of Accusim. Besides I have REX for clouds and weather, EZDok for camera movements and "pilot head" physics, and Accufeel for turbulence and landing behavior simulation. I spent in total few hours (every now end then) to tweak fsx.cfg and shaders to my system. So now I can run FSX in DirectX 10, and I have pretty impressive visuals with very high framerate (stable 40-60 FPS) with A2A airplanes. FSX is like a big simulation sandbox, there are so many things you can tailor for your own needs!

 

I don't have very powerful muscle PC. I have i7-2670QM processor which runs 2.20 - 2.8 Ghz, 8Gb RAM and GeForce 555 GT. And I run FSX and DCS in 1920x1080. To just give you a sample how FSX looks on my machine, here are couple of screenshots I made:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More, here:

 

 

 

On my machine I run DCS with medium-low settings (only few things on high) to have comparable framerate (I simply cannot bare low framerates, I will better sacrifice visuals) and visually it is also plausible but not such detailed, and I try to close my eyes on some triangle pyramidal mountains in World.

 

Besides I think ED still need to fix or update many things in DCS P-51D to be on pair with A2A Accusim P-51D. I came to this conclusion after flying both and reading how it should be in real P-51D. It is lovely, DCS P-51D moved me to research more about Mustang, and make me appreciate and love this bird :D ! I like multiplayer, ability to shoot stuff and damage modelling of DCS a lot but systems wise (and modelling wise) there are some things which you notice every now and then which feels not right, or unfinished.

 

To tell a few things which now feels not right in DCS P-51D for me:

- engine exhaust fire effect which fires all the time, no matter the mode you run engine, or lighting conditions.

- how starter works - auto oscillation even without ignition kicks in very fast, faster then one can count 6 blades,

- how much you need to move your throttle "crank 1 Inch" on start to not jump to very high RPM right from the start,

- taxiing behavior is too inertial when it comes to sharp turns without using brakes,

- work of the prop governor after supercharger kicks in (didn't noticed it ever tries to work at all),

- several mistakes in tutorials: you should NOT turn off gyro of K-14A before landing, only after going full stop, rotating gyro have much less chance to brake out of impact, also inconsistencies in starting up tutorial.

 

Incomplete or absent things in 3D cockpit of DCS P-51:

- "HOTAS" range control wire which goes to gunsight's rheostat is absent (left - DCS, right - A2A);

 

 

- Indicator knobs on canopy (which should click in only after you close canopy) are not animated;

- There is no antiglare "sunglass" on K-14;

- Mixture lever doesn't have a "tooth" after "Run" mark which suppose to stop lever from accidental further movement (still not sure it was implemented on all aircrafts but worth checking);

- All switches sound the same (moreover the same as A-10);

- There is no sound for flaps lever;

- Illumination of the cockpit is not complete, missing fluorescent light mode.

 

All these seems just right with A2A Accusim P-51D.

 

I am not bashing in any form, just want to tell what I think. And I agree that all this can be considered as very subtle inconsistencies, after all aircraft flies right, and fights right. And I fly it often! But I do hope these things will be ironed out in patches for DCS P-51D.

 

By then A2A version feels a more alive and lifelike for me.

And I don't even mentioned persistent aircraft feature one have with Accusim.

 

P.S. Anyway my hat off to both teams, I think if we can investigate and discuss such details when talking about computer "games",then my fate in further development of Flight simulations restored!

Edited February 24, 2013 by Mnemonic

[Phantom88]

Incredible Shots!! Well Done:thumbup:

[RedRain]

I am absolutely astonished at the negativity towards fsx that you may find on this forum. I have a reasonable system though it is no super computer and run fsx @ 6040 x 1080 @ 40 to 50 fps, on high setting, minimum tweeks, lots of stunning addons, awesome graphics and stable. in comparison, dcs @ 6040 x 1080 @ 30 to 40 fps (above 30metres) reduced to slideshow (below 10metres), on high settings, lots of tweeks, no addons other than modules, average graphics and not so stable. I own all pre dcs world modules but due to dcs instability since world, I have purchased the dodosim Jetranger instead of fc3, and voxatc instead of ca. I hope this changes, but I can honestly say, that I am having more fun with fsx at the moment. I hope that 1.2.3 introduces essential improvements to tha core product, prior to me investing in any more modules, Fingers crossed ?

[rubblebeam]

You'll always get 'fanboys" Both sims have their plus sides and both have their negative sides.

I can get pretty decent frame rates flying around Aerosofts LA full settings

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo341/trashsifter/2013-2-24_7-6-31-93.png

 

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo341/trashsifter/2013-2-24_7-6-10-268.png

 

but the urge to drop a few bombs on Disneyland or hollywood is an itch i just cannot scratch unless I fly the excellent VRS superbug with tacpack.

DCS offers an excellent military environment albeit with limited aircraft. FSX offers a huge array of addons some are subpar but some are excellent and some of the excellent are free, generously developed for the community by unselfish individuals. And the world is your oyster you can fly ANYWHERE in FSX. FSX has bee around for a long time so the addons are numerous. DCS will be around for a long time i'm sure and in a few years the addons will be numerous. I fly both for different reasons and I like them both.

Kind Regards

[Mnemonic]

Just wait for EDGE for a core improvement. I'm not to sure we'll see one with 1.2.3

I'm sure we will not see one for a while, according to known information from interviews.

I can hope that EDGE not only will look better but will run faster than existing engine.

 

I provided my screenshots just to show that FSX doesn't look crappy if you have invested into addons and tweaks.

And you can run high fidelity simulation on it, with external advanced flight model etc...

 

Anyway, back to the topic, EDGE will not fix bugs and inconsistencies of DCS P-51D, I hope ED will continue to patch it!

Edited February 24, 2013 by Mnemonic

[WildBillKelsoe]

I had the A2A P-51D Mustang and enjoyed it very much..until the DCS P-51D Mustang came along...sorry boys..no turning back for me..the A2A P-51D Mustang was great it was more of the crappy graphic's that came with FSX..even after installing " REX " which only just improved it a little as far as I could see...

 

For me FSX was put to bed..and even more so by MicroSoft...:music_whistling:

 

DD, ;)

 

I've purchased A2A AFTER DCS. It is chiefly to help with engine management, as I'm relatively new to prop crafts, previously a Ka-50 monkey, a Hog nut, and the recent transition to prop by ED got me worried, so I decided to take it slow.

 

 

But I have to disagree with you over a thing or two. Takeoff is extremely difficult with A2A simulations. Another thing is that world is so big, and you can lose track of where you are unless you have occasional looks at maps or check ATC proximity (by radio), which is cool for real world pilots (and wanna-be's like me), because you get to use that TSD computer all the time, plot while trimmed, and then you lose trim, re-trim, etc....

 

So it partly mimics realism. I love getting my hands full just to feel how those Red Tails got their fame.

 

 

I'm planning a flight from Essex, UK to Berlin, Germany, in A2A's. Such things you can't recreate in DCS, but TC-1 is a good start, and I really enjoy looking at map and outside to see where approximately I am.

 

What I agree with, is that graphics in DCS are superior to FSX because its an entirely different, albeit sexy (to describe it) engine. Plus you get to blow some stuff up. I was one of the Nay-sayers to P-51D by ED at first, but I came to love it, and now I want more ED stuff, old, new, futuristic (well, let's not get carried away, unless it's 95% replica, par with Hog or Shark for example).. I purchased every thing they released this year, because I want to support those guys, simply because it is too gratifying to see hard work drag alot of attention.

[Mnemonic]

I was one of the Nay-sayers to P-51D by ED at first, but I came to love it, and now I want more ED stuff, old, new, futuristic (well, let's not get carried away, unless it's 95% replica, par with Hog or Shark for example).. I purchased every thing they released this year, because I want to support those guys, simply because it is too gratifying to see hard work drag alot of attention.

Btw. just don't want to look like "nay sayer", I also support ED, and bought everything they ever released, and most of them couple of times as a presents to friends.

And I flew Flanker, LockOn, Flamming Cliffs, Ka-50, A-10C before it was cool, I mean far before release of DCS World :D

 

But they do need to fix some things in P-51D :)

I love it, I fly it, but there are still some things to work on.

And for the first time in history we can compare non DCS simulator to DCS, because of high level of fidelity of both and same aircraft modelled.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Mnemonic

[WildBillKelsoe]

Btw. just don't want to look like "nay sayer", I also support ED, and bought everything they ever released, and most of them couple of times as a presents to friends.

And I flew Flanker, LockOn, Flamming Cliffs, Ka-50, A-10C before it was cool, I mean far before release of DCS World :D

 

But they do need to fix some things in P-51D :)

I love it, I fly it, but there are still some things to work on.

And for the first time in history we can compare non DCS simulator to DCS, because of high level of fidelity of both and same aircraft modelled.

 

I agree. The FPS stutter for starters... The cannon balls.... But I have trust in ED because they evolved a new system of auto-updates, that puts the simulator to self maintenance, and that is a plus and a merit of originality IMO.

[cichlidfan]

...and that is a plus and a merit of originality IMO.

 

A plus yes but hardly original. A significant amount of the software I own will check for and install updates when I run it.

[WildBillKelsoe]

A plus yes but hardly original. A significant amount of the software I own will check for and install updates when I run it.

 

Fan, I meant as a change from the previous patching system.

[Double_D]

DD, ;)

 

I've purchased A2A AFTER DCS. It is chiefly to help with engine management, as I'm relatively new to prop crafts, previously a Ka-50 monkey, a Hog nut, and the recent transition to prop by ED got me worried, so I decided to take it slow.

 

 

But I have to disagree with you over a thing or two. Takeoff is extremely difficult with A2A simulations.

 

Well, never said that the A2A P-51D Mustang was easier to takeoff, I found myself trying for a long time to do a takeoff, but once I found how to compensate the torque..I was able to do so...Glad you enjoy it..as I did...but I just had to move to DCS for it..yes there are the pro's and con's..but everyone has their own liking..I too also had the extended graphic's " REX " and " Orbits "..as there were nice..just didn't get me the feel I was looking for...other than that the A2A Simulations P-51D was greatly modded..cheers....:thumbup:

 

My first attempts..

 

 

And another..

 

 

And addon utility " EZdok " fllying the Redtail skin..

 

Edited February 25, 2013 by Double_D

[Fox One]

In DCS P-51D, flying horizontally at low level and full throttle, with the rudder trim and rudder neutral, the "ball" is centered at approximately 250 mph IAS. Below that speed, to keep the ball centered you need right rudder, above that speed, left rudder. Sure, changing throttle position rebalances everything, but let's keep it simple and consider the simplest case, the plane flies horizontally at low level and full throttle, with 3000 rpm/ 61in.

 

Now my question for A2A P-51D owners here: how does the A2A simulation compares to that, what are the rudder trim requirements to keep the ball centered in horizontal flight at low level as described above, from let's say 150 mph up to the maximum speed the plane will reach in horizontal flight at full throttle, 3000 rpm/ 61in? How about a full throttle dive up to close to 500 mph, what is the rudder trim requirement to keep the ball centered in this case?

 

Thanks

[Yo-Yo]

Besides I think ED still need to fix or update many things in DCS P-51D to be on pair with A2A Accusim P-51D. I came to this conclusion after flying both and reading how it should be in real P-51D. It is lovely, DCS P-51D moved me to research more about Mustang, and make me appreciate and love this bird :D ! I like multiplayer, ability to shoot stuff and damage modelling of DCS a lot but systems wise (and modelling wise) there are some things which you notice every now and then which feels not right, or unfinished.

 

To tell a few things which now feels not right in DCS P-51D for me:

- engine exhaust fire effect which fires all the time, no matter the mode you run engine, or lighting conditions.

Yes, this effect was WIP as it was implemented and was left only because the majority of players did not mind. Actually, the amount of coding work to make it lightning conditions dependable is huge so it postponed a little... but the effect itself is dependable on fuel/air ratio. Or must be.... anyway, we have several flames for it.

 

- how starter works - auto oscillation even without ignition kicks in very fast, faster then one can count 6 blades,

The ignition from the magneto is not so effective at low rpm, so the accumulator-fed boost coil provides it when the starter is engaged. Thus, the firing begins even if the both magnetos are off. This ignition has the late timing to make starting easier.

By the way, if you advance the throttle too far in DCS simulation you will get backfires. Is it the same in A2A sim?

The second question will be - what is ammeter readings in DCS and in A2A when the starter is engaged? In DCS it shows NOTHING because the gauge shows the current PROVIDING with the generator. But even it was connected to measure the battery current it would never be in the same circuit with a starter because the ammeter shunt can not withstand starter current.

- how much you need to move your throttle "crank 1 Inch" on start to not jump to very high RPM right from the start,

I do not see something unusual. Anyway, we model R-R style MP regulator of earlier type.

- taxiing behavior is too inertial when it comes to sharp turns without using brakes,

if you mean stearable tailwheel, the behaviour is in accordance with its 6 degree steering angle.

- work of the prop governor after supercharger kicks in (didn't noticed it ever tries to work at all),

It works. Try to change MP from cruise 30" to 61". You can even take a look at the prop as it is in transition.

 

- Illumination of the cockpit is not complete, missing fluorescent light mode.

As far as I can see, it is fluorescent mode.

 

By then A2A version feels a more alive and lifelike for me.

I would be very happy if someone answers FoxOne's question about the rudder trim... :)

 

P.S. By the way, in DCS fairing doors are pushed with the wheels during emergency release. And they all are g-sensitive. You still think we have less attention to the details? :)

Edited February 28, 2013 by Yo-Yo