Next DCS Helicopter Wish List

[thaisocom]

I'm we already have DCS aircraft list but we might as well have one dedicated to helicopters, since we also have lot of rotary fans around here. :D

[jp203000]

i would rather it was CESSNA 172 than a helicopter

Edited August 14, 2011 by jp203000

[Frostiken]

A Blackhawk? Not really sure how much life you expect to get out of a helicopter sim that's pretty much based completely around ferrying stuff from point A to point B. Maybe fly circles around while an AI guy that you can't see shoots stuff out the sides?

 

The problem with helicopters is very, very few exist that are single-seaters, even non-attack variants. If the F-15E is unlikely because it's a two-seater, it's still mostly redundant in both cockpits - something with very exclusive controls like an Apache or a Cobra are pretty much totally out, since you wouldn't be able to do anything in the opposite crew station.

 

That said, if we were to get any on this list, I think the Supercobra would be a blast. I tentatively pick it over the Apache. They both almost serve in the same roles, but the Supercobra's a lot more nimble. If it were a Longbow, I'd go with that, but the Army treats the Longbow like it's more secret than the arc of the goddamn covenant so I don't think I'd really want a dated Apache...

Edited August 14, 2011 by Frostiken

[LostOblivion]

Sure a Blackhawk is more boring to fly, but making a module for things like the Blackhawk takes a lot less time than, say, a Longbow, and enables ED to pump out more modules in less time working towards the goal of ultimately modelling every aircraft in the DCS world. :)

[Frostiken]

Since when is that their goal? ED's goal is to make money and I can tell you right now a Blackhawk sim wouldn't move many copies for precisely the reason I said unless there was something extremely special about it - and I'm not thinking 'special' in the realm of simulated reality. Special as in the only way I can imagine your average sim consumer seriously wanting to spend money on it would be to greatly dramatize the entire thing (think Black Hawk Down).

 

Additionally the problem with any infantry-centric helicopter is the fact that DCS's implementation and handling of ground combat is not its strong suit. A simple helicopter like a Blackhawk might be "quick" to implement, but I doubt that - there's still a ton of research and even something crude like a Blackhawk has several dozen switches to flip and its own avionics suite. Additionally, to implement something that literally does almost nothing except carry infantry around without greatly improving the entire 'ground' aspect both in terms of visual fidelity and infantry would just make it feel soulless.

 

Compare flying a helicopter over Chernarus in ArmA2 to the KA-50 and you see what I mean...

 

WWyyiLFRTN4 xR5tEFBkeZw

Edited August 14, 2011 by Frostiken

[EtherealN]

A simple helicopter like a Blackhawk might be "quick" to implement, but I doubt that

 

Very much correct. People underestimate the sheer size of the work involved in creating a DCS-level flight model. The essential process is that Yo-Yo does the science magic in finding a mathematical model that accurately predicts the flight behaviour of a given aircraft (using blade element theory), and this is then given to the programmers to implement. Both of these two are HUGE jobs. The model then, once implemented, needs to be tested and verified as accurate by testers and SME's, referencing actual documentation. Obviously there will be problems, and the whole thing sort of starts over to find the cause - is it the model? The implementation? The engine? Etcetera.

 

With the flight model done, this all then starts over with engine modeling, hydraulics modeling, avionics modeling, etcetera etcetera.

 

...and all of these are completely independent of what customers tend to think is "the job" - like the whole F-15E argument - "well, why else did they make that new pretty graphical model"? Essentally, all of those things, which are massive jobs, have to be done and good before "what you see" ever becomes relevant.

 

So, as you say, while a blackhawk might be "easier" to make in some respects, the things that are removed from the pipeline by the nature of such an aircraft are a pretty small thing in the overall picture.

[Grimes]

For me, any 2 seat attack chopper would do. They each have their own features that would make it appealing for me from a flight and mission design perspective.

 

Apache- Fits well with the A-10 in mission roles

Super Cobra - Possibilities of LHD and Amphibious assaults would be amazing.

A129- We need more European stuff in the Sim

Mi-35- Cross use for troop transport. Plus its an iconic aircraft

Mi-28- Still kinda fun, but I'd prefer Mi-35 over it

Ka-52- Synergies with the Ka-50, but other than that... meh.

EC665 Tiger- Again, more European designed weapon systems are needed.

BlackHawk/Chinook- I wouldn't bother.

 

Not listed:

Kiowa/Helicopter UAV's- Player JTAC!

 

Overall, the modern usage of helicopters isn't quite realized in DCS. We can attack tanks all day and relive Cold War style scenarios, but the modern day anti insurgency warfare simply isn't possible. Think of it like this, if I had to use hellfires, I'd use DCS. If I want to use rockets or guns, I'd load up ARMA. Because there is no middle ground between em.

[EtherealN]

Minor note, and not really contrary to you, but just a point: hellfires are actively used in COIN work in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

[thaisocom]

A Blackhawk? Not really sure how much life you expect to get out of a helicopter sim that's pretty much based completely around ferrying stuff from point A to point B. Maybe fly circles around while an AI guy that you can't see shoots stuff out the sides?

 

The problem with helicopters is very, very few exist that are single-seaters, even non-attack variants. If the F-15E is unlikely because it's a two-seater, it's still mostly redundant in both cockpits - something with very exclusive controls like an Apache or a Cobra are pretty much totally out, since you wouldn't be able to do anything in the opposite crew station.

 

That said, if we were to get any on this list, I think the Supercobra would be a blast. I tentatively pick it over the Apache. They both almost serve in the same roles, but the Supercobra's a lot more nimble. If it were a Longbow, I'd go with that, but the Army treats the Longbow like it's more secret than the arc of the goddamn covenant so I don't think I'd really want a dated Apache...

Although Blackhawk is not a dedicated attack helicopter it still pack lot of punch. It can carry out various missions ranging from transportation of troop to direct action.

 

DKP3kAjOi8Y

 

But of course I have to agree that there are lot more systems that we can play with for dedicated attack helicopters.

Edited August 14, 2011 by thaisocom

[Isegrim]

You completely forgotten the Rooivalk Guys. The Mi-24 i miss too: Both would be a good add.... and i would prefer it to an MI-35 i dont like the MI-35. Also the Bo-105 PAH2 would be cool or Gazelle....

Kiowa is also Interesting.

 

 

MI-28 would not be done also the Tiger-EC665,KA52 and AH64-D Cause they are pretty new and many systems are secrets.

 

Edit: Also what will you do exactly with a Chinnok or a UH 60 in that sim??? Flying around and look???? Your guys eyes sometimes are become sooo big if you get the chance to virtualy fly such Helicopters but after the third flight it gets boring and then you drop it away like a little child his brand new Toy after Playing with it the third time.

There is FSX for such Helicopters...

 

Sorry but had to say that ;)

 

Greetings

 

=STP= Isegrim

Edited August 14, 2011 by Isegrim

[Jona33]

The Black Hawks capable of everything the Mi-24 can do. This video is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUrGYtCJH7I

[VincentLaw]

My top two are the AH-1Z and the UH-60M, but water landing a Chinook could be interesting. I would also like the Ka-52 just because of the coaxial rotors. Making the gunner positions available on the Blackhawk and Chinook would also be fun.

[thaisocom]

The Black Hawks capable of everything the Mi-24 can do. This video is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUrGYtCJH7I

Nice vid! :thumbup:

 

That said, if we were to get any on this list, I think the Supercobra would be a blast. I tentatively pick it over the Apache. They both almost serve in the same roles, but the Supercobra's a lot more nimble. If it were a Longbow, I'd go with that, but the Army treats the Longbow like it's more secret than the arc of the goddamn covenant so I don't think I'd really want a dated Apache...

I'm agree with you. I'd rather fly a latest Super Cobra than a dated Apache. Also with Cobra we will have an opportunity of playing with LHD and such!

 

4NERBxn_nJU

Edited August 15, 2011 by thaisocom

[Phrenesis]

How would you fly a 2 seater on your own? Pick a seat and let a npc on the other? With the current ai that would be a disaster.

 

I can see how it would work in a multiplayer enviroment, but then you would always have to rely on other players.

[thaisocom]

How would you fly a 2 seater on your own? Pick a seat and let a npc on the other? With the current ai that would be a disaster.

 

I can see how it would work in a multiplayer enviroment, but then you would always have to rely on other players.

Maybe that is one of the reason we do not see any 2-seaters in DCS yet? If we look back, all aircraft in LOMAC/FC are single seater as well. :joystick:

[SNAFU]

I would like a UH-60 or other transport system because it is different from the usual fly-around-blow-up-stuff thing.

 

OK the Inf AI in DCS is not really sophisticated, but still in BlackShark I find the best part supporting attacking infantry and watching the little dots advancing to a point. Sure it could be better, but you could also imagine a SAR mission online, for downed A-10 jockeys f.e., or just drop some Stinger-Man-Pad somewhere and surpsie some Ka-50 players... :joystick:

 

To it me was always to best part of DCS BlackShark to get somewhere into a position, not the blowing up tanks, but the getting safely there and out again. If I now fly a Mi-24 or UH-60 somehow find my way through dangerous spots into f.e. a town, land there, and get safely out again is far more satisfying, than just flying around and blowing up stuff with the bravery of being out of range. But that just might be me, but I voted for the UH-60.

 

:pilotfly:

[Isegrim]

:thumbup:

Maybe that is one of the reason we do not see any 2-seaters in DCS yet? If we look back, all aircraft in LOMAC/FC are single seater as well. :joystick:

 

 

Fly in Gunners Pos. and tell the Pilots Steering with Key commands up-Down Forward-Backward strafe left-right Turn left-right.....Hover.

 

 

And i Think the A.i. Gunners in DCS are really well...its simply the Pilot wich does idiotic stuff if a Sam or another threat comes up.

 

 

Mi 35 is a Mi 24 with not retractable Wheels.:music_whistling: I hate this Helo its completly unsexy.

 

Cool somebody else voted for A 129 :thumbup:

[Dowly]

To it me was always to best part of DCS BlackShark to get somewhere into a position, not the blowing up tanks, but the getting safely there and out again. If I now fly a Mi-24 or UH-60 somehow find my way through dangerous spots into f.e. a town, land there, and get safely out again is far more satisfying, than just flying around and blowing up stuff with the bravery of being out of range. But that just might be me, but I voted for the UH-60.

 

I agree. :thumbup:

[thaisocom]

To it me was always to best part of DCS BlackShark to get somewhere into a position, not the blowing up tanks, but the getting safely there and out again. If I now fly a Mi-24 or UH-60 somehow find my way through dangerous spots into f.e. a town, land there, and get safely out again is far more satisfying, than just flying around and blowing up stuff with the bravery of being out of range. But that just might be me, but I voted for the UH-60.

I agree! :D

 

Pilot wich does idiotic stuff if a Sam or another threat comes up.

That's definitely true.
Edited August 17, 2011 by thaisocom

[Isegrim]

I dont see any proplems to do a two seater.

 

The question is how its to be done ...

Its possibly done like there will be a A.I. Alter ego from original Pilot

which can be Trained to reach skills like the Pilot himself on a Special Firing Range and the A.I. then gets same Reaction time ...Time to First shot....

Find Targets Skills....

 

That means The Pilot Train the A.I. Gunner Skills.

 

:thumbup:

[Frostiken]

How would you get the gunner to shoot what you want him to shoot and not, say, start plinking away at infantry with the cannon while a Shilka rolls out of the trees?

[sobek]

What are you doing with a whirly bird in the engagement range of a shilka in the first place?

[Speed]

What are you doing with a whirly bird in the engagement range of a shilka in the first place?

 

I donno... maybe you were just plinking away at infantry when all of a sudden, "a Shilka rolled out of the trees" (hint: you can't avoid something if you don't know it's there) :smartass:

[Speed]

BTW, I am also of the opinion that if we can't have the AH-64D Apache, we might as well have the latest AH-1. Personally, I do not believe that AH-64D should have been included in this poll at all, as I do believe that ED has said in the past that it is not possible for them to make an AH-64D module.

 

Personally though, I think an Mi-28 would kick major @$$ too.

[sobek]

I donno... maybe you were just plinking away at infantry when all of a sudden, "a Shilka rolled out of the trees" (hint: you can't avoid something if you don't know it's there) :smartass:

 

You think that all the while you are going medieval on the infantry, the shilka is gonna sit there and say, "hey, he's gonna kill all my assets that i was specifically tasked to protect from air threats, but maybe if i just sit and wait here for a little longer, i might be able to sneak up on him"? ;)

 

Helos (should) have RWRs too, you know. :)

 

Oh boy, this is going way OT.

Edited August 17, 2011 by sobek