Is the current level of engine noise in the A-10 cockpit realistic?

[Crescendo]

Hi all,

 

I was watching some in-cockpit video footage of A-10s recently and I noticed that the volume of the engine noise was rather muted in comparison to what I hear in the sim. My current feeling when playing A-10C is that the engine noise is too loud, but I honestly have zero experience and evidence to support that opinion (youtube videos are extremely poor evidence and are not worthy of being linked to).

 

I do realise that the method of recording sounds when taking video footage can greatly influence cockpit noise in the resulting video. For example, if the sound is recorded from the same source as the pilot's headphones, you might not hear any engine noise at all, which falsely creates the impression that the pilot hears very little of the engines. Furthermore, perhaps the unique position of the A-10's engines sitting 'exposed' directly behind the pilot makes the volume louder than it would be in another aircraft such as an F-16.

 

I then had the thought that maybe the volume of the engines in the cockpit actually is that loud and is correctly implemented in-game, but the pilot percieves the sound as being attenuated due to the helmet and headphones they are wearing.

 

Obviously this is not a question I can hope to answer, so I was wondering if anyone has any direct experience with actually sitting in a fighter aircraft (or even a comparable civillian aircraft) with the engines running at idle and higher thrust. I know there are a few crew chiefs around on the forums, so perhaps they have performed some engine tests while sitting in the cockpit.

 

Thanks for reading. :prop:

[macedk]

what ?

[macedk]

Sorry had the engines on ;)

[kylania]

Does seem a little loud, but drones out quickly in game. However in videos it's apparently and overwhelmingly loud.

 

Kinda wish it wasn't so loud so I could leave my cockpit open more. :) As it is now I have to close it almost immediately. Also wish the ladder was down by default at Ramp Start.

[Crescendo]

Kinda wish it wasn't so loud so I could leave my cockpit open more. :) As it is now I have to close it almost immediately. Also wish the ladder was down by default at Ramp Start.

 

Technically I'm talking about the engine sound as heard by the pilot when the canopy is closed, especially during flight.

 

I should have been clearer.

[Rider1]

I know what you mean. I was getting so tired of that constant drone, whine and rumble in the cockpit that I did a little file renaming to get rid of it.

Try this.

In : Eagle Dynamics\DCS A-10C\Sounds\Effects\Aircrafts

Rename :

planewind.wav

planewindIn.wav

 

(I just put OFF at the end to be able to find them quick and change them back if needed... planewindOFF.wav)

 

In : Eagle Dynamics\DCS A-10C\Sounds\Effects\Aircrafts\Engines

Rename:

EngineTF34GE100Fan.wav

EngineTF34GE100InL.wav

EngineTF34GE100InR.wav

 

Now all you will hear is the engine core sound. It will be very subtle and you will still hear the soft sound of the engines spoolling up and down as you make power adjustments and will retain the aural cues of what speeds the engines are running at.

 

Also may want to tweak your in game sound settings a bit as well.

Mine are

World 100

Helmet 50

In Cockpit 20

 

Give this a try and see if it is to your liking. I am totally pleased with it.

 

Remember to back up those files etc.. But it's pretty straightforward :)

[Forest Rat]

Most, if not all of our A-10 pilots wear ear plugs... can't speak for cockpit noise but it can be deafening on the comm when they crank the volume.

[Fuzzysham]

Hey guys,

 

For what it's worth, I demoed this game to my uncle who used to fly A-10's. The video was of some take offs and landings as well as some ground attacks.

 

He said everything was realistic from what he could tell, especially the sound of the gun. He said "The Gun was awesome- sounds just like that!"

 

However, he did say that "We wear earplugs under the helmet so it is very quiet in the cockpit.", meaning the engine is too loud in cockpit. He also mentioned the radio calls weren't realistic, at least based on his many years of flying the A-10. There were some other minor nitpicks but that is off topic.

 

Bottom line, it does seem like the engine in cockpit is too loud.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Fuzzysham

[cichlidfan]

It seems to me that you are talking about two different things. The ambient noise bouncing around in the cockpit and the ambient noise bouncing around inside the pilots ears.

 

If DCS modelled everything realistically and you have your volume settings balanced correctly, then it should be too loud, if the knowlegable opinions here are correct. Why, because you are not wearing ear plugs. DCS models the noise the aircraft makes not what the pilot in full flight gear, including earplugs apparently, hears.

 

I am not disagreeing from a player standpoint, merely pointing out why it, probably, is the way it is.:D

[Fuzzysham]

It seems to me that you are talking about two different things. The ambient noise bouncing around in the cockpit and the ambient noise bouncing around inside the pilots ears.

 

If DCS modelled everything realistically and you have your volume settings balanced correctly, then it should be too loud, if the knowlegable opinions here are correct. Why, because you are not wearing ear plugs. DCS models the noise the aircraft makes not what the pilot in full flight gear, including earplugs apparently, hears.

 

I am not disagreeing from a player standpoint, merely pointing out why it, probably, is the way it is.:D

 

You probably are correct that is why the engine sounds how it sounds in the game. Personally, if I had a preference I would like to have it closer to what a pilot hears. Makes sense to me as it is a sim but there are probably more factors as to why it is the way it is. Meh, oh well.

 

By the way, Woodbridge, eh? I'm right over in Springfield.

[Cali]

I can only speak for myself, what I have seen and been through. F-16 pilots wear ear plugs along with the helmet. When I had my flight, I couldn't hear the AB kick in when we took off. Also the cockpit noise was low, just heard the plot talking to me, ATC and a slight buzz. If I was outside the jet I'd be able to hear it loud and clearly. However, I did hear the pitch in the engine change when we were landing.

[Crescendo]

Most, if not all of our A-10 pilots wear ear plugs... can't speak for cockpit noise but it can be deafening on the comm when they crank the volume.

 

However, he did say that "We wear earplugs under the helmet so it is very quiet in the cockpit.", meaning the engine is too loud in cockpit. He also mentioned the radio calls weren't realistic, at least based on his many years of flying the A-10. There were some other minor nitpicks but that is off topic.

 

Bottom line, it does seem like the engine in cockpit is too loud.

 

I can only speak for myself, what I have seen and been through. F-16 pilots wear ear plugs along with the helmet. When I had my flight, I couldn't hear the AB kick in when we took off. Also the cockpit noise was low, just heard the plot talking to me, ATC and a slight buzz. If I was outside the jet I'd be able to hear it loud and clearly. However, I did hear the pitch in the engine change when we were landing.

 

Thanks Squirrel, fuzzysham, and Cali. I actually didn't know that pilots typically wear ear plugs, but it makes sense when you think about it. A pilot needs to clearly hear the audio output of the aircraft and any radio communications.

 

Thanks also for the two personal anecdotes about actually sitting in a fighter cockpit. It seems to me from this small sample of experiences that the level of engine sound in the DCS A-10C cockpit is not the level of sound that a real pilot would hear. This is because the noise is attenuated by earplugs (helmet and headphones not so much).

 

If DCS modelled everything realistically and you have your volume settings balanced correctly, then it should be too loud, if the knowlegable opinions here are correct. Why, because you are not wearing ear plugs. DCS models the noise the aircraft makes not what the pilot in full flight gear, including earplugs apparently, hears.

 

I agree with this, cichlidfan.

 

However, my bias is that I tend to approach this sort of 'problem' from the perspective of a virtual pilot. I do understand that the current noise level in-game may in fact be an accurate represenation of sound waves bouncing around in a real cockpit, but if no real pilot ever hears that level of sound due to earplug attenuation, I tend to think we ought to hear cockpit noises as that real pilot would hear it.

 

After all, the plane is not flying itself: We do. Similarly, we wouldn't hear Bitching Betty and the various caution tones if we didn't have a set of virtual heaphones on our virtual pilot, so from that point of view the sound is already simulated from a pilot's perspective, it's just that ED forgot the earplugs (:D). To be logically consistent, I suppose we ought to either have loud engine noises and no headphone audio (because DCS does not simulate the pilot), or we ought to have attenuated engine noise and headphone audio (because DCS does simulate the pilot)—not both.

 

But your point is well taken, of course.

 

I know what you mean. I was getting so tired of that constant drone, whine and rumble in the cockpit that I did a little file renaming to get rid of it.

Try this.

 

Thanks for the great idea, Rider1. I'll certainly be trying this out.

[cichlidfan]

I was thinking that a button could be added for "Don Headgear" which would attenuate the noise, just like what happens when the cockpit closes.:D

[Joyride]

what ?

 

I LOL'ed. :)

[rockyalexander]

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123014013

[-NFlight-]

He also mentioned the radio calls weren't realistic, at least based on his many years of flying the A-10.

 

I've been harping about that for months and was told there are more important things to worry about... like making sure the blades of grass were the proper shade of green.

[Fuzzysham]

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123014013

 

Ooooh, nice. I've had that done to my ears like 3 times, it feels really weird. I have some custom in ear monitors (IEM) and it really is superb sound, you cannot hear any external noises with them in. Pricey but worth it.

 

http://ultimateears.com/en-us/products/11-pro

 

I've been harping about that for months and was told there are more important things to worry about... like making sure the blades of grass were the proper shade of green.

 

I never did ask what was wrong with the radio calls when I was speaking with him. What exactly is wrong with them? Give me an example, I'm curious now.

[firestick22]

I tried to edit the wave files with an audio editor. I lowered the volume and resaved them... why doesn't that work???

[hog_driver111th]

In thinking about editing the sound files, I tried to reason with why you would want to at all. Fly actual aircraft with headsets and earplugs is much different than flying a sim without the feedback from the sound. In the actual, you can feel the thrust or drag or the oncoming stall. In the sim, we have none of that, so the engine noise is there to help us.

[cichlidfan]

That is a very valid point. I generally just adjust the volume from time to time while playing.

[firestick22]

I need to hear the engines, no doubt. But if you ever try the sim without the engine noise, you'd be amazed by what youre missing. I need to hear the flaps, gear going up and down and especially the speedbrakes. They all sound fantastic without the damn engine droning over them.

 

I don't wear a headset, I'm not gonna fly with earplugs.

 

Why can't the sound files be edited and saved? Anyone know? All I want to do is reduce the engine noise so I can hear the other systems!

[firestick22]

I was able to use wavepad, a simple .wav editor, to lower the gain of my engine files. I'm very pleased with the results. I can now here all the other mechanical sounds very nicely. It has made my experience with A10C much more enjoyable!

 

I had to drag the files to my desktop, edit them, save them to my desktop and then drag them back to the proper folder. It works for me.

[Sarge55]

Why not just adjust the gain level directly using Notepad++? Look for;

 

C:\DCS A-10C\Sounds\sdef\Aircrafts\Engines\EngineTF34GE100InR.sdef

and

C:\DCS A-10C\Sounds\sdef\Aircrafts\Engines\EngineTF34GE100InL.sdef

 

Example below;

wave = "Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/EngineTF34GE100InR"

outer_radius = 1000

position = {-7.5, 0.0, 0.5}

gain = 0.25 (default is 1.0) I like 0.25

 

Don't forget to back up your files.

[firestick22]

I'm not that smart, Sarge! Thanks, much easier!

[Crescendo]

Why not just adjust the gain level directly using Notepad++? Look for;

 

C:\DCS A-10C\Sounds\sdef\Aircrafts\Engines\EngineTF34GE100InR.sdef

and

C:\DCS A-10C\Sounds\sdef\Aircrafts\Engines\EngineTF34GE100InL.sdef

 

Example below;

wave = "Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/EngineTF34GE100InR"

outer_radius = 1000

position = {-7.5, 0.0, 0.5}

gain = 0.25 (default is 1.0) I like 0.25

 

Don't forget to back up your files.

 

Good idea. :smartass: