Aim 9m

[Mohamengina]

Is there anyway to fire the aim9m sidewinder missiles at ground targets?

 

If so, how?

[macedk]

not to my knowledge

[kylania]

Not locking, but you can boresight fire them like rockets and sometimes hit something.

 

Then again I used a GBU-12 on a helo the other night, so it's all fair. ;)

[cichlidfan]

Does the average ground target put out enough heat to even get picked up by an AIM -9's sensor? I would be a bit surprised if it did, or if there would be enough contrast.

[Rhinox]

Does the average ground target put out enough heat to even get picked up by an AIM -9's sensor? I would be a bit surprised if it did, or if there would be enough contrast.

I'd say it depends on distance even more (quadratic) than on thermal intensity (linear): reduce distance to half, and you need only 1/4 of heat to get the same contrast...

 

But I think there are some filters which help to distinguish flying targets from ground (i.e. wavelength-filter) so it does not lock on ground targets anyway...

[159th_Viper]

IRL - AIM-9X specifically geared to engage Ground Targets.

[Eddie]

IRL - AIM-9X specifically geared to engage Ground Targets.

 

Not quite. ;)

 

The AIM-9X block II has the capability to engage surface targets, however as of July this year, it is only just entering limited first production phase. Most AIM-9X missiles in use are block Is which don't have that capability.

 

And even on the block IIs it's an extra, 'can be used if needed' capability rather than something that would be used routinely. The warheads on AAM aren't really much use against anything but soft ground targets.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Eddie
spelling

[Cali]

Two words come to mind........Road Rage :D

[Rusty_M]

I wouldn't really have a clue about how they differentiate between airborne and ground based targets, but I'd imagine they could hit something if it were on fire. However I'd doubt that heat signatures of such unlikely targets as ground based targets would be modeled in sim.

[Speed]

I'm sure that nothing prevents an AIM-9M from engaging anything it can lock onto. Since AIM-9M IS in fact all-aspect, doesn't require quite the extreme thermal contrast to lock onto a target that previous AIM-9 versions did. I'm sure you can come up with target ground vehicles against appropriate backgrounds that it could lock onto, without requiring the target vehicle to be on fire. I even heard a rumor that a Tornado used an AIM-9L to destroy a ground target during Operation Desert Storm. I'll look very quickly to see if there is more to that rumor or not.

 

In the AIM-9M's case, I am going to make an educated guess that it can only lock onto hot targets against cold backgrounds. Many modern IR weapons can lock onto cold targets against hot backgrounds, but those would all be imaging FPA systems, I believe. With more modern weapons, it's not the heat of the target that makes a target lockable, it's the delta-T (temperature difference) between the target and the background. Modern IR weapons form images and home in on contrast features. Anyway, I do believe that the AIM-9M has only a single or a handful of IR detectors, and only forms pseudo-images. Additionally, it's a pretty old weapon so its signal processing must be pretty primative as well (maybe they've upgraded it over the years though...), so almost certainly, it will only home in on hot targets against colder backgrounds. Besides, being an AAM, you're really only ever going to see hot targets against cold backgrounds in air-to-air. So it's quite likely (probable, in fact) that, for example, a hot, moving truck on a cool desert night would be able to be engaged by an AIM-9M.

 

Oh and one final thing, they test a lot of these weapons with "hot plates". Its just a heated target they suspend a little bit above the ground.

 

So yea, in game, we SHOULD in fact be able to lock onto some ground targets with AIM-9s (dependent on the ground temperature, the target temperature, fog/clouds, etc). We can't do this, however, but one can't have everything. Maybe one day when ED starts implementing a more detailed IR simulation, we will see AIM-9Ms capable of locking onto ground targets.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Speed

[711Hancer]

Taken into consideration of the "locking according to temperature difference" I think that the Tornado destroying a ground target with AIM9L in Desert Storm is fake since its a pretty hot environment. Could be in Arctic but I dont think this will work in a desert environment.

[GGTharos]

IR guided AAMs are quite sensitive. They are entirely capable of locking onto ground targets. Training for Russian pilots in fact specifies how to use an R-60 against a ground target.

 

However, like Eddie said - this is really a last resort option, and not a terribly reliable one at that. To begin with, a ground target might only offer poor contrast, and the missile could be spoofed by surrounding gunfire, illumination flares or other heat sources.

 

Finally, even when targeting is reliable - again, as Eddie mentioned - the warhead leaves some things to be desired. It's designed to destroy aircraft, so while it can perform a surgical strike, don't expect too much. You're still better off carpet-bombing with Mk-82's in the vast majority of cases.

 

Does the average ground target put out enough heat to even get picked up by an AIM -9's sensor? I would be a bit surprised if it did, or if there would be enough contrast.

[Speed]

Taken into consideration of the "locking according to temperature difference" I think that the Tornado destroying a ground target with AIM9L in Desert Storm is fake since its a pretty hot environment. Could be in Arctic but I dont think this will work in a desert environment.

 

Why should deserts never get cold? ODS occurred during the winter. Note that it is capable of snowing in Iraq:

In a book I read once about a lost British SAS patrol during ODS, one of the guys ending up dying from exposure.

 

So yea, it appears it got pretty cold in places in Iraq during ODS. It's wholly conceivable that an IR AAM could have been used to engage ground targets. But was one?

Edited September 23, 2011 by Speed

[711Hancer]

yes generally the temperature difference between a day/night cycle can go up to 30 degrees Celsius and nights on deserts can be quite cold

 

but talking about a desert itself rather than the operation, its quite unlikely to snow:)

 

a real nice picture btw.