GBU-12 Autolase

[B1Helios]

Hey all,

 

Hoping some of you might be able to answer my question on deploying the GBU-12. After using point track mode on the TGP and making my target SPI (TMS forward long), I set up the profile in the DSMS for the GBU-12.

 

Autolase is on, CCRP is set and profile is saved.

 

As I understand, I can turn on the, 'Latch', function on the TGP to manually fire the laser, however, I thought that b/c I'm using autolase, I don't need to have that feature enabled. But I'm missing my intended target with the GBU-12's. Altitude at bomb release is 9k.

 

Oh and I'm also setting the LS function to 10 seconds in the GBU-12 profile. This should fire the laser during the last 10 seconds of the GBU's flight before impact if I'm understanding it correctly.

 

I apologize in advance as I didn't even think to save a track file. But if need be I can do so the next time I run this particular bombing mission.

 

Cheers,

 

B1

Edited October 20, 2011 by B1Helios

[MTFDarkEagle]

Hi,

 

From your story I suspect autolase isn't happening.

 

Right: Latch just means that the NWS button (to lase) can be pressed once and not keep it pressed, and again push it to stop it lasing.

 

With autolase the latch setting on the TGP is irrelevant.

 

However, back to the issue at hand:

 

Are you selecting the GBU-12's on the DSMS directly?

If so: you need to activate the profile to get autolase to work.

 

Hope this helps,

[B1Helios]

Hi,

 

From your story I suspect autolase isn't happening.

 

Right: Latch just means that the NWS button (to lase) can be pressed once and not keep it pressed, and again push it to stop it lasing.

 

With autolase the latch setting on the TGP is irrelevant.

 

However, back to the issue at hand:

 

Are you selecting the GBU-12's on the DSMS directly?

If so: you need to activate the profile to get autolase to work.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Aha.. ok, so activating the profile was the missing step then. I thought saving the profile activated it?

 

**EDIT** ok, just read I have to go back into the profile and hit, 'Act-Pro', to activate it. Thanks for the quick response MTF. ;)

Edited October 20, 2011 by B1Helios

[MTFDarkEagle]

Yep! That's it :)

 

You'll know when you haven't selected the profile when on the main DSMS page you can see M/*weapon*

In your example it would then be: M/GBU-12, or something of that order (M being manual if you didn't catch that yet ;) ).

 

Glad to be of service :)

[JG2_Miller]

You might also wanna take into account that releasing a GBU from 9k with 10sec autolase might make it miss the target too. The GBU is usually set to a glidepath which would lead a mile or so behind the target to make it easier for the bomb to hit the laser spot and to provide a higher impact angle. Before the bomb can catch the laser, it has to have a specific angle to the ground which is usually reached after about 10 secs from release. In these 10 seconds the bomb of course loses height and may be at around 6k before it catches the laser. This might be too low for it to be able to hit the laser spot. Also if you have the autolase at 10 seconds, the bomb might have lost even more height before the laser starts firing and the seeker can't catch it anymore due to a too high angle of the seeker to the lasing spot and it simply being out of its range.

[MTFDarkEagle]

I find 8 seconds to be very pleasurable from any altitude.

[Fish]

You might also wanna take into account that releasing a GBU from 9k with 10sec autolase might make it miss the target too.............

 

Don't forget you are releasing in CCRP mode, which even without laser, is pretty accurate. So the bomb will fall ballistically toward the target. The laser at the end is the 'fine tuning' part. 8-10 secs works all the time for me, regardless of altitude.

[159th_Viper]

I find 8 seconds to be very pleasurable from any altitude.

 

I bet you say that to all the Girls :P

[Eddie]

Don't forget you are releasing in CCRP mode, which even without laser, is pretty accurate.

 

Depending on release altitude and wind speeds, it can be far from accurate. Hence the need for LGBs in the first place. ;)

 

So the bomb will fall ballistically toward the target..

 

Actually no, it won't (if OPTimal release profile is used). The IFFCC releases the weapon so that is will overshoot the target without any guidance. This is so that the bomb has more energy to manuveure, and there is more likely to hit the target.

 

The laser at the end is the 'fine tuning' part. 8-10 secs works all the time for me, regardless of altitude.

 

8-10 will work fine for most static and slow moving targets, targets moving at higher (normal road speeds) are a different story.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Ha! I knew I used the wrong word there :D

 

8 seconds sound about right though.. Not to mention what happens in those 8 seconds :D

[JG2_Miller]

Actually no, it won't (if OPTimal release profile is used). The IFFCC releases the weapon so that is will overshoot the target without any guidance. This is so that the bomb has more energy to manuveure, and there is more likely to hit the target.

 

:thumbup:

 

That's why I wrote "The GBU is usually set to a glidepath which would lead a mile or so behind the target to make it easier for the bomb to hit the laser spot and to provide a higher impact angle".

[airea]

Now I see that this profile activating thing was also my problem...

Thanks for the replies...

[Fish]

P546

P553

 

 

Depending on release altitude and wind speeds, it can be far from accurate. Hence the need for LGBs in the first place. ;)

Suppose depends on definition of 'accurate'. In this context, its 'accurate' enough to get into the funnel when there's 10s left, up to a farily high altitude. I understood that CCRP attempts to compensate for the wind shift (and I accept that its not a perfect world).

 

Actually no, it won't (if OPTimal release profile is used). The IFFCC releases the weapon so that is will overshoot the target without any guidance. This is so that the bomb has more energy to manuveure, and there is more likely to hit the target.

Interesting. How can I set this, I have only ever used CCRP for LBG's

 

8-10 will work fine for most static and slow moving targets, targets moving at higher (normal road speeds) are a different story.

Would not have considered the LBG a weapon of choice for a road speed moving target, unless is was the newer 'dual mode' type. Not sure they are simulated in DCS. But this is probably subject for another thread.

[Eddie]

Interesting. How can I set this, I have only ever used CCRP for LBG's.

 

It's the default release method. Check the profile setup next time you fly, on the left hand side of the MFD below the min alt setting there will be ORP next OSB 16, pressing the OSB will switch between ORP (Optimal Release) or BAL (Ballistic). BAL is a 'normal' CCRP release, and will result in the bomb 'hitting' the target if without designation. ORP as I said prviously will result in the bomb overshooting the target without designation, this is why very often people never see the bomb impact if the auto lase fails to activate.

 

 

Would not have considered the LBG a weapon of choice for a road speed moving target, unless is was the newer 'dual mode' type. Not sure they are simulated in DCS. But this is probably subject for another thread.

 

In the case of PWII (GBU-12 in USAF speak) no doubt it isn't the first choice, however sometimes, it's the only availabe choice. ;)

[JG2_Miller]

You don't have to set it, it's the standard release mode for all GBUs. However if you want to change it to ballistic release mode, go to your GBU profile page. In the top left corner there should be an option for that (forgot its name).

 

EDIT: Eddie was faster^^

[Harzach]

Aha.. ok, so activating the profile was the missing step then. I thought saving the profile activated it?

 

**EDIT** ok, just read I have to go back into the profile and hit, 'Act-Pro', to activate it. Thanks for the quick response MTF. ;)

 

Alternately, you can select the profile via DMS with the HUD as SOI. For further "idiot-proofing", I also name my profiles so I can see in the HUD that the correct profile is active.

[B1Helios]

Alternately, you can select the profile via DMS with the HUD as SOI. For further "idiot-proofing", I also name my profiles so I can see in the HUD that the correct profile is active.

 

Good point! I remember reading something about this while learning how to employ the AGM's, ie, DMS right short (I think) was used to select the AGM profile. I'll try using this method as well. :thumbup:

 

Admittedly a bit frustrating at first, but I'm having alot of fun learning this bird.

 

Cheers,

[MTFDarkEagle]

DMS right/left short cycles between your profiles (with HUD as SOI obviously..), but does not select the AGM profile specifically.

[B1Helios]

DMS right/left short cycles between your profiles (with HUD as SOI obviously..), but does not select the AGM profile specifically.

 

Thanks MTF. Ya know I am finally starting to memorize some of this stuff. But looking at pages 83 - 87 in the DCS A10 flight manual is still quite overwhelming.. lol:helpsmilie:

[Guest Fury_007]

I recently got into practicing dropping lgb's in ccip mode. Since the bombs already pointing down at release it picks up the laser immediately. That allows a drop at almost any height.

[Fleshpiston]

With my profile set at 10 seconds autolase and latch on I have found at 26K and below all is fine (within reason as I never go below 15k anyway) but if I go to 27K> it will always miss the target is this because the autolase needs to be set to 12 seconds or longer?

[Evil.Bonsai]

With my profile set at 10 seconds autolase and latch on I have found at 26K and below all is fine (within reason as I never go below 15k anyway) but if I go to 27K> it will always miss the target is this because the autolase needs to be set to 12 seconds or longer?

 

Just curious as I've never been that high, but how long is the fall time from that altitude? You might need to utilize a much longer lase time. Maybe by the time your laser turns on (at 12s), the bomb has already missed any window of seeing it reflect off the target. Maybe set it to 20% of actual fall time? I have no idea as I don't think I've ever been over 20k. Were HOG drivers, not SPACE SHUTTLE pilots! :)

[Fleshpiston]

40-50 seconds if I remember rightly.

 

Well if 10 seconds lase works for 26k I should imagine that 12 seconds should work for 27k no?

 

 

As you can see by my avatar hight has never been a problem for me. That is me inverted freefall at 14k.

[gazcrowbar]

Last time I tested the BAL/OPT profile setting it did nothing. The bomb always dropped in the OPT method (about 50-100m long) even in BAL mode. I hope this has been/will be fixed.

 

I've just tried the different settings and they appear to do nothing, tried at 15k, and 4k - just for fun.

 

The bombs land ahead of the target at the same distance for each altitude.

Edited October 21, 2011 by gazcrowbar