Active Pause cuts off engines???

[Alphamale]

In campaign mode, when I use active pause, the engines will cut off and I can't restart them causing me to eject. Is this supposed to happen?

[Fleshpiston]

No that is not a normal function.

 

Could you post a track of it?

[Alphamale]

Sure, ths happens every time I use Active Pause in a Campaign Mission

Engine_cutoff_AutoPause.trk

[Nate--IRL--]

What time in that track do I have to observe?

 

Nate

[Nate--IRL--]

Ok I watched it, you active paused while your A-10 was in negative G (ie you were pushing your nose down). Don't do that. that will kill your engines after 10 seconds, like the real A-10.

 

EDIT:- as a side note to anybody who submits a track, give me a time, i don't appreciate sitting through 20 minutes waiting to see what the problem is.

 

Nate

Edited October 22, 2011 by Nate--IRL--

[Alphamale]

So, you're saying we should not hit AP until the plane has stabilized. You don't mean just nose down.

[159th_Viper]

So, you're saying we should not hit AP until the plane has stabilized. You don't mean just nose down.

 

No.

 

You can be doing the Hokey-Pokey and still hit active-pause........Just ensure that the Accelerometer is not below 0.

[Balu0]

Negative G is a bitch :megalol:

[lobo]

No.

 

You can be doing the Hokey-Pokey and still hit active-pause........Just ensure that the Accelerometer is not below 0.

 

 

“Captain, the engines cannae take much more of this!” Scotty to Capt'n Kirk who was shoving the nose of the enterprise over while active pausing and starving the engines of anti-matter er fuel.

[Alphamale]

No.

 

You can be doing the Hokey-Pokey and still hit active-pause........Just ensure that the Accelerometer is not below 0.

 

Ok, I got it. But while we're talking about G-effects, is it working correctly in this sim? Because I have those effects enabled under options and have taken enough negative Gs to blow my eyeballs outta my skull and smash against the canopy without any indication of "Red-out". In fact, I've never seen red-out indication and "Black-out" only happens once in a blue moon even though I've pulled up sharply enough in a 400 kts dive to lose complete control of the aircraft with no "black-out" tunnel effect.

[Alphamale]

Are the engines on the A-10C carborator or fuel-injected? If the latter, then they should not be cutting out on negative Gs.

[sobek]

"Black-out" only happens once in a blue moon even though I've pulled up sharply enough in a 400 kts dive to lose complete control of the aircraft with no "black-out" tunnel effect.

 

You have to distinguish between instantaneous g and continuous. The human body is able to withstand a surprising amount of instantaneous g without adverse effects. You need to keep those g going for a while, which is not exactly what the A-10 is good at. If you pull it into a stall, g forces are going to go down rapidly. You need to stay on the tone and not go past, while converting potential energy into speed to be able to keep the g force up.

 

Try an inverse immelmann out of a dive without yanking the stick, keep inside the max performance tone and you will see the black out happen.

[Nate--IRL--]

Are the engines on the A-10C carborator or fuel-injected? If the latter, then they should not be cutting out on negative Gs.

 

Uhh they are Jet engines not piston engines. :)

 

Anyway the cause of the fuel starvation is that the Fuel tanks don't have negative G pumps.

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

Ok, I got it. But while we're talking about G-effects, is it working correctly in this sim? Because I have those effects enabled under options and have taken enough negative Gs to blow my eyeballs outta my skull and smash against the canopy without any indication of "Red-out". In fact, I've never seen red-out indication and "Black-out" only happens once in a blue moon even though I've pulled up sharply enough in a 400 kts dive to lose complete control of the aircraft with no "black-out" tunnel effect.

 

There is as always room for improvement and one is hesitant to proclaim that the SIM is dead-on; That said, the tolerance zones are roughly negative 3 to positive 9 sustained before anything is prone to rupture catastrophically.

 

Question is then how did you manage to get the Hawg to a sustained neg 3/pos 9? If you have a track that would be good - as said, always room for improvement :)

[Alphamale]

There is as always room for improvement and one is hesitant to proclaim that the SIM is dead-on; That said, the tolerance zones are roughly negative 3 to positive 9 sustained before anything is prone to rupture catastrophically.

 

Question is then how did you manage to get the Hawg to a sustained neg 3/pos 9? If you have a track that would be good - as said, always room for improvement :)

 

 

How long is "sustained"?

[sobek]

How long is "sustained"?

 

Usually longer than you are going to have energy in the A-10. As i said, instantaneous g don't do diddly squat to black you out. There has to be enough time for the brain cells to run out of their oxygen supply.

[159th_Viper]

How long is "sustained"?

 

Depends on the subject: Anything from 5 seconds to 20 seconds to a couple of minutes. As Sobek said, useless to attempt to replicate any type of G-LOC, Grey-Out, Tunnel-Vision or Red-Out in the A-10C - It's just too slow.

 

Out of interest into human endurance, herewith early NASA test report:

 

19980223621_1998381731.pdf

[Alphamale]

Well, I did manage a spiralling negative G turn and held it for about a minute at starting altitude of 20k and the G-meter showed about -3 the whole time. However, I thought G-effects were cumulative. Not once, did I get a hint of grey, black, or red out UNTIL I passed -3.0 G on the meter then It was complete and not gradual. I also managed an engine cutoff in the process. IIRC, Falcon 4 modelled both Black and Red outs, but perhaps they weren't modelled correctly. And of course you were flying much faster, so I suppose you would notice them that much quicker.

[Alphamale]

Usually longer than you are going to have energy in the A-10. As i said, instantaneous g don't do diddly squat to black you out. There has to be enough time for the brain cells to run out of their oxygen supply.

 

But with negative Gs the blood would be forced to your brain and hence the oxygen. So, I don't see your brain cells running out of it. Unless your breathing could not keep pace and the O2/CO2 exchange was interrupted.

[Alphamale]

Depends on the subject: Anything from 5 seconds to 20 seconds to a couple of minutes. As Sobek said, useless to attempt to replicate any type of G-LOC, Grey-Out, Tunnel-Vision or Red-Out in the A-10C - It's just too slow.

 

Out of interest into human endurance, herewith early NASA test report:

 

[ATTACH]57775[/ATTACH]

 

Then why the G-EFFECTS tab in the Options page?

[Balu0]

Well, I did manage a spiralling negative G turn and held it for about a minute at starting altitude of 20k and the G-meter showed about -3 the whole time. However, I thought G-effects were cumulative. Not once, did I get a hint of grey, black, or red out UNTIL I passed -3.0 G on the meter then It was complete and not gradual. I also managed an engine cutoff in the process. IIRC, Falcon 4 modelled both Black and Red outs, but perhaps they weren't modelled correctly. And of course you were flying much faster, so I suppose you would notice them that much quicker.

 

Let me jump in here as an old Falcon 4 vet.

G-LOC was always and open debate, 10 - 20 page forum arguments about it (and falcon 4 forums were bloody man, these forums are just full of nice guys :D )

If you remember F4Patch had several options for G-LOC, because different groups just could not come to a solid conclusion about what is realistic.

 

Hell even if you ask 10 real pilot about it they will tel you 10 different things.

Why ? Because this is biology and not engineering. In engineering everything have limits and exact values. In nature those limits are much varying.

 

It all depends on the person. Someone will get a blackout from a 5 - 6 sec 4-5 G. Someone won't get it from a 30 sec 9 G turn.

 

It depends.

 

The other thing is that F-16 is a supersonic fighter jet. The A-10 is a pig... literally. The A-10's cruise speed is the F-16's landing speed :DD

 

But both of them have anti-g suits.

 

I can imagine how hard the pilot have to work to get a mild vision loss in the A-10.

 

juts my 2c

[Balu0]

But with negative Gs the blood would be forced to your brain and hence the oxygen. So, I don't see your brain cells running out of it. Unless your breathing could not keep pace and the O2/CO2 exchange was interrupted.

 

At negative Gs you get a "red out" not a black out.. too much blood will get into your brain, and the small blood vessels will burst in your eye, and you vision will go red from the blood. Red out is much more dangerous than a black out, because it can cause permanent eye damage or even stroke.

 

Edit: even harder to get it in the A-10, because before the redout could occur, the A-10's engines will shut down because of lack of fuel supply, in this case the engineering lose to nature, A-10 is not a fighter. (fighter jets are designed to be able to sustain negative G longer, but not forever. You may be surprised but most jets can't fly upside down for too long.)

 

From wiki:

"A redout occurs when the body experiences a negative g-force sufficient to cause a blood flow from the lower parts of the body to the head. It is the inverse effect of a greyout or brownout, where blood flows away from the head to the lower parts of the body. Redouts are potentially dangerous and can cause retinal damage and hemorrhagic stroke."

Edited October 22, 2011 by Balu0

[PeterP]

In campaign mode, when I use active pause, the engines will cut off and I can't restart them causing me to eject. Is this supposed to happen?

Sorry -didn't read all the posts(but it looks that the discussion is getting more complicated than the subject itself...) ....but want to give a clear and simple answer-:

It's not "Active Pause" what's killing your engine - Its the state you been while activating this.

First you have to know that when you hit "Active Pause"it doesn't freeze everything around you - "Active Pause" only freezes your current physical state - means : you cant move - but all parameters inside the aircraft follow the rules of the game-physics.

Like:

You can still be hit by a missile - or enemies can detect you and all liquids inside your aircraft are still fluid...

So - if you are in a dive and have -g. and hit "active pause" the engines will still run as usual but ,because you can't change the velocity -because your airframe is simulating still it's last state, - your engines will run out of fuel because the A10 has no equipment to feed the engines more than 10 seconds in a negative G state...

...hope that answers the question...

(;) better late than never...)

 

 

so with other words: when you turn on "active pause" you turn into a strange static balloon with unusable enormous engines... ...but they still run.

Edited October 22, 2011 by PeterP

[159th_Viper]

Then why the G-EFFECTS tab in the Options page?

 

Because sometimes Bad things happen to Good people..........:music_whistling:

 

Over-G:

 

 

 

 

Recovery:

 

 

 

 

One Pi$$ed-Off Crew Chief:

 

 

 

 

OVER-G.trk