mac22 Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I have been using a saitek x52 for several years and decided its time to replace it and need some advice on what I should replace it with. I will be using it mainly for Black Shark 2 but also for other games flight games FSX/A10/IL2(series). I am just wondering which of the G940/Thrustmaster Warthog/X65f is likely to work best - cost is not really an issue as they all appear to be around the same price - I have already done a bit of research on the forums and i include my conclusions to date below (also note I don't particularly enjoy spending hours and hours setting up profiles!) *The G940 appears one of the best sticks for black shark with its FFB which helps trimming - but it seemed to have many issues at least initally in setting it up for Black Shark - not sure if these have now been resolved? *The Thrustmaster Warthog seems the best stick unsurprisingly for A10 - although lacks FFB - not sure how it plays with Black Shark 2 - also read it comes with many pre configured profiles *x65 appears not to have had many particularly good reviews Any advice on what to buy/links to useful post would be appreciated!
MTFDarkEagle Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 WH! I use it for pretty much the same sims as you (+rise of flight). It's excellent, it feels great, the precision is great! Trust me, you won't regret getting one! Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
ZQuickSilverZ Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I have a G940. It is good for trimming purposes due to force feedback. It has a lot of buttons and is super easy to program. However, it has a lot of slop in the middle (x,Y) and the R1 and R2 wheels jump. Not just on FC or DCS but ALL titles. I tried to use R2 for zoom view (yes I have Track IR) and it had extreme jumps. Its useless. Logitech also has not supported this product. They have done little to fix the slop or rotary problems (1 patch that did NOTHING). As far as the Black Shark it only works if you tape off the sensor. The problem with this is if you alt tab or anything of the sort it throws the stick all over the place. Its loud and could potentially cause damage. If you do not tape the eye you litterly CAN'T take your hand off the stick or you will do an extreme nose down (only in the Black Shark fixed wing uses return to center). The LED's are useless if you like multiplayer (the altered LUA files cause integrity check) failures. Despite these faults I really like the stick but do not expect perfection. Honestly if WH was FFB I would have gotten that. But since I fly BS a lot the G940 more fit my needs. Unless your MOSTLY going to fly Black Shark get the WH. If it was FFB that is what I would have gotten. It is worth noting the FFB timming does not even really work properly with Black Shark. Yet my 10 year old Microsoft Force Feedback 2 worked perfectly. That says something. If my MSFFB2 had more buttons I would get rid of that G940. Edited December 29, 2011 by ZQuickSilverZ I need, I need, I need... What about my wants? QuickSilver original. "Off with his job" Mr Burns on the Simpsons. "I've seen steering wheels / arcade sticks / flight sticks for over a hundred dollars; why be surprised at a 150 dollar item that includes the complexities of this controller?! It has BLINKY LIGHTS!!" author unknown. These titles are listed in the chronological order I purchased them. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MemphisBelle Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 [...](also note I don't particularly enjoy spending hours and hours setting up profiles!)[...] You already answered the question by your self...get the TM HOTAS Warthog. It has best reviews and seems to be the best solution...including your lack of creating own profiles...:D get that one, it will defenetely be my next stick as well... BlackSharkDen | BSD Discord | DCS Tutorial Collection
mac22 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Posted December 29, 2011 Many thanks for the replies! 1)Just wondering if any of the ED testers have offered any opinion on the best stick to use with Black Shark? (I presume they must have tried a few) 2)I think I am coming to the conclusion that the Thrustmaster Warthog is overall the superior stick - however solely for Black Shark the G940 might be the way to go. Trouble is I am not sure how much extra the FFB will add to Black Shark or any of the other sims I would be playing with it - also I was under the impression many of the inital problems with the G940 (such as slop) had been resolved by updates/set up the stick in a particular way?
mac22 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Posted December 29, 2011 MTF Just thought of another question If I go with the WH stick will I need to buy pedals as well? - or can you configure to use without? - If pedals are required which ones would you recommend?
MustangSally Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 IMHO, the best bang for buck are the Saitek Combat pedals. Ryzen 9 7950X3D - MSI MAG X670E TomaHawk MB, ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 AIO 64gig Corsair DDR5@6000, Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 AORUS Winwing Super Taurus, Orion2, TO / Combat panels, Collective with Topgun MIP Winwing Skywalker pedals, NLR Boeing Mil Edition Simpit, 55" Samsung Odyssey Ark, Trackir
Scooternutz Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Warthog! [sIGPIC]https://drive.google.com/file/d/16rUBmmJR7A3YGZVGPGskxG1XtvulGojJ/view?usp=sharing[/sIGPIC]
Scooternutz Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 IMHO, the best bang for buck are the Saitek Combat pedals. The Best!!!!!! [sIGPIC]https://drive.google.com/file/d/16rUBmmJR7A3YGZVGPGskxG1XtvulGojJ/view?usp=sharing[/sIGPIC]
ZQuickSilverZ Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 No they have not been solved. I need, I need, I need... What about my wants? QuickSilver original. "Off with his job" Mr Burns on the Simpsons. "I've seen steering wheels / arcade sticks / flight sticks for over a hundred dollars; why be surprised at a 150 dollar item that includes the complexities of this controller?! It has BLINKY LIGHTS!!" author unknown. These titles are listed in the chronological order I purchased them. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MTFDarkEagle Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 MTF Just thought of another question If I go with the WH stick will I need to buy pedals as well? - or can you configure to use without? - If pedals are required which ones would you recommend? The Warthog does not have twist stick. The thought behind this (as I like to believe it :D) is that TM thought that if you're going to purchase such a high-end stick you would have pedals anyway. If you look at pictures of the WH you can see that gray handle on the throttle base. That's actually another axis. I suppose you could configure that into the rudder pedals, but I would Highly recommend a pair of rudder pedals. As Mustang mentioned: the Saitek Combat Rudder pedals are excellent! *Oh, and to make it plain: Let's just say I've got... a lot of hours in the Ka-50 :D (Think of somewhere around 3000....(I know, no social life)). Both with the X52 which I used to own, and the new WH, and the WH EASILY beats the x52 on ALL fronts! Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
elchacal Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 IMHO the TMWH is one of the best HOTAS, by far.. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Javelin 6 Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Just wanted to chime in on the X-65F. I've had mine for about 9 months and have been lucky that its been drama free. I am however getting a bit paranoid seeing some horror stories associated with its technical support. My only issue is the throttle mini-stick is absolute garbage (as with all Saitek's mini-sticks). The rest of it works flawlessly for me after using the beta drivers. The actual Force Sensing part of the stick is an acquired taste, you will either love it or hate it. For my part, I love the almost telepathic precision I can get from it and the ability adjust the sensitivity on the fly is just icing on the cake. So the take away here is, when it works you will be hard pressed in MY opinion to get more precise HOTAS, that said you will have a lingering thought in your head as to when the thing is going to break on you.
Supersheep Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Hi! The Warthog is the only throttle I know of that allows you to grease the balls, if you fancy this :D. Keep in mind that this has to do with the "sticktioness" or whatever it is called (ask Mower for details...^^) Also, if you want to extend it, there are some creative guys around here, which is helped by the screw-on handle.. I doubt that this is possible (or wanted) with the X 65. For the combat pedals, I do not really know if I would buy them again. I really like what I got, but they are way behind my imagination of those Simpeds (which I have never seen yet and which cost even more $$$). Since I learned that the pro-flight pedals from Saitek use the same internals as the combat edition, I think that they will do ok, too. References Extention (not the best thread, but will do for now) http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=65636 Inside view/sticktion http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=62564&page=3 Grease http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80787 Maybe you already read those, though. Super- The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
mac22 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Posted December 29, 2011 thanks for all the advice! I think based on this Warthog is the way to go so a couple more questions on this stick 1)Does the stick come with some useable pre configured profiles for other games such as Black Shark......?(I hate having to set these up from scratch) 2)On the rudder pedal question I think I will eventually go for the saitek combat or pro flight pedals.....but in the interim I will be using it without pedals (probably assigning the rudders to either the rotery wheel or one of the throttles) - is this interim solution going to be flyable and has anyone tried flying with it? 3)Finally I have read a few posts about the earlier warthog throttles bricking - it seems for a number of reasons - such as using the asus x68 chipset or update the firmware through a usb 3.0 connection - not sure if these issues have been resolved or if i need to be careful? (I am running the asus p67 chipset with i7 cpu - I am very sure some if not all of the connections are usb 3.0)
Supersheep Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Hi mac, the Warthog should not brick anymore. Update the firmware of both the throttle and the stick as soos as you get them, then you should be fine. No need to unplug it all the time anymore, either. For the rudder axis, I would recommend you to use the rotary instead of the throttle. I have not used it yet, but it has a center position and I like the second throttle (for startup, in case you loose an engine to fire or fire (umm, wait, I just re-read that...)). You have to wait for someone who can say something about the profiles, i only fly the A-10 (how could you have the time to learn and fly more than one airframe...??) Super- The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
MTFDarkEagle Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 1)Does the stick come with some useable pre configured profiles for other games such as Black Shark......?(I hate having to set these up from scratch) It does not come with usable profiles as far as I know, but there are several user created profiles around that you can try. I've made my own as well, if you want I can send you mine when the time comes. 2)On the rudder pedal question I think I will eventually go for the saitek combat or pro flight pedals.....but in the interim I will be using it without pedals (probably assigning the rudders to either the rotery wheel or one of the throttles) - is this interim solution going to be flyable and has anyone tried flying with it? I suppose you could use it as an interim solution, but especially for the Ka-50: get pedals :) 3)Finally I have read a few posts about the earlier warthog throttles bricking - it seems for a number of reasons - such as using the asus x68 chipset or update the firmware through a usb 3.0 connection - not sure if these issues have been resolved or if i need to be careful? (I am running the asus p67 chipset with i7 cpu - I am very sure some if not all of the connections are usb 3.0) Update the WH to the latest firmware and you'll be fine ;) The WH uses USB 2.0 connection, but 3.0 is backwards compatible with 2.0, so you can plug 2.0 devices in 3.0 plugs without problems, though you will not have the speedadvantage of 3.0, but you won't need it for the WH. Excellent choise on the WH! You won't be dissapointed! Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
hreich Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 My advice --- go with TM warthog...using profiles you can add trim to no-trim aircraft - for example WWWI planes from ROF, trim to helicopetrs in FSX...etc... Big + [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Pilot from Croatia
mac22 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 MTF many thanks for your reply! 1)Ordered yesterday so should be delivered tomorrow! - would be interested in giving your profiles a try so please could you send - will mainly be using for Black Shark, FSX, IL2 - cliffs, Lock On FC2 and of course A10! - where do I install the profile file once I get? 2)Its interesting that you suggest to update the firmware as I noted that many of the past problems could have been caused by doing this - or is the new firmware more likely to resolve many of the past problems? 3)In terms of how to set the stick up I presume you can disregard any disks and just download from the website drivers and software - I notice there is under drivers on the Thrustmaster site the "2011_TNWH_1_package" file which I understand you need to run first before plugging the stick in - Interestingly I note this package includes the latest firmaware v11(joystick) v20(throttle)) - I guess this will update firmware automatically when the stick is plugged in and once the package file is installed you just need to install the TARGET software 1.0 which again can be taken from the Thrustmaster site - and then your ready to play? 4)I note what you say about the USB connections so I assume you can just plug directly into the computer rather than trying to use any kind of usb hub?
Supersheep Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Hi again! The order in which you set it up does not really matter, I did both in the past and I can confirm that you are ok with loading only the latest software from the web. You do not need an USB hub, I run mine directly connected to the PC (kinda the idea behind USB, isn't it? The WH does not consume so much power...) And since the last firmware update, I have not heard of another bricked unit, for me this is reason enough to believe the error is fixed. So as said above, update ASAP and forget about it. But no, the firmware will not update automatically, you have to initiate this by yourself. See attached guide from Thrustmaster. File is attached. Super-Warthog_Firmware_procedure_Online_v1_ENG.pdf The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
mac22 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Posted December 31, 2011 Super Thanks for the advice - it just arrived now so setting it up now and installing the latest firmware! Just wonder how it works with the different profiles - 1)For playing A10 do you have to load a profile before playing the game 2)From reading the Simhq review I also understood the stick comes with profiles for some other games - where do I find them? 3)I have also managed to find/download a profile for black shark 2 - do you set this up from within the Black Shark game?or do you need to load it before starting the game like the x52?
mac22 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Missed my final question! 4)For Black Shark and A10 - at the moment dont have pedals so want to assign the grey rottery or 2nd throttle as the rudder (just for the moment!) - whats the best way to do this? 5)also forgot to mention that I am using this with track IR - not sure if that should make a difference to how to set it up and if I need to do anything different? Edited December 31, 2011 by mac22
Supersheep Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Hi again and congrats to your new home defence tool (or HOTAS)! [Edit] see answer for first post below[\Edit] I can't comment on BS (or 2), but generally you do this in the Options/Controls menu. Select Sim Mode, filter for Axis commands, select the Pitch axis and click the "Assign Axis" button. At least this is what I remember, I do not have DCS around now. If not correct, it is very similar at least. TrackIR does not change anything by itself as it runs independently on its own. You can make some unused buttons on the Warthog to act as TIR controls (Pause, Recenter) in the TIR software (really recommended, this is!) For the post above (saw it only now): You want to map your trim commands in DCS to the Trim hat (this is what its there for, I guess), because out of the box, that hat moves your view. You do not need to load a profile for the A10, it is plug and play. Again, I cannot comment on any other sims here, maybe there is advice on this somewhere around here. Tip: do not use the forum search, but search using the Google site parameter. Go here to see what I mean and then enter yuor search string. Simplifies things. Enjoy! Super- The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
DayGlow Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 Just wanted to chime in on the X-65F. I've had mine for about 9 months and have been lucky that its been drama free. I am however getting a bit paranoid seeing some horror stories associated with its technical support. My only issue is the throttle mini-stick is absolute garbage (as with all Saitek's mini-sticks). The rest of it works flawlessly for me after using the beta drivers. The actual Force Sensing part of the stick is an acquired taste, you will either love it or hate it. For my part, I love the almost telepathic precision I can get from it and the ability adjust the sensitivity on the fly is just icing on the cake. So the take away here is, when it works you will be hard pressed in MY opinion to get more precise HOTAS, that said you will have a lingering thought in your head as to when the thing is going to break on you. If you have your own pedals you can use this mod to make the mini stick fully analog http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=63794 Look down the thread for the most recent version. "It takes a big man to admit he is wrong...I'm not a big man" Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives 5800X3D - 64gb ram - RTX3080 - Windows 11
mac22 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Posted December 31, 2011 Super thanks for the reply! Not to sure I follow all your reply but I thin your saying that you only use the TH for A10 so can't comment on any other games For the Track IR question using A10 - do you actually need to change anything for it to work?I think you are suggesting changing my view hat switch and reassigning it to do trimming? - and I am assuming you do all this within the A10 options page not TARGET - so to assign the rudder command to the grey rottery (not sure what axis this would be) you do this in the A10 options page?
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