Two MS FFB2 with Cougar Grip

[alphatoomega]

Got my stick build with a warthog handle.

 

 

Took a bit of doing but it just about fits under my chair.

 

 

Now I'm tempted to build a collective and then some rudder pedals that can be trimmed.

 

[Haukka81]

Got my stick build with a warthog handle.

 

[ATTACH]79479[/ATTACH]

 

Took a bit of doing but it just about fits under my chair.

 

[ATTACH]79480[/ATTACH]

 

Now I'm tempted to build a collective and then some rudder pedals that can be trimmed.

 

[ATTACH]79481[/ATTACH]

 

 

Maybe bit nicer look box ?? :D:D Frankestein style now :D

[tietze]

Lovely! More frankenPeters ;-)

[Home Fries]

PeterP,

 

I'm intrigued by this project, and seriously considering my own FrankenPeter. I have a Cougar (modded Uber NXT) with Cubpilot's Hall sensors. Here's a picture of one of the Hall sensors (numbers are in inches):

 

I have some questions:

 

1. Is it possible to use CubPilot's Hall sensors instead of manually installing the sensor and magnet? Reason I ask is that they already display a linear response curve without the need to recalibrate.
   
2. When playing other legacy sims that don't recognize FFB or additional controllers, do the FFB motors keep the stick in a default centered state so that it can be used conventionally?
   
3. What are the dimensions of the speaker box (since I would likely have to build from scratch, and as you say it is a tight fit)?
   
4. I noticed you have the box on stilts. Is this strictly for finding the perfect height, or is there any other reason (e.g. cooling airflow or vibration)?
   
5. And finally, How did you get your chair that way (the gap in the center seat for stick play)? That's actually the what I need to do before I even get started on the FrankenPeter.
   

Thanks for your contributions and inspiration!

[Home Fries]

Another question in general: is there any reason this wouldn't work with the Warthog? It seems to me that the Hog would be a natural candidate for this, being a center stick with future modularity with other sticks that are centered (F/A-18, Su-27).

 

If this can be done with the Warthog, my long term plans may involve doing a FrankenHog and remodding the Cougar as a Force Sensing stick (and keeping it on the right side).

[PeterP]

 

I have some questions:

1. Is it possible to use CubPilot's Hall sensors instead of manually installing the sensor and magnet? Reason I ask is that they already display a linear response curve without the need to recalibrate.
   
2. When playing other legacy sims that don't recognize FFB or additional controllers, do the FFB motors keep the stick in a default centered state so that it can be used conventionally?
   
3. What are the dimensions of the speaker box (since I would likely have to build from scratch, and as you say it is a tight fit)?
   
4. I noticed you have the box on stilts. Is this strictly for finding the perfect height, or is there any other reason (e.g. cooling airflow or vibration)?
   
5. And finally, How did you get your chair that way (the gap in the center seat for stick play)? That's actually the what I need to do before I even get started on the FrankenPeter.
   

Thanks for your contributions and inspiration!

 

Another question in general: is there any reason this wouldn't work with the Warthog? It seems to me that the Hog would be a natural candidate for this, being a center stick with future modularity with other sticks that are centered (F/A-18, Su-27).

 

If this can be done with the Warthog, my long term plans may involve doing a FrankenHog and remodding the Cougar as a Force Sensing stick (and keeping it on the right side).

1. Yes- you have to somhow just conect them on the turning axis of the gimbals of your upper FFB mechanism. - be creative!

 

 

2. Yes - they should work as normal. - but please make your own tests with two attached sticks ad the same time , as "legacy sims" is a wide spread term.

 

3. I hope this is sufficient - all lengths are in centimetres (sorry I don't speak in feet , elbows and spoons ;))

 

The overall dimensions:

 

 

 

4. I did choose this height because of ergonomic reasons - it just fits perfect for my hight adjustable chair - about cooling - make just sure that you have somewhere small vents so that air can circulate - but the motors and power supply normally never get hotter than 50° Celsius.

5. Used tools:

Cutter - to carefully make a opening in the cloth and cutting the foam

Jigsaw - to cut out the square in the wooden plate.

Hot-glue and some nails with big heads - to reattach the cloth around the opening.

Be creative!

Here is the stick in front of my (also) modified office-chair:

 

 

 

General question :

 

No, you can use any stick/device you want - the FFB sticks are not connected to the electronics of the stick that is responsible for the Handel at all.

 

The sim just have to get from all involved devices signals at the same time.

 

So yes , it can be done with the warthog.

Edited May 6, 2013 by PeterP

[molevitch]

Hallo Peter P! I have been so impressed with your FFB2 mod, that I have done one myself. It is almost working brilliantly. I have 2 FFB2s configured your way, and a CH Fighterstick on a long throw cyclic. I will post pics of it all setup when I have time.

 

I have encountered one problem, on which you might be able to advise me. When I am in cockpit, with both FFB2's running, the graphic on screen shows the cyclic shaking, and when I push the cyclic left or right, forward or back it sort of cant make up its mind where it is going. On the Rctrl-Enter red square showing the diamond indicating the cyclic position, the diamoind keeps flicking about....

 

Any ideas? The lower FFB has the pots and cables reversed, and everything else seems correct.

 

Thank you, and keep up the inspiring help and mods!

[PeterP]

...don't use axis input from both MSSFFB2 mechanism. - only have the upper one assigned to pitch and roll. Leave the lower one unassigned. - so both joystick inputs are not 'fighting' each other.

 

Why the upper one? you may ask , - because the upper one has a more direct connection to your movement and is more accurate in the response than the lower one , that is moved by your hand over a second set of gears. The lower one is only responsible to translate extra force to your hand - it shouldn't give axis inputs to the sim.

 

..waiting for your pictures and individual solutions.:) Please make it as detailed as possible...- I would like to put a link in post#1 to show others a alternative way in doing it.

 

another advise: Make sure every screw is protected of vibration (P-51D). I had to re-open my stick during the last year once and fix some screws with "LOCTITE" (nail-vanish will also do the job) - some got loose because my hot-glue wasn't sufficient.

Edited June 21, 2013 by PeterP

[molevitch]

AAAAAAAhhhh, I get it now. Brilliant, thank you. Now the UH1 flies like a chopper! no juddering stick. I will secure the screws once everything is tested and tidied. I plan to add a separate button box from all the buttons left over on the FFB boards, but one that can be plugged in to an external socket , and removed or moved about.

 

Here are some pics below. I made a floor plate to hold the various box elements in place, and also to secure the rolling chair. The 2 holes each side of the cyclic box take the castors of the chair. The box on the left is just a support for the TM Warthog throttle, and I plan to make it pivot to open like a door.

 

All boxes etc made from 9mm MDF board. The cyclic stick is hand bent aluminium tubing, 16mm ext dia. The counter weight on the lower FFB is a brass plumbing fitting filled with melted lead solder. Needs to be heavier though, so will add to the outside.

 

I used 2 MS FFB2b and a CH Fighterstick sticks from eBay. I followed Peter P's instructions carefully, and once I got the hang of it I started to improvise a bit. I used the screw hole tubes from the inside of the FFB housing to fix the PCBs to the cut out parts of the FFB base plate. Base plates hotglued into position inside the box.

 

Please ask if you want to know more. Just going for a quick flight before my wife gets home!

[PeterP]

Thanks !

 

BTW: I feel very lucky for you - because I can clearly remember what a "eye-opener" it was for me to use the stick and feel 'it' for the very first time! Well, maybe not so fancy looking... - but you know that It is much more usable and better working as many others that claim to have the 'Top-notch' and say that FFB isn't really necessary...pfff.

 

Keep it up :)! ..and it somewhat also makes me feel proud to see your work.

(You can't imagine how many PM's I got asking for more details and even giving me advises what I made wrong ... - i answered them all.)

Well, here you are, out of the blue, and you got it put together without 'bothering' me at all - finally! ;):).

Edited June 21, 2013 by PeterP

[molevitch]

Thank you, it makes me proud to be able to show you! I have been simming since the sinclair spectrum! so it is amazing to see how far this has all come. But I never thought I would have the confidence to build my own stick from cannibalized parts....

 

By the way, I also just got a Crossover screen to replace my multi-monitor setup. It looks almost 3D in 2560 x 1600. Highly recommend if you can afford it. From Korea, free shipping (!) and cost about £360. Stunning. With TrackIR its brilliant.

Edited June 21, 2013 by molevitch
forgot to say....

[Roller25]

I've been thinking - would it be at all possible to increase force using one unit by simply changing the gear ratios between the motors and the gimbals? Would that not change how much force is needed to move the stick?

[PeterP]

I've been thinking - would it be at all possible to increase force using one unit by simply changing the gear ratios between the motors and the gimbals? Would that not change how much force is needed to move the stick?

 

 

 

Sorry - not really .

 

;) - our universe works like this:

You only can get back what you put in .- and for each 'transaction' you have to pay a fee...

 

Means: A smaller gear ratio can only build up a bigger friction - and make it less responsive.

This may work to some degree until you hit a threshold where your motors will just be to week to give back the feedback in a reasonable/usable way.

 

To get really a greater force you will defiantly have to use stronger motors when you don't want to rely on the "dual" design.

 

This is a possibility how to do it with the given MSSFFB2 layout:

MS Sidewinder FF2 hacking (increasing the voltage output to hook up stronger motors)

Edited July 11, 2013 by PeterP

[Roller25]

Hmm didn't think it could be that easy...

 

It's hard to find a second ffb2 where I am so I'm trying to find an easy(ish) solution to increase force on one unit..

 

I may have to dive into that hack solution.

[molevitch]

Hmm didn't think it could be that easy...

 

It's hard to find a second ffb2 where I am so I'm trying to find an easy(ish) solution to increase force on one unit..

 

I may have to dive into that hack solution.

I have found that the FFB2 shows up regularly on ebay. In fact recently I bid on and won 3 for this ffb hack of PeterP's. What you pay can vary a lot, but they are certainly available. Where are you based?

[Roller25]

I'm in Australia. They appear sometimes on ebay.

 

PeterP have you attempted the hack? Or has anyone here attempted the hack? I'm wondering just how difficult it is. I'm fairly competent in modifying/building but I haven't much experience reading electronic schematics.

[PeterP]

No

>>>http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1632321#post1632321

[molevitch]

Hi PeterP, I have been having a ball with the Huey and my new cyclic. Planning to build a collective with the leftovers and an aluminium walking stick....

 

BUT, I went back to the KA-50 and I cannot get the cyclic to behave. It will not let me trim properly. If I trim the stick should stay in its new position, yes? But as soon as I release it, it jumps to a different quarter. Say I trim it at forward left, it jumps to forward right, etc. But all the FFB settings are the same as I have been using for the Huey. Can you help me?

 

Best regards,

Molevitch

[PeterP]

You have to set up the same axis setting for each module.

Don't expect that the Ka-.50 behaves the same just because you set it up once for the Huey.

 

 

>>>>Sticky: corrupt calibration? crazy joystick response? Use this tools Fix it:

[Terrorvogel]

Hi PeterP!

 

Due to having problems with my G940, i have bought a second MS FFB2 to recunstruct this amazing unit with the help of your plans. Thx for this!!!

 

I have a question about the suggested the Motor-Mountings:

http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/2...SHLESS-MOTOREN

 

How many sets of this do i have to order? I can´t clearly see at your photos how many of what kind of theese i will need.

 

And maybe you can me tell too, what kind of grease (this sticky white stuff) i can use/buy for the plastic-gears etc.

I believe it is a kind of teflon-paste? But where to buy?

 

 

Best Regards

Terrorvogel

[PeterP]

four motors = four mountings (the middle one with the big round hole in it)

you can see two of them at the right side of this picture:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m561/peterpank1/FFBhallsensors_zpsf1ec88e6.jpg

 

 

 

silicone-grease.

 

Consumer uses

 

Silicone-based lubricants are often used by consumers in applications where other common consumer lubricants, such as petroleum jelly, would damage certain products, such as latex rubber condoms and gaskets on dry-suits. It can be used to lubricate fountain pen mechanisms, preserve O-rings in flashlights, to seal waterproof watches and for O-rings on air rifles. Silicone grease is widely used to lubricate threads of water submersible flashlights used for diving and spearfishing. This grease improves water resistance of the flashlights and protects threads from wearing out. Silicone grease is used with waterproof devices as it has a very thick body and doesn't dissolve in water, most spirits and other liquids. Silicone-based lubricants are also commonly used for remote control hobbies.

Various household uses include lubricating door hinges, shower heads, threads on bolts, garden hose threads or any thread or mechanism that can be lubricated.

Edited October 2, 2013 by PeterP

[BBQ]

Peter --

 

I remember reading somewhere about a mod for the sidewinder 2, so that the FFB is always engaged, so you dont have to have your hand on the stick at all times (when you apply pressure/weight, then it engages AFAIK). Have you done this mod, or heard of it? I need some info on how to do it --

 

Thanks,

 

BBQ

[PeterP]

Peter --

 

I remember reading somewhere about a mod for the sidewinder 2, so that the FFB is always engaged, so you dont have to have your hand on the stick at all times (when you apply pressure/weight, then it engages AFAIK). Have you done this mod, or heard of it? I need some info on how to do it --

 

Thanks,

 

BBQ

Mod A: Use Tape to cover the photocell that detects if a hand is on the stick.

Result: Motors are always powered.

 

Mod B: cutt the wires that goes to the photocell completely and remove it and put in a switch to power the motors on/off.

Result: Motors are powered when I want it.

 

 

 

I use Mod B

[BBQ]

Awesome! Thanks.

 

BTW -- searching around I found this article, and wondered if the Peter referred to, was the same Peter in our great community. Also wondered what you thought of the mod in the article --

 

If the motors are always on (when plugged in), does that mean I cut in half whatever life was left in this beast because of the constant use?

[Terrorvogel]

four motors = four mountings (the middle one with the big round hole in it)

you can see two of them at the right side of this picture:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m561/peterpank1/FFBhallsensors_zpsf1ec88e6.jpg

 

 

 

silicone-grease.

 

 

Thank you, as always, for the fast and detailed information PeterP:thumbup:

 

Best Regards

Terrorvogel