Black Shark at 600kph ?!

[Vecko]

I will be grateful if someone explain to me what is going on? Namely, it's quite possible to fly at enormous speeds in BS2 without any consequences ... Has this bug been reported allready ?

I'm uploading small track file so you could see what i'm talking about...

 

PS:If someone ask me about "game mod" i will kick him in the butt...:)

BSat600kph.trk

Edited January 8, 2012 by Vecko

[Nate--IRL--]

Your collective is bottomed and you are effectively falling out of the sky, what is wrong?

 

Nate

[EtherealN]

Known issue caused by the fact that there's no modeling of transonic shock on the advancing blades.

[Mustur]

What's weird also is that the rotor RPM is 60% at 600kph and the throttle levers are at auto.

 

EDIT: @EtherealN, very interesting. Will it be modeled in the future?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Mustur

[Vecko]

Known issue caused by the fact that there's no modeling of transonic shock on the advancing blades.

 

Tnx for quick answer EtherealN. Should we hope for possible fix in the future?

[EtherealN]

I wouldn't know, but I suspect it is unlikely. It only becomes relevant when flooring the collective and diving almost straight down, but I suspect the trouble of implementing it is major - modeling that kind of thing isn't quite a "bugfix", it's a major really major thing.

 

Though I should have added an "AFAIK" to my response, I'm not 100% sure of this, but it's what I recall on the topic which has been up before. (A year or two back there was even an impromptu competition where people tried to achieve as fast speeds as possible. :D )

[Vecko]

In that case, i hope that we will never see BS3, who knows what will be possible then... 7G at 700kph?! :) I think i'm going to revert on 1.12 again.:)

Edited January 8, 2012 by Vecko

[Nate--IRL--]

In that case, i hope that we will never see BS3, who knows what will be possible then... 7G at 700kph?! :) I think i'm going to revert on 1.12 again.:)

 

You can do the same in BS1 IIRC

 

Nate

[EtherealN]

In that case, i hope that we will never see BS3, who knows what will be possible then... 7G at 700kph?! :) I think i'm going to revert on 1.12 again.:)

 

This is nothing new. The impromptu competition I mentioned was, as I said, years ago. There was no such thing as BS2 back then, you might recall. ;)

[Vecko]

You can do the same in BS1 IIRC

 

Nate

 

Negative Nate, i have tried that last night in 1.12 and nothing. Soon as you push stick forward at high speeds ,instantly you have a rotor salad...But i'm going to test that again...

Edited January 8, 2012 by Vecko

[EtherealN]

Positive Vecko. As I said:

 

(A year or two back there was even an impromptu competition where people tried to achieve as fast speeds as possible. :D )

 

If memory serves, 159_Viper won that one with speeds similar to yours.

 

Edit:

an example I found on youtube

 

m_lLJXOGUHo

 

There are more if you go look, as well as old threads.

Edited January 8, 2012 by EtherealN

[Vecko]

Yes, you're right. I have done more testing in 1.02 and similar "maneuver" is very possible...However, this only confirms the claim that patches and new versions of the game come one after another but old issues still persist...And yes i don't need to revert on 1.02, looks like both versions are broken equally...:D Tnx again...

[EtherealN]

However, this only confirms the claim that patches and new versions of the game come one after another but old issues still persist...

 

Of course it will. There will always be some features that can't make it.

 

I mean, seriously, do you have any idea how much work would be required to model that correctly? This is not something a programmer does over a weekend. I wouldn't be able to say for sure since I wouldn't even know how to start the job myself, but what we are essentially talking about is to do a whole new modeling regime for one of the most difficult things there is to model in aerodynamics, where there is extremely little data to get from real testing of the bird, and all of this to defeat a little issue that is of practically zero effect in the simulator. Sure you can dive really really fast, but you can't really use this for much of anything since being up there is borderline suicide anyhow...

 

Quite simply, if I were the judge (and I'm not), this would fall squarely into the domain of "not worth it". Implementing it would cost a lot of money, and verifying that the results are accurate would be extremely difficult.

 

If you pay for it though and I'm sure they'll do it. :P

[KosPilot]

What's weird also is that the rotor RPM is 60% at 600kph and the throttle levers are at auto.

 

 

Interestingly, the mentioned values indicate a tip speed of advancing blade of Mach.9 at sea level, ISA.

I can only speculate. Due to the drag-forces on the rotor-system (the advancing blades in particular) at such speeds, the turbo-shafts may not provide enough torque to maintain RRMP. Which in turn means that the system is kind'a self-balancing.

or

maybe the BlackShark is intelligent enough to reduce RRPM to avoid transonic shock-waves? Naaah, probably not!

 

The tip of the retreating blade has only 30ms (108kph) wind to work with and can be considered well and truly stalled.

 

Anyways, I would think that the rotor-system should have disintegrated long before reaching this speed due to destructive lead-lag forces applied to the lead-lag hinges and rotor-hub, or the stalled retreating blade flapping uncontrollably into the other rotor. (That, or the Russian engineers are even more splendid in designing helicopters than I ever thought possible!)

[Shein]

Positive Vecko. As I said:

 

 

 

If memory serves, 159_Viper won that one with speeds similar to yours.

 

Edit:

an example I found on youtube

 

m_lLJXOGUHo

 

There are more if you go look, as well as old threads.

 

Don't mean to threadjack, but HOLY CRAP the rotor sounds are AWESOME in that video... is he using a mod? does anyone know how I can make my heli sound like that?! :pilotfly:

[Nate--IRL--]

Don't mean to threadjack, but HOLY CRAP the rotor sounds are AWESOME in that video... is he using a mod? does anyone know how I can make my heli sound like that?! :pilotfly:

 

Try the attached X:\DCS - Black Shark\Sounds\Effects

 

Nate

Effects.rar

[Shein]

Try the attached X:\DCS - Black Shark\Sounds\Effects

 

Nate

 

Thank you thank you THANK YOU!!!

 

Sounds SO much better.

Listen to this

Wouldn't you agree?

 

+1 rep!

[riboyster]

haha holy sh*t 500kph. IIRC even comanche 3 modeled blade stall to some degree.

 

just pokin fun at you DCS guys. obviously I'm a good Hokum pilot and rarely exceed my flight envelope limits. So, is future modelling of blade stall practical? Yes, if you're gonna shoot down a valley in chase by an F-15. No, if you're gonna fly the chopper as it was meant to be flown, using your Shkval wipers to clear the grass and mud from the screen.

[sobek]

haha holy sh*t 500kph. IIRC even comanche 3 modeled blade stall to some degree.

 

Blade stall is modelled. What is not modelled is the advancing blade going supersonic.

[truhlik_fredy]

Try the attached X:\DCS - Black Shark\Sounds\Effects

 

Nate

 

Where it needs to got for BS2?

[Nate--IRL--]

Where it needs to got for BS2?

 

In X:\DCS Black Shark 2\Sounds\Effects\Aircrafts\Engines I think.

 

Nate

[Shein]

I couldn't find it either, so what I ended up doing was just doing a windows search for the name of the sound file, RotorKA50 or something like that, and right clicked then left clicked "open file location" copy and pasted into that folder, overwriting the old files.

 

Did a cold start with the door open just to hear em spin up. LOVE IT!

[Nate--IRL--]

I couldn't find it either, so what I ended up doing was just doing a windows search for the name of the sound file, RotorKA50 or something like that, and right clicked then left clicked "open file location" copy and pasted into that folder, overwriting the old files.

 

Did a cold start with the door open just to hear em spin up. LOVE IT!

 

Good stuff, but the credit should go to Diveplane, all I did was Tweak his original sound MOD.

 

Nate

[truhlik_fredy]

In X:\DCS Black Shark 2\Sounds\Effects\Aircrafts\Engines I think.

 

Nate

 

Yes it's there. I don't know why I ended in next directory near by Sounds\Effects\Aircrafts\Ka-50. Wasn't sure if you are replacing original or the game has the data packed somewhere and uses different as overide if it finds the file in specified location.

[26-J39]

My top speed was 726 with rotors intact, they did mince shortly afterwards :P

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=763704&postcount=49

 

From memory I managed 686 with a "safe" pull out :)

 

Orig thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=45673&highlight=400kph