Combat Tactics

eviliguana966 · February 3, 2012

I'm getting reasonably competent with the mechanics of the aircraft so at this point I'm interested in some info on the best practices for actually employing the A-10 in combat. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find much information in this vein. Are there any good resources out there for combat tactics?

Specifically I'd be interested in things like what weapons work best against what targets. Are there accepted procedures for things like gun runs against AAA? If I recall correctly the GAU-8 outranges the ZSU but I don't recall the safe zone for a gun pass on such a target. In general I'd like to know how close I have to be for the gun to be effective on various targets, and how close to them I have to be before they can shoot back. Also useful would be proper procedures for beating various types of air defense. What maneuvers can defeat missiles and what CM programs work best?

The tutorials available on the Wiki and this forum have been invaluable for learning to fly the plane and I'm just trying to find similar resources for the tactics part of the equation, if such a thing exists.

Headspace · February 3, 2012

I don't think there is a safe zone for a gun pass on such a target--you wouldn't be engaging something like a Shilka with guns. It presents the Shilka with a clear shot at an unmoving (relative to its sight picture) aircraft, which is very bad. Even though you can kill a Shilka with your gun, why would you want to risk your entire aircraft?

Ideally stuff like that should be avoided, or engaged with maverick or PGM from high altitude.

159th_Viper · February 3, 2012

...Are there accepted procedures for things like gun runs against AAA? If I recall correctly the GAU-8 outranges the ZSU but I don't recall the safe zone for a gun pass on such a target...

A safe rule-of-thumb is to disengage no closer than 1nm if you're comfortable with the aircraft. Don't push for the kill and get too close, unless you're engaging armour (0.7-0.4nm being advisable).

Referring specifically to the Shilka, it's always going to be an easy kill. Unfortunately for the Shilka-driver he's pretty much defenceless against the GAU-8. Safe engagement parameters, again depending on your comfort-zone, is anything from 1.5-1.0nm, preferably at a steep dive - you want to drop onto him, fire and disengage.

Herewith track illustrating principle. In this instance all it took was 20 rounds for the kill:

Shilka Kill.trk

Be advised that the range I fired at is applicable to the Zeuss alone - certain other APC/IFV units, while not AAA specifically, will spank you at that range due to more effective weaponry.

Speed · February 3, 2012

I've found that breaking off when the slant range is 1.5 nm is a good rule of thumb for BMPs and Zeuses. Never get greedy and get inside that value, and you will be fine. Neither BMPs nor Zeuses have heavy armor, so you will have no problems killing them from outside 1.5nm.

Anyway, I disagree with Viper about 1.0nm. If you get to 1.0 nm, you're giving the Zeus a reasonably good chance at hitting you. Hell, I think they will even be firing at you before you get to 1.0 nm. It's not fun to be staring down a fire hose of tracers. Certainly, the Zeus will get off some shots at you if you get to 1.0nm. It's better to fire at a Zeus at like 1.9 or 1.8 nm and never even give him a chance. You'll have to use more gun rounds to do the job, but so what? You will be flying back home in one piece.\

Oh yea, and do this in a dive. Like at least, 20 degrees.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Speed

Jona33 · February 3, 2012

Stay out of range of everything and look. Use Markpoints to place vehicles of interest such as SAM's (assuming you're not in a rush but if you see something it's better to be safe than sorry). Find the target and look for nearby threats. Look at your RWR as well for radars. The best way to attack a shilka is out of range Mavericks/GBU's. Gun is a resort when it comes to AA. Experience is the best teacher here. Your no.1 job is to bring yourself and the aircraft home alive. Don't kill yourself for a tempting kill. My preffered tactic is.... "Don't get Shot at" :)

159th_Viper · February 3, 2012

Hell, I think they will even be firing at you before you get to 1.0 nm. .

Incorrect - watch the track :)

Oh yeah - even if you do get closer than 1nm, fire and the Zeuss fires, it's simply a matter of jinxing out of the way of the incoming rounds to avoid any scratches. As I said, it's all dependant on how comfortable you are with your airframe.

Speed · February 3, 2012

Stay out of range of everything and look. Use Markpoints to place vehicles of interest such as SAM's (assuming you're not in a rush but if you see something it's better to be safe than sorry). Find the target and look for nearby threats. Look at your RWR as well for radars. The best way to attack a shilka is out of range Mavericks/GBU's. Gun is a resort when it comes to AA. Experience is the best teacher here. Your no.1 job is to bring yourself and the aircraft home alive. Don't kill yourself for a tempting kill. My preffered tactic is.... "Don't get Shot at" :)

I would agree, but the guy asked about gun tactics against AAA. There ARE tactics to use against them that work- if you pull them off and don't get shot by his buddies. Engaging AAA with guns, even if you do it correctly, can be a very bad idea still, because you shouldn't give up your high altitude perch if you don't need to. Very often, AAA won't be alone- there might be other guns you haven't spotted, or worse yet, IR SAMs.

Speed · February 3, 2012

Incorrect - watch the track :)

Oh yeah - even if you do get closer than 1nm, fire and the Zeuss fires, it's simply a matter of jinxing out of the way of the incoming rounds to avoid any scratches. As I said, it's all dependant on how comfortable you are with your airframe.

Yes, but when you pull out at 1nm, you get a hell of a lot closer to them than 1nm. Your aircraft doesn't immediately reverse. And they will almost always fire at you. When you pull out at 1.5nm, you very often won't enter the Zeus' engagement zone at all. Why get to 1nm and have to avoid enemy fire when you could just kill them from longer ranges and never have to avoid any enemy fire at all? It has nothing to do with how comfortable you are with the airframe, it has more to do with the mindset. I like to avoid getting shot down by not getting fired upon in the first place.

159th_Viper · February 3, 2012

I like to avoid getting shot down by not getting fired upon in the first place.

Me too, hence my advice - Engage before 1nm and you won't get shot at. When you are pulling out, getting closer than 1nm, the Zeuss is already dead so you have no worries. Simplez :)

Speed · February 3, 2012

Me too, hence my advice - Engage before 1nm and you won't get shot at. When you are pulling out, getting closer than 1nm, the Zeuss is already dead so you have no worries. Simplez :)

And if he has Zu-23 and/or BMP buddies you didn't know about? Personally, I like to follow the tactic of killing stuff from as far away as is practical. For example. my guns engagement envelope for MBTs is more around 0.9 to 0.6 nm. Tanks have .50, and while it won't kill you (usually), it's annoying to have MFDs and engines knocked out.

Also, rules are made to be broken, and with a 1.5nm rule, me getting greedy is getting within 1.2 nm, where I'm still relatively safe :)

But hell, I've killed Zeuses from 2.5nm, even 3nm. IIRC, I've even had kills from 3.5nm+ That gun will kill lightly armored targets from a long, long ways away, so the only real excuse you have for getting to 1nm is ammo conservation. You might have to use 50% more ammo at 1.5nm than at 1nm, but that's better than getting fragged by the Zeus's buddies- assuming you actually do kill the Zeus.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Speed

159th_Viper · February 3, 2012

And if he has Zu-23 and/or BMP buddies you didn't know about?

Well then you deserve to get shot down tangling with a Zeuss whilst not knowing of other potential threats to the engagement :)

Eddie · February 3, 2012

Well then you deserve to get shot down tangling with a Zeuss

Full stop.

The sole purpose of any air defence system is to prevent you from accomplishing your mission task. Whether they do that by shooting you down, preventing to reaching your actual target, or forcing you to use your ordnance on them is not important, they have accomplished their objective while you have not.

slowhand · February 3, 2012

Great post!!:thumbup: +1

159th_Viper · February 3, 2012

....they have accomplished their objective while you have not.

That is of course assuming that the mission objective was not the Zeuss in the first instance.

RobbySpike · February 6, 2012

The stationary ZU-23 AAA is no big deal using guns. Short bursts from < 2.0nm will instantly kill em. I usually try to not get any closer than 1.5nm. Shilkas can be annoying. You can try to break radar locks using the jammer or use the terrain for cover. This will take them longer before they open fire on you. Anyway, guns against Shilka is trading risk for saving Mavs

july865 · February 17, 2012

slightly off topic

out of curiosity, when you squeeze off a few rounds. where do the spent shells go?

159th_Viper · February 17, 2012

slightly off topic
out of curiosity, when you squeeze off a few rounds. where do the spent shells go?

Recycled back into the ammo drum.

wannabe · February 17, 2012

Brass aint cheap!

:shocking:

Snoopy · February 17, 2012

Brass aint cheap!
:shocking:

Not a money issue but a FOD issue...you wouldn't want the shells going down an engine and loosing the ACFT...

Frostiken · February 17, 2012

Also offsets the weight difference a little.

july865 · February 17, 2012

sweet. ty

RobC · February 19, 2012

I remember reading that one of the main deficiencies of the Shilka (that lead to replacement with the development of the sa-19) is that they are very susceptible to modern ECM, as were a number of other air defense systems of the era such as the sa-8.

Obviously DCS isn't exactly the same as RL, but I definitely have noticed that the Sam 1 systems and the zeus seem to have a really hard time dealing with jamming. If you fire from 2.0-1.5 nm it seems like it has a lot of trouble trying to burn through the ECM at that range, which is on top of the ballistic disadvantage that it has there. I would assume that IRL the zeus gunner would switch to the optical sight in that sort of situation, but I can't tell if that is in the sim or not.

Regardless, I tend to take more hits from those BMP-3s then Shilkas, and they tend to hurt a lot more :music_whistling:

Sign In

Combat Tactics

Recommended Posts

eviliguana966

Headspace

159th_Viper

Speed

Jona33

159th_Viper

Speed

Speed

159th_Viper

Speed

159th_Viper

Eddie

slowhand

159th_Viper

RobbySpike

july865

159th_Viper

wannabe

Snoopy

Frostiken

july865

RobC

Recently Browsing 0 members