Sound engine

[hubson]

Dear Devs

Please consider adding dedicated fly by sounds for each of the flyable aircraft. This solution might sound bit silly but it works in old F-22 TAW and I think its pretty impressive. It could be optional.

If not-

-please add more sounds like plane distortion and plane wind (triggered at different speeds). Add more flexibility to existing sounds and make them accessible through sounds definition as it is now. What I mean is mainly the possibility to adjust sounds radius, gain, cone and pitch accordingly to the ground speed (for example front engine radius decreased when at subsonic speed, so we cant hear it from far away but distortion kicks in instead etc.)

All the efforts from sound-modders are great and they change the experience of flying the sim a lot. I've been using their work (Zzzspace, Frazer, Archer, Diveplane and others) and love it but its all about balance in their mods and often making some things better while neglecting the others. For instance: using the real sounds of real planes taxing on the runaway is not enough to keep it real ingame from take off to supersonic.

Sound engine we have now is pretty powerful anyway, but there is always room for improvement, is there?:music_whistling:

Thanks ED for the amazing sim(s). Impatiently waiting for the F-15 (run and hide):thumbup:

[EtherealN]

You are aware of the fact that the sound engine already does mach cone, frequency attenuations and all of that?

[Depth]

Try comparing some of these to the F3 view :)

 

 

 

[hubson]

You are aware of the fact that the sound engine already does mach cone, frequency attenuations and all of that?

Yes I am aware of that, Ive played with it a lot. What I have in mind is to expand it even more.

I am not a programmer, so maybe from a technical point of view what I think of is impossible, difficult or processing power consuming, whatever. Its just the idea to get little closer to the real thing in terms of sound, especially flyby sounds.

Lets take the afterburner sound- recorded with good mic straight from behind of the su27 on the airshow. Now we put it into the game and it sounds great until we accelerate to 1000km/h and check F3 flyby camera. What we can hear then from the approaching jet is some strange, annoying high pitched tones because of the doppler effect implemented. Then when the jet is passing "us" (the camera), these tones suddenly drop in pitch again due doppler. Thats not what can be heared from the real plane..

If it was possible to change characteristics of sounds at certain speeds however, we could IMO compensate this to some extent and achive something more realistic. Lets say the speed of 800km/h triggers our afterburner to mute or reduce radius. Then the same speed triggers "plane sound" which gives loud, crisp, ripping sound (with lower pitch to play nice at this speed) This sound could be also positioned slightly behind the plane to simulate the soundwave which follows the jet. And so on.. At present only "plane distortion" works kind of that way- its triggerd during take off, then goes silent and appears again at 1000km/h until supersonic.

I belive such tools could make it easier to get closer to reality.

[hubson]

Well I want to hear what is in the last one of these or

[213]

of course that's what can be heard from the real plane. because you are in f3 camera, not on the ground (or behind its afterburner)

[EtherealN]

One thing I'll say is that this is bigger than just implementing an effect. Remember that what might sound awesome on my 200-dollar sound card and 200 dollar Sennheisers might sound like absolute crap on a more "normal" sound rig - and vice versa. (A bit like the issue with color fidelity - there you might get something that's good and correct on one screen but awful on another, I run a two-screen setup and the the difference between them is extreme.)

 

Yes, sound can need some work, but remember that to get the "full" effect of reality (like I've experienced several times IRL when the 39's come visit) you need to also work with sound echos (like in your video - a lot of the effect is not just the plane, it's also how the sound interacts with the terrain). I totally do not agree with your proposed solution though - your solution is to manually go in an tweak individual sounds, and that's a territory where dragons lie in wait. Positioning things "slightly behind" to simulate this or that depending on speed will introduce sound artefacts whenever there's overlap between the rules (or force you to make a prohibitive amount of said rules and you'd still not be completely rid of it).

 

IMO, the solution is to continue developing the current sound engine, which already has the groundwork for all of this - it already does speed of sound calculations, mach cones, attenuations, doppler effects, all of that. It doesn't do it perfectly, but the solution is not to take a step back and start doing things "by hand" again. All IMHO.

[Depth]

Lets take the afterburner sound- recorded with good mic straight from behind of the su27 on the airshow. Now we put it into the game and it sounds great until we accelerate to 1000km/h and check F3 flyby camera. What we can hear then from the approaching jet is some strange, annoying high pitched tones because of the doppler effect implemented. Then when the jet is passing "us" (the camera), these tones suddenly drop in pitch again due doppler. Thats not what can be heared from the real plane..

Sorry, what? The F3 camera is a stationary observer, you don't hear what you hear inside the real plane when you are standing on the real ground. Of course the doppler effect is implemented, that's how physics works. Wavelength decreases as a moving object transmits soundwaves forward, and decreases as it transmits backwards.

 

You DO hear an annoying pitch sound from an inbound jet in real life, unless it's supersonic in which case you hear absolutely nothing

[badger66]

I love the whistle from the A-10 as it flies past . Not sure if that can be created , cuz that kinda stuff is beyond me .

 

I remember my first PC , an Amstrad CPC464 ..... havent we come a long way !!!

[B25Mitch]

I think DCS has the best sound I've ever heard in a game.

[sobek]

Well I want to hear what is in the last one of these or

 

Well, first you have to stop and differentiate between the sounds of the old planes and the newer ones. Yes, some of the sounds from the old engine can only be called placeholders by newer standards, i give you that.

 

However, the unrealistic sound is not a fault of the doppler effect (listen closely to the f-15 in the vid you quoted, i know that pitch in noise is hard to hear to the untrained ear, but if you concentrate, you can clearly hear the frequency mean of the noise shift down quite a bit), but of the bad composition of the samples used as sound for the plane.

[hubson]

EtherealN, thanks for clarifying some things to me. I felt deep down in my guts that messing with particular sounds, changing their attributes in flight would not be walking in the park, now I know.

Full agreement on dveloping current engine but- developing how? Given the speed of sound is done right, I still think that there should be more than six sounds per plane we have now (four of them affected by rpm and two affected by speed ) . I mean, given more sounds for our disposal would result in some excellent mods from the community.

 

Sorry, what? The F3 camera is a stationary observer, you don't hear what you hear inside the real plane when you are standing on the real ground. Of course the doppler effect is implemented, that's how physics works. Wavelength decreases as a moving object transmits soundwaves forward, and decreases as it transmits backwards.

 

You DO hear an annoying pitch sound from an inbound jet in real life, unless it's supersonic in which case you hear absolutely nothing

 

Well, first you have to stop and differentiate between the sounds of the old planes and the newer ones. Yes, some of the sounds from the old engine can only be called placeholders by newer standards, i give you that.

 

However, the unrealistic sound is not a fault of the doppler effect (listen closely to the f-15 in the vid you quoted, i know that pitch in noise is hard to hear to the untrained ear, but if you concentrate, you can clearly hear the frequency mean of the noise shift down quite a bit), but of the bad composition of the samples used as sound for the plane.

 

Guys, the Doppler effect in game doesn't bother me and I do know what this effect does. Of course it is implemented in the sim and works just fine i guess. Still, the sounds are missing something and I try to find out what it is. If you think otherwise I'm ok with it. Actually the sounds mean a lot for me as the immersion factor and in the future I'd like to have them as real as it gets (compared to the level of other things DCS has to offer its not that odd whish, is it?)

 

I think DCS has the best sound I've ever heard in a game.

 

I agree. Now what?:)

 

I know that ED team is thinking about improvements, its just kind of small reminder from my side.. As long as it is "wish list" and not "request list" thread, I throw my 2 cents.

[hubson]

EtherealN, thanks for clarifying some things to me. I felt deep down in my guts that messing with particular sounds, changing their attributes in flight would not be walking in the park, now I know.

Full agreement on dveloping current engine but- developing how? Given the speed of sound is done right, I still think that there should be more than six sounds per plane we have now (four of them affected by rpm and two affected by speed ) . I mean, given more sounds for our disposal would result in some excellent mods from the community.

 

Sorry, what? The F3 camera is a stationary observer, you don't hear what you hear inside the real plane when you are standing on the real ground. Of course the doppler effect is implemented, that's how physics works. Wavelength decreases as a moving object transmits soundwaves forward, and decreases as it transmits backwards.

 

You DO hear an annoying pitch sound from an inbound jet in real life, unless it's supersonic in which case you hear absolutely nothing

 

Well, first you have to stop and differentiate between the sounds of the old planes and the newer ones. Yes, some of the sounds from the old engine can only be called placeholders by newer standards, i give you that.

 

However, the unrealistic sound is not a fault of the doppler effect (listen closely to the f-15 in the vid you quoted, i know that pitch in noise is hard to hear to the untrained ear, but if you concentrate, you can clearly hear the frequency mean of the noise shift down quite a bit), but of the bad composition of the samples used as sound for the plane.

 

Guys, the Doppler effect in game doesn't bother me and I do know what this effect does. Of course it is implemented in the sim and works just fine i guess. Still, the sounds are missing something and I try to find out what it is. If you think otherwise I'm ok with it. Actually the sounds mean a lot for me as the immersion factor and in the future I'd like to have them as real as it gets (compared to the level of other things DCS has to offer its not that odd whish, is it?)

 

I think DCS has the best sound I've ever heard in a game.

 

I agree. Now what?:)

 

I know that ED team is thinking about improvements, its just kind of small reminder from my side.. As long as it is "wish list" and not "request list" thread, I throw my 2 cents.

[PeterP]

I agree. Now what?:)

 

I would say:

Let's wait how the Mustang will sound in a low pass fly-by.

I think its a lot more complicated to simulate a piston engine with a propeller at high pitch ... than a turbine.

I'm very exited how this will be done!

 

But one thing is sure - the new sound engine is capable to do a lot more than we have heard up to now.

Edited March 2, 2012 by PeterP

[Frazer]

Well I want to hear what is in the last one of these or

 

It is possible to get that sound you are looking for though right now there are too few sounds to do that in a right way. Beside that you really only can get this.....or that....not both. So, I made (and still work on every now and then) a Su-27 soundmod aimed at aerobatic displays and live streaming only. It uses sounds that other aircraft will also use and by that it is not really a suitable soundmod for the whole of lockon (combat flying).

I will add it to this post, though I will not support any requests because I don't have enough time to do other aircraft. Replacing and editing sounds really is easy, though finding the right samples takes ages.

Su27sounds.rar

[hubson]

It is possible to get that sound you are looking for though right now there are too few sounds to do that in a right way. Beside that you really only can get this.....or that....not both. So, I made (and still work on every now and then) a Su-27 soundmod aimed at aerobatic displays and live streaming only. It uses sounds that other aircraft will also use and by that it is not really a suitable soundmod for the whole of lockon (combat flying).

I will add it to this post, though I will not support any requests because I don't have enough time to do other aircraft. Replacing and editing sounds really is easy, though finding the right samples takes ages.

 

Thank you very much for these excellent samples Frazer. I'm actually working on sounds myself a bit. My aim is to get as close as possible to the real high speed pass sound, just to check if its even possible on actual engine. Atm I don't bother making the plane to sound good on the ground, let alone making the balance between both in the air and on the ground scenarios. I have some interesting results but still WIP. Anyway, maybe you would want to use these samples for aerobatic (and not only). Both come from the F15 (I've cut the planeDistortion from youtube video) The speed of 1100km/h recommended:smilewink:

Sounds.rar

[Cali]

You can't hear anything from inside the pit anyway :D

[hubson]

You can't hear anything from inside the pit anyway :D

 

What about flying with the window open and the elbow outside..?

[Cali]

What about flying with the window open and the elbow outside..?

 

Ahhhh, that's only if your part of the kool kat klub....and I'm not that cool.

[Frazer]

:music_whistling:

 

[Longjap]

Well I want to hear what is in the last one of these or

 

If you would hear that last fly-by in a movie you would think it was exaggerated. Eargasm!

 

And I also must say I was very impressed by sound engine in game by default. Only the fast movers could be better. But gunshots bouncing of the mountains, The GAU sounds when you're outside the cockpit.. etc. never heard it in this much detail before.