Improving My Trimming

[goon3r]

Though I've been playing this game on and off since release and finished all the campaigns multiple times I've never really spent much time bothering to trim until recently.

I would usually let the AP do most of the work and be prett much 100% hands on during approach and landing. So I started trying to do A2A Refueling and realized how important trim really is. I've read almost every thread about trim on this forum but I feel like I'm doing something wrong here.

 

Anyways, here is my issue. I have trim mapped to the top hat on my x52 but I feel like the trim is just too sensitive (I have FF disabled). I struggle to keep a constant speed for more than a few seconds and can never hold a set heading either. I let go of the throttle and trim for pitch when my speed is steady but after a few seconds my nose pitches in one direction or the other. I find the left/right trimming particularly troublesome and I'm constantly having having to compensate by pressing the opposite trim. If I go hands off then I endup just drifting in one direction or the other. I feel like each time I press the Trim hat its just too much in that direction. I know folks say trimming the hog is a difficult but it feels like almost impossible for me. I've seen a few videos where folks are flying almost hands off in a straight line to the tanker. I can only dream of that.

 

I'd really appreciate if someone can tell me some steps or post a video illustrating how to properly trim the hog.

[PeterP]

Sorry if I don't speak exactly to you and my posting is more generalised :

 

More speed = more airflow = more lift = more pitching up- and vice versa

 

normally the most used buttons during a flight are the trim buttons.

 

So Trim is essential for having a controlled flightpath.

further: have please at least "Trim nose down + trim nose up" mapped at a buttons you can always reach.

 

And as long you don't have a FFB-controller leave FFB=off

 

I don't share this experienced "Too much Trim" that you are having. - but I only use most of the times only a short "click". (keep in mind that "Trim" is a continuous command - not a single press when executed.)

 

The right way to "Trim" : - make your manoeuvre - than stabilise - and if you can't fly "Hands free" on this path - use trim to correct this.

 

 

 

- how long you are holding the trim buttons down ?

 

(BTW in RL or you have a FFB stick the trim will also move the stick , according your input. - something that can't simulated with a normal joystick - so - there is the CTRL-Indicator "CRTL+Enter" -. and you will see two carats -.

One is representing your axis input and the smaller one is how you have set the trim

so you can easily see how your set the trim - That is to overcome the discrepancy. In RL you would notice instantly if you have applied too much trim - it would pull your arm! while trying to fly level. ...- so sometimes - you have to use the "CTRL-Indicator" to do it properly)

Edited March 3, 2012 by PeterP

[doright]

...in RL or you have a FFB stick the trim will also move the stick , according your input. - something that can't simulated with a normal joystick...

 

As generalized as you can ever get about aircraft systems (there are always exceptions)... from the pilots point of view trim doesn't move the stick. The pilot is holding the stick in a position that obtains the desired flight path. They then trim to remove the force they were exerting to hold the stick in that position. The stick doesn't move but the pilot no longer has to exert force to hold it there (courtesy trim tabs, feel systems, etc.). This feels very natural and usually only requires very tiny adjustments after initial trim application.

 

Trimming in a simulator is much more difficult then in r/l. Trimming a simulator you have to establish a flight path, trim, move stick closer to center, restablish flight path, trim, move stick closer to center, rinse, repeat... and you can't be sure if you just mistrimmed or the plane just responded to turbulence.

 

Forget all the shacking and hockey effects, just let me feel trim taking the load off the joystick in a stationary position. A feedback stick that did this trimming behaviour alone, I will name him George, and I will hug him, and pet him, and squeeze him.

[PeterP]

As generalized as you can ever get about aircraft systems (there are always exceptions)... from the pilots point of view trim doesn't move the stick.

 

The Stick is moving according your to trim settings in the A-10.

This in real-life and also in the Simulation when using a FFB stick.

[goon3r]

The Stick is moving according your to trim settings in the A-10.

This in real-life and also in the Simulation when using a FFB stick.

 

Thanks for making that video peter. It really illustrates the mechanics behind trimming. I think it will be a great help for beginners. For me, it basically confirms that my understanding of what trim does in RL (or with a FFB) stick is correct.

 

 

- how long you are holding the trim buttons down ?

Usually, I just give a quick press of the hat. Maybe .5 of a second but that seems to be always too much to keep level. I usual fly with the CTRL-Indicator on and I can see the small Carat Moving as I Trim.

 

I'll try to post a video/track to illustrate where I'm having issues.

 

A feedback stick that did this trimming behaviour alone, I will name him George, and I will hug him, and pet him, and squeeze him.

 

[PeterP]

Usually, I just give a quick press of the hat. Maybe .5

 

That sure is too much - When I hold down the trim nose-down button for 500ms I'm sure that I will face the ground very soon - when I don't counteract on the dive.

My clicks are around 70-120ms in average when doing fine adjustments.

 

Do it like a short moue-click - and re do it again when you don't have the desired pitch.

 

When you start to hold it down and waiting for the response of the airframe - it is already too late . and you have trimmed to much.:)

Edited March 3, 2012 by PeterP

[effte]

Thanks for making that video peter. It really illustrates the mechanics behind trimming. I think it will be a great help for beginners. For me, it basically confirms that my understanding of what trim does in RL (or with a FFB) stick is correct.

 

If you can handle the full truth, here's a bit of reading:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1150637&postcount=23

 

If you let go of the stick and trim, the stick will move. Normally, this is not how it is done though. You hold the stick in a fixed position and trim until it requires no force... or, rather, you keep the aircraft doing what you want it to do and trim until doing so requires no force.

 

The truth is out there - both of them! :D

[goon3r]

That sure is too much - When I hold down the trim nose-down button for 500ms I'm sure that I will face the ground very soon - when I don't counteract on the dive.

My clicks are around 70-120ms in average when doing fine adjustments.

 

Do it like a short moue-click - and re do it again when you don't have the desired pitch.

 

When you start to hold it down and waiting for the response of the airframe - it is already too late . and you have trimmed to much.:)

 

Usually my finer adjustments are a pretty quick, its a heck of a lot less than .5s. Still, I'm pretty sure you're right that I'm giving too much trim, even with my short flick of the hat. I think I'll try remapping to a different hat on the stick. Lets see how that works.

 

If you can handle the full truth, here's a bit of reading:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1150637&postcount=23

 

If you let go of the stick and trim, the stick will move. Normally, this is not how it is done though. You hold the stick in a fixed position and trim until it requires no force... or, rather, you keep the aircraft doing what you want it to do and trim until doing so requires no force.

 

The truth is out there - both of them! :D

 

I've read that post a couple of times already effte, that was quite the writeup you did. :thumbup:

[asparagin]

That sure is too much - When I hold down the trim nose-down button for 500ms I'm sure that I will face the ground very soon - when I don't counteract on the dive.

My clicks are around 70-120ms in average when doing fine adjustments.

 

Do it like a short moue-click - and re do it again when you don't have the desired pitch.

 

I find the default trim input (for "one click") to be too much when I want to fine-trim.

Is there a way to make the trim input even more sensitive? Less change per click (edit config file or smth)

[K2mil]

I'm having same problem like OP I really never successful did air to air refuling seam like the plane would overtrim any how now I know the trim button press needs to be super short and hopefully somone here will tell us how to decrease the sensitivity of the trim

[ptako]

Anyways, here is my issue. I have trim mapped to the top hat on my x52 but I feel like the trim is just too sensitive

 

The solution for me was binding trim controls not in game, but in Saitek's profile editor.

If you map them there as advaced or macro key sequence you can set the times they're pushed/released.

 

Quantitizing time there to 0.05 will give you good sensitivity of trim.

You can also set repeating of key sequence there if you want to trim faster when holding hat longer.

 

There is a post describing this approach: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1349620#post1349620

Edited March 11, 2013 by ptako

[WildBillKelsoe]

Look at the wings with rolls, the HUD TVV for elevators, and the ball for yaw trim.

[asparagin]

The solution for me was binding trim controls not in game, but in Saitek's profile editor.

If you map them there as advaced or macro key sequence you can set the times they're pushed/released.

 

Quantitizing time there to 0.05 will give you good sensitivity of trim.

You can also set repeating of key sequence there if you want to trim faster when holding hat longer.

 

There is a post describing this approach: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1349620#post1349620

 

Thx, that´s a way to do it. I was hoping it´s also possible with DCS.

[schkorpio]

just wondering if any planes have automatic trim? seems like even the a-10's simple auto pilot you could have it auto trim so that the TVV stays at the angle you have set with your joystick.

[112th_Rossi]

Yes most modern fighters have auto-trim. A10 doesn't though.