This is bull!

[hotray]

I would like to know though, if this reg tool would work if I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled Windows?

 

 

No it does not.

 

Before reformatting, you have to copy your regkeys-file on a Floppy-Disk, USB-stick or on an external HDD.

After reinstalling Windows and FC you paste it back into your Flaming Cliffs Folder an run it (doubleclick)

 

Then it works, if you didn't change hardware.

No further activation required. :icon_wink

[Groove]

This thread wouldn't be here if StarForce wasn't such a poor piece of software.

 

Issue #1 - they chose to delete your activation key info from registry once you uninstall FC. (this actually is partly problem on ED-side too). If they chose not to do that then Buzzu would still have a couple of activation left. Those who don't plan to install FC anymore would have about 1kB of their hard disk wasted - which with today's HD prices cost about 0.001 of a penny. For those outraged by this cost ED could provide tool to completely remove activation key(s) from registry instead of providing tool to back-up activation key and then restore it.

 

Issue #2 - SF is supposed to bind your FC copy to particular hardware. Why then they chose to use things like "computer name", "hard disk label" in SF hardware key? Computer name and disk label are not hardware attributes and they are in category of things I can change a couple of times per day without thinking that I should re-buy any software installed on that PC because of that ...

 

Issue #3 - why HKEY_CURRENT_USER registry hive is used for storage of SF activation keys ? For this reason SF asked me for SECOND activation key two minutes after I installed FC and activated it. Why ? Because I install things logged in as Administrator, and then run (any) software using different (non-admin) windows account - this is good for your system health as it makes it harder for viruses/spyware to get in. So basically, each time you log into computer with using different login name and try to play FC - SF asks for new activation. This problem wouldn't be there if SF chose to use HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE registry hive instead.

 

Issue #3 - why SF needs to be installed as a system driver (I asked this question before but nobody from SF or ED bothered to answer) ? I am quite careful about security vulnerabilities - and installing a driver from unknown software developer bothers me a lot. A lot of people raised their security concers about SF and it's prior history of security vulnerabilities even before FC was released. A lot of these concerns could be shut off if SF would not require admin priviledges to install or run.

 

Thx for the info !

 

How "dumb" is this ? I thought that the hash is based on my hardware and not the name im logged on with or the label of my hardware. Sorry but i dont understand why they didnt used just the hardware id`s.

[Weta43]

Hotray's got the answer, the whole buy and download thing's been a bit of a PR (pause while I think of an appropriate word) - disaster - hasn't it.

I got the disk & have had no problems at all - not even buring CDs etc.

Very happy with FC & looking forward to (first the patch then) 1.2.

A CD is worth a couple of bucks - don't know what they pay starforce to administer handing out new activations but in PR alone it would be worth giving download owners a CD at (production, not wholesale) cost + shipping if they want it.

And for 1.2 - just get the disks ready & in the shops - skip the download option...

[suntrace1]

I had to sleep, but when i woke up, i surely didn't hope to see this happening.

 

This is so wrong on so many levels, i can not express. I could take out qoutes and bash them, because they're based on absolutely nothing, but i wont. What a waste of time that would be and i wasted enough already (so it seems).

 

And tnx Ice for finding those quotes, at least i know now, i didn't imagine it all up. And if i think i persuaded a few people to buy d/l version instead the CD...

 

I really hope i'm wrong, i still do. Will check this thread tommorow. If it doesn't turn alright for you BuzzU, i'll mail you (if you want ofcourse) my own last activation key from initial five i got and deinstall everything that comes from ED and move on. Because this is not the place to be and people i want to hang with.

[britgliderpilot]

Hmmn.

 

 

I was sure I remembered ED saying they'd allow new serial numbers if you used up all your activations . . . . and I'm pretty sure that someone's posted that they got given a new serial number by ED.

 

 

There's something amiss here - it's not what we were told to expect, and it's just not cricket. They've got the data saying which users bought FC over the net, they can check it.

[Weta43]

I also remember that message being put out.

[Shaman]

I've already wasted two activations. Because I had to reactivate FC after motherboard change. Registry saving tool did not help.

How many activations do I have left?

[Mike Cinch Perry]

On ED giving out serials.

 

It was not ED that was doing this, I had used all mine at first, when I was upgrading my mobo, video card and sound card, plus other stuff.

 

I contacted the people at starforce and told them my problem, and bingo I was given more installs. I know this might sound a little far fetched. but that is what I did and so far so good, on the key saver whatever, never worked for me either.

 

Hope this might help but if it dont dont know what to say!!!

 

 

Cinch

[RvEFoxteR]

Can anyone explain me why didn't I get the promised 15 activations when I activated once manually. I only got 2 left now, got 5 in the first place. I spent 2 when I had some really big issues with my pc and that ones I activated automaticly. Some time after I reinstalled FC and tried manual activation from star force site. Everything went cool but then I expected to have aditional 12 activations I only had 2 left. From that day I started using reg tool and it worked fine but thats not the issue, I should have got 15 in the first place as many did. A friend of mine has the exact same problem. I hope someone knows whats the deal with my and his account.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

This thread wouldn't be here if StarForce wasn't such a poor piece of software.

 

Issue #1 - they chose to delete your activation key info from registry once you uninstall FC. (this actually is partly problem on ED-side too). If they chose not to do that then Buzzu would still have a couple of activation left. Those who don't plan to install FC anymore would have about 1kB of their hard disk wasted - which with today's HD prices cost about 0.001 of a penny. For those outraged by this cost ED could provide tool to completely remove activation key(s) from registry instead of providing tool to back-up activation key and then restore it.

 

Issue #2 - SF is supposed to bind your FC copy to particular hardware. Why then they chose to use things like "computer name", "hard disk label" in SF hardware key? Computer name and disk label are not hardware attributes and they are in category of things I can change a couple of times per day without thinking that I should re-buy any software installed on that PC because of that ...

 

Issue #3 - why HKEY_CURRENT_USER registry hive is used for storage of SF activation keys ? For this reason SF asked me for SECOND activation key two minutes after I installed FC and activated it. Why ? Because I install things logged in as Administrator, and then run (any) software using different (non-admin) windows account - this is good for your system health as it makes it harder for viruses/spyware to get in. So basically, each time you log into computer with using different login name and try to play FC - SF asks for new activation. This problem wouldn't be there if SF chose to use HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE registry hive instead.

 

Issue #3 - why SF needs to be installed as a system driver (I asked this question before but nobody from SF or ED bothered to answer) ? I am quite careful about security vulnerabilities - and installing a driver from unknown software developer bothers me a lot. A lot of people raised their security concers about SF and it's prior history of security vulnerabilities even before FC was released. A lot of these concerns could be shut off if SF would not require admin priviledges to install or run.

 

Now, this is a good post! Facts, facts, facts! That is what we need! I am obviosly not a power computer user so I do not have any of the problems listed above. So, these are the things Eagle Dynamics and StarFOrce need to comment on!

[BuzzU]

Now that I think back. I started with 5 activations. Later because everybody complained we were given 15 total activations. So, at some point they gave me more activations without changing my serial #, because my serial# has never changed. If they did that once, why not again? Why all of a sudden do they need to assign a new serial#?

[GGTharos]

Because, if you had unlimited (or more) activation 'just 'cause' then you co uld give your key to friends etc. and it wouldn't prevent piracy at all.

[bflagg]

Because, if you had unlimited (or more) activation 'just 'cause' then you co uld give your key to friends etc. and it wouldn't prevent piracy at all.

 

GGTharos.. c'mon... stop being so "Pro ED" no matter the subject..

If this guy is legit and starforce / ED can tell by the hardware key being submitted... then ED MUST give this gent more activations.

 

No where in the install license agreement does it say, "you can only install

this software "X" amount of times". ( i remember Wags(?) posting ED will reissue activations as necessary when the starface issue first came up)

 

Look.. I appreciate and respect your POV on many things you post, and

may or may not agree with them, but you always seem to take the pro ED side no matter what the issue is...

[Dudikoff]

Can anyone explain me why didn't I get the promised 15 activations when I activated once manually. I only got 2 left now, got 5 in the first place.

 

I have the same problem. I asked already but to no avail so I'm bumping this issue..

[GGTharos]

GGTharos.. c'mon... stop being so "Pro ED" no matter the subject..

If this guy is legit and starforce / ED can tell by the hardware key being submitted... then ED MUST give this gent more activations.

 

No where in the install license agreement does it say, "you can only install

this software "X" amount of times". ( i remember Wags(?) posting ED will reissue activations as necessary when the starface issue first came up)

 

Look.. I appreciate and respect your POV on many things you post, and

may or may not agree with them, but you always seem to take the pro ED side no matter what the issue is...

 

 

My answer was purely from the perspective of why and how SF is supposed to work; I don't taint everything I say with politics - this one was pragmatic. Unlimited license keys/reinstalls per key=no point in using Starforce. Think about it.

 

If one key makes it out to some public server (and it WOULD happen) with unlimited installs, that's it - the CP no longer protects anything.

 

I think I didn't answer the original question completely though - I think assigning a new serial number is a function of database maintainance ... ie. it is easier to do than modifying individual accounts to give more activations to them - that's just an assumption on my part though.

[Trident]

Because, if you had unlimited (or more) activation 'just 'cause' then you co uld give your key to friends etc. and it wouldn't prevent piracy at all.

 

Yes, but I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to see how people will consider paying again for something they've already purchased as bizarre and unfair. Particularly if they've done nothing illegal and CD-version users don't have this problem. I have 14 activations left and can't see myself running out but it still irks me somehow even though I'm not going to claim I didn't know about the limitation.

 

The fact that, if nothing else, Starforce is obviously rather successful at preventing piracy makes this a very tough situation - I can understand ED being pretty pleased with this but OTOH it's undeniable that a system like the current one is asking a bit much from the user. I hope that this timely discussion makes ED reconsider for v1.2 and look at Starforce configurations which eleminate this problem. It also shows that ED really does need someone who is responsible for PR with English speaking users: not doubt they're only human but the western community could be spared a lot of confusion and ruffled feathers in situations like this ;)

 

As for the 15 activations issue, when did you activate the last time? The number was raised only a few weeks after release, so this might not have taken place at that point. Maybe the 10 additional ones are only displayed after the first 5 are used?

[GGTharos]

I think ED should simply not do the download thing any more. Just sell CDs only - that would solve these particular problems. Or, configure SF to not ask for more activations if the hardware key is the same as it was before (or specifically, to not use up activations) and NOT take windows reinstalls into consideration, or the HD label and whatnot. That's a pretty annoying thing to do things. Yes, it opens up the possibility of piracy a little more (someone with the exact same configuration could use your serial number without triggering an activation) but I don't think this will be a big problem piracy-wise.

 

In the end, I think they should just find a CD distributor for the west and that's that.

[enigma6584]

In the end, I think they should just find a CD distributor for the west and that's that.

 

They did and the distributor is excellent. I sure am glad I elected to wait and purchase the CD distribution of the game. Once again...and I mean this with the most heartfelt sincerity...THANK YOU Natural Point.

[bflagg]

My answer was purely from the perspective of why and how SF is supposed to work; I don't taint everything I say with politics - this one was pragmatic. Unlimited license keys/reinstalls per key=no point in using Starforce. Think about it.

 

If one key makes it out to some public server (and it WOULD happen) with unlimited installs, that's it - the CP no longer protects anything.

 

I think I didn't answer the original question completely though - I think assigning a new serial number is a function of database maintainance ... ie. it is easier to do than modifying individual accounts to give more activations to them - that's just an assumption on my part though.

 

Unlimited installs or not... it the price of doing business. Yes. Stop gaps should be imployed to limit piracy(it will happen) , but at the same time they have to allow their customers to install their purchased software on their

own machine reguardless of time frame or hardware differences.

 

If this gent was giving out the key or installing on his friends machines and using a activation code, it could be tracked, because there will be too many

hardwareID keys being submitted at time of activation and logged on the

starfarce server (or should be)

 

I waited for the CD just for this situation...and it payed off. In the last

3 months, my machine has been crashing, doing weird things, and I've reinstalled more times than I can count. (troubleshooting a ATI MMC driver issue). I even upgraded a bit .. P4 3.2e, SoundCard change, 1.5 gig mem, Raptor HD..

Under the current activation scheme that ed/starforce provides for downloadable software, I would have been succinctly screwed.

 

anyway, someone's at my door complaining that they can't print so I gotta go show them the wonderfull usefullness of the power button...

 

TTL.

[Cosmonaut]

I still can't understand why they won't give BuzzU another set of activations. He can prove proof of purchase and this is his first time asking ED for more activations. If a customer continuously puts the burden on ED by repeated requests of this type then I can understand ED requiring the customer to repurchase the product but after only one request? This seems a little harsh to say the least especially knowing that if StarForce had worked as advertised in the beginning then BuzzU probably would have only used up one activation on his initial install.

 

I assume ED's profit margin is higher from customers downloading their product as apposed to buying the CD but will anyone risk downloading again for any future addons released??

[GGTharos]

Unlimited installs or not... it the price of doing business. Yes. Stop gaps should be imployed to limit piracy(it will happen) , but at the same time they have to allow their customers to install their purchased software on their

own machine reguardless of time frame or hardware differences.

 

Sure - I mean, that's ideal. What it isn't is practical (at elast in an automated fashion)

 

If this gent was giving out the key or installing on his friends machines and using a activation code, it could be tracked, because there will be too many

hardwareID keys being submitted at time of activation and logged on the

starfarce server (or should be)

 

Or in whatever manner, sure. As with everything, this method could be evaded. You need a harder-to-evade method.

I think giving 2 activations per month, automatically (or even a single one) would be useful - this would limit piracy significantly and allow people to reinstall at will. The serial identifies the customer after all.

As I said, the solution should have been implemented differently. I think suggesting alternate solutions is better than threatening leave the sandbox ;)

 

I waited for the CD just for this situation...and it payed off. In the last

3 months, my machine has been crashing, doing weird things, and I've reinstalled more times than I can count. (troubleshooting a ATI MMC driver issue). I even upgraded a bit .. P4 3.2e, SoundCard change, 1.5 gig mem, Raptor HD..

Under the current activation scheme that ed/starforce provides for downloadable software, I would have been succinctly screwed.

 

Indeed - so, good for you in this case. Personally neither I not any of the people I know have had any big problems with FC. That's no reason to not address the issue - but on the other hand, I don't think it's ridiculously urgent - with the assumption that this problem would be fixed in one way or another in 1.2.

 

anyway, someone's at my door complaining that they can't print so I gotta go show them the wonderfull usefullness of the power button...

 

TTL.

 

Just put their print queue behind everyone else's. ;)

[Guest IguanaKing]

GG, there is more to a hardware code than just the part numbers of the installed equipment, they all have a unique hardware ID as well. This cannot be circumvented simply by installing it on a machine with exactly the same configuration. I really hope that ED understands this, because the defenders of this policy don't quite seem to understand that. Yes, piracy happens, and it will always happen, but like bflagg said, its the cost of doing business. Any business that uses the possibility of abuse as an excuse to take advantage of their paying customers...well...they won't be in business for very long. BTW...most software EULA's, with the exception of those for OEM software, do not have usage limitations, and can be transferred from one machine to another when the license on the old machine has been deactivated. Like I have said many times, if ED wants to play it that way, then they will find themselves losing the trust of their customers.

[GGTharos]

I think a couple things need to be taken into consideration:

 

This is the first time ED uses such a CP scheme. What's happening right now was probably something they didn't predict - not that it's an epidemic or anything, but it needs to be fixed. Maybe they'll release an SF patch, maybe they won't touch it until 1.2.

 

ED has some business rules concerning issuance of new serials, whatever those business rules may be. They have provided tools to help with problems, and frankly I'd find someone burning up 15 activations pretty suspicious.

 

I'm aware that the hardware have unique ID codes, but I think SF doesn't use them - it just sees that the generated key is different and that's that. The big culprit here is the windows reinstall - if you can verify that all the hardware is the same and just windows was reinstalled, there's no need to blow an activation.

 

Anyway, like I said, there are a lot of problems with the current scheme, and it's more useful to think of alternatives than bash the current one, which, despite irritating some customers, has done its job.

[Ice]

Two things that should be clarified.

 

Only those that purchased Flaming Cliffs when PayPal was the only way were given an extra 10 activations. This was due to activation problems. Once the product became available again only 5 (the norm) were available.

 

The other is that Starforce made it clear that the reissue of activation keys is a matter for ED. Starforce are not responsible for this decision.

[Trident]

I think ED should simply not do the download thing any more. Just sell CDs only - that would solve these particular problems.

 

Not going to happen IMHO. They've probably invested way too much time and money into this distribution system.

 

Or, configure SF to not ask for more activations if the hardware key is the same as it was before (or specifically, to not use up activations) and NOT take windows reinstalls into consideration, or the HD label and whatnot. That's a pretty annoying thing to do things. Yes, it opens up the possibility of piracy a little more (someone with the exact same configuration could use your serial number without triggering an activation) but I don't think this will be a big problem piracy-wise.

 

If that's possible it would be a much more acceptable way of doing it. I'm not very computer-savvy but initially it was claimed that we'd only need to use an activation when changing more than 40% of our hardware - something that is much closer to what you describe rather than what we have now.

 

Basically, reactivating would only be required after a major hardware upgrade or changing computers altogether - in which case 15 activations would really be plenty. Even at 2 *major* upgrades a year (smaller ones would hopefully not cause trouble in the first place) the game would likely be abandon-ware by the time you run out ;)