Pop-up attacks with the A-10C

[jazjar]

I was wondering if anyone had any tips or hints for conducting decent pop-up attacks. The maneuver seems perfectly suited to a lot of missions in DCS A-10, such as the Devil's Cross campaign, where it would work well attacking AAA and SHORAD protected convoys and you don't have enough maverick ammo to take out all the air defenses.

[Eddie]

What exactly are you after? It's possible to write a very, very, very long wall of text on this subject so if you are more specific in what aspects of a pop-up/bump-up attack you need help with it'd be much easier to answer.

[roob]

I've got one!

 

When doing a pop-up attack with drop munitions, how do you acquire a target in the short amount of time that you have? I guess mark points would be good if one could see the target area before running in. But let's say it's mountaineous terrain and we have no idea what to expect.

[dikkeduif]

I think when doing a popup attack you should already know where you target is and have a markpoint over it at least. You need to stay low, climb up, roll in and drop bombs. I don't think it will work well when you don't really know where your target is.

[badger66]

This might help a little .

 

[roob]

For the sake of argument, let's say we have a satellite photo of the target area :)

Edited July 5, 2012 by roob

[Whisky One]

I'm also curious what an ideal transition would be from terrainmasking (low&slow) to a popup attack. like how many miles before you reach the target do you put the flaps up,disable the speedbrake (if applicable) and with what speed do you initiate the popup?

[dikkeduif]

Maybe a popup attack is not the best solution when you don't really know where your target is? :) I thought a popup was performed on preplanned steerpoints/targets. Isn't a popup supposed to be a surprise attack, in and out.

 

When reading vipers in the storm (f16) the author describes a nose 15 degrees up 4.7 miles from target until a height of 2400, turn into the targets, dive 10 degrees, drop bombs and get out or something similar. And they go pretty fast, 500 kts and up I think.

 

Of course the A10 is another beast.

Edited July 5, 2012 by dikkeduif

[Ghanja]

I thought a popup was performed on preplanned steerpoints/targets.

Yes, they are all programmed into the system.

[sungsam]

How much efficiently the pop up attack could be by performing it on a slow mover like A10C ? especialy the indirect popup, as shown above ?

Do A10s relly use indirect POPUP method ? looks like to me a sitting duck on the APEX point.

Edited July 5, 2012 by sungsam

[Eddie]

I've got one!

 

When doing a pop-up attack with drop munitions, how do you acquire a target in the short amount of time that you have? I guess mark points would be good if one could see the target area before running in. But let's say it's mountaineous terrain and we have no idea what to expect.

 

You should know exactly where your target is before you perform any type of attack, if you don't know what you're getting in to you cannot safely and effectively deliver weapons.

 

If you know what your target is at takeoff it's nice and easy to plan your attack, if you don't then you need to plan a contact point/orbit point near the kill box you've been assigned. Once you reach the CP enter an orbit and search for a target (either using the Mk.1 eyeball, TGP, JTAC or AFAC).

 

Once you have located a target plan your flight from the CP to the target. Locate an IP from which to launch your attack and determine a safe route from the CP to the IP and then on to the target.

 

Finally plan the attack itself. What weapon will you employ and how will you employ it?

 

I'm also curious what an ideal transition would be from terrainmasking (low&slow) to a popup attack. like how many miles before you reach the target do you put the flaps up,disable the speedbrake (if applicable) and with what speed do you initiate the popup?

 

Well first off, if you're terrain masking you shouldn't be slow. Aim for around 300 knots during low level flight (the faster you are the harder you are to hit, and you have more energy to expend defeating threats). The general rule for low level operations in the A-10 is 300/300, that is 300 knots at 300 feet.

 

Run in to the popup at your chosen altitude (anywhere between 100 - 500 ft is the normal range depending on threats). How you run in to target depending on if you are performing a bump up attack (forward firing weapons like AGM-65 or the gun) or a pop-up (free fall munitions). For a bump-up you typically fly directly at the target and then "bump" up to employ weapons. The bump distance depends on the target and the weapon, but the general rule of thumb is 5nm for AGM-65 attacks and 2nm for gun attacks.

 

For a pop up attack, you approach the target with a 45 degree offset (so that without a turn you'd pass the target without overflying it), The pull up point (PUP) is somewhat difficult to determine because IRL it is derived using mission planning tools that we don't have, but the general rule of tumb is add 1nm to the desired slant range at weapon release.

 

At the PUP start a smooth 3G pull and set your climb and to 5 degrees greater than you planned dive angle. So, for example, if you have planned a 10 degree low angle high drag delivery then you pull to 15 degrees at the PUP.

 

 

How much efficiently the pop up attack could be by performing it on a slow mover like A10C ? especialy the indirect popup, as shown above ?

Do A10s relly use indirect POPUP method ? looks like to me a sitting duck on the APEX point.

 

Pop-up and bump-ups are one of most used attack methods for the A-10. The A-10As during the cold war trained to use them in almost every mission as it was a given that it was how they would have to operate against Russian forces in western Europe. Even now with the C model the same low level tactics are practiced heavily.

 

As I said, this is a subject were it's possible to write a very long essay, so it'll be easier for people to answer specific questions than spend all day writing a guide.

 

EDIT:

 

Example of a bump-up attack employing AGM-65s, taken from a tacview recording run at 4x speed for the video. The video starts with the flight running in from the CP to the IP with a in place turn to the left at the IP to start the run to the target and place number 2 in the lead at number 1 in a supporting position.

 

Edited July 5, 2012 by Eddie

[jazjar]

This is exactly what I wanted. Thanks everyone for their questions and thank you Eddie for your answers. Also, when using CBUs, should the method of weapon employment be CCIP or CCRP?

[Eddie]

CCIP and CCRP aren't weapon employment methods, they are just IFFCC submodes. But most delivery types will use CCIP either with or without a CR mode set.

[Evil.Bonsai]

http://youtu.be/l4uaXOLsA-s

 

Maybe it's not the best profile ever flown, but hopefully helpful.

Pop-up attack with 82 10LD2.

 

300kts, at 2.5nM offset 45 degrees, PUP at 2.0nM, smooth climb of 15 degrees, roll in at 1700ft, apex 1900ft, 10 degrees low angle low drag delivery of 2x MK82's, rpl sgl, qty 2x, spacing 50ft.

 

Enjoy.

 

What were those 'features' you were bombing? Looked like bullseyes. I haven't checked the ME lately, but is that a static object you can add?

[Darkwolf187]

Loved the video, got me to man up and try out some popup attacks myself. Every time I try and do a low run on AAA I wind up getting smashed - am I just not jinking and speeding enough?

 

edit: video removed? eh?

Edited May 26, 2013 by Darkwolf187

[Bushmanni]

The reaction delay of the AI AAA gunners is like they know you are coming. The whole idea of the pop-up attack is to surprise the enemy and bomb him before they get organized. The other thing is that pop-up tactics are meant to be used on areas where horizontal visibility is reduced due to hills, buildings or trees as on clear flat ground you can be seen miles away regardless of how low you fly. As AI can see through trees, has super quick reaction times and almost psychic like spotting abilities there's not that many opportunities to use pop-up tactics effectively in DCS against AI. Against human AAA gunners it's a whole different story though.