Prophet_169th Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Results: a complete disaster: every maverick lauched against a coloumn of T-80, Shilka, Tunguska and Strela was intercepted and destroyed by strela , the tail of the coloumn. Sad. What is sad, is that we expect it to be realistic, and then attack a convoy solo. And then wonder why the tactic isnt working well.
AMVI_Surgeon Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Is the missile slider at 100%? All my Strelas seem to miss the mavs or just not fire at them at all ... I don't understand what causes such different behavior - and I think we should find out. Mission version (1.1 or 1.11), and possibly computer specs would be useful, as well as the skill rating fo the SAM in question and thigns like radar enabled SAMs in its vicinity (on the same side) and also missile slider setting. Perhaps we can find some sort of common factor. My missile effectiveness is at 50%. It was a multiplayer mission made with 1.1, and in that coloumn were 1 strela, 1 shilka, 1 tunguska, and 5 T-80, all average AI (not so really expert I hope!!!)...... Freelance Hog Pilot :joystick:
Prophet_169th Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Is the missile slider at 100%? All my Strelas seem to miss the mavs or just not fire at them at all ... I don't understand what causes such different behavior - and I think we should find out. Mission version (1.1 or 1.11), and possibly computer specs would be useful, as well as the skill rating fo the SAM in question and thigns like radar enabled SAMs in its vicinity (on the same side) and also missile slider setting. Perhaps we can find some sort of common factor. Tracks would also help.
355th_Paulie Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 What is sad, is that we expect it to be realistic, and then attack a convoy solo. And then wonder why the tactic isnt working well. Exactly, that's what I was trying to say.... :D
S77th-konkussion Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 What is sad, is that we expect it to be realistic, and then attack a convoy solo. And then wonder why the tactic isnt working well. My comment is directed specifically at what the unit can & cannot do. Tactics are beside the point. I have no doubt that a single A10 would not go out looking for a convoy that was heavily armed w/ AAA assets. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 My missile effectiveness is at 50%. It was a multiplayer mission made with 1.1, and in that coloumn were 1 strela, 1 shilka, 1 tunguska, and 5 T-80, all average AI (not so really expert I hope!!!)...... Ok, cool. Could you try making a similar column in the ME and attacking it and see what the results are please? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
SwingKid Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Double-tap the strela, or launch your missiles in quick succession. That would be a lot easier and more realistic if ED had ever listened to D-Scythe, and bothered to model "Quick Draw:" http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=7943&page=6 http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomb7.html Instead, I see my Mavs being deselected altogether when switching from one TER to the other. :confused: -SK
Yellonet Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Alright, just set up a A-10 vs Strela mission and let the AI fire a Mav a few times, then I fired on the Strela a few times, not once did the Strela fire at the Mav. And I can confirm the bug that Evil-Scotsman was talking about, if you target something that is not an object, like the ground just to the side of a target, the Mav will ignore the lock and just fly away... i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
GGTharos Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 That's why you're supposed to wait for the flashing cross on the TV. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
SwingKid Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 And I can confirm the bug that Evil-Scotsman was talking about, if you target something that is not an object, like the ground just to the side of a target, the Mav will ignore the lock and just fly away... Ah ok, GG's right, this at least has a reasonable explanation and is not a bug. You don't really "lock" the Maverick onto the ground, rather, you just gyro-stabilize its seeker, to make it easier to aim. Once the missile is launched, that gyro-stabilization is gone. You need an optical lock on a visible-contrast target to shoot, indicated by the flashing corss in the TV display. A gyro-stabilization can suddenly turn into an optical lock with no action from the pilot, simply by approaching a target in the display. -SK
tflash Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 That's why you're supposed to wait for the flashing cross on the TV. Fact remains that the so-called AGM-65K Maverick is way below spec. If it would perform like in Lockon, Raytheon would never have been able to sell this "upgrade". I guess realistic lock should be between 5-7 miles. raytheon sure claims it's higher. In Lockon it's 3 miles. You can lock from further, but then the missile goes bananas. In fact, I already said in another thread that they should have modelled the G and G2 models. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Yellonet Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Ah ok, GG's right, this at least has a reasonable explanation and is not a bug. You don't really "lock" the Maverick onto the ground, rather, you just gyro-stabilize its seeker, to make it easier to aim. Once the missile is launched, that gyro-stabilization is gone. You need an optical lock on a visible-contrast target to shoot, indicated by the flashing corss in the TV display. A gyro-stabilization can suddenly turn into an optical lock with no action from the pilot, simply by approaching a target in the display. -SK Ah, thanks for the explanation :) i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
GGTharos Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 I'm sure there's an interesting discussion somewhere around here which can show that the mav really -is- fired at such 'short' ranges (how fast can you cross 6km running?) distances. Furthermore, it is to increase lock/target acquisition range that the new MITM and LOAL features have been included in the latest models. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
SwingKid Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 As a Sergeant First Class Avenger platoon sergeant for the past ten years, I can shed a little light on this subject... There is no way in hell that an Avneger can engage a Maverick in any tactical situation. Read more: http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=95013 -SK
Yellonet Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 So what is this thread about now? It seems to change all the time :/ i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
tflash Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 I'm sure there's an interesting discussion somewhere around here which can show that the mav really -is- fired at such 'short' ranges (how fast can you cross 6km running?) distances. Furthermore, it is to increase lock/target acquisition range that the new MITM and LOAL features have been included in the latest models. The G-model already had improved range over the D (even though it has heavier warhead). The K IS the latest model, so I dont understand your point? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Yes, and what was the launch range for a D? :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Yellonet Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Here's some data on the K, but how reliable is it? http://www.deagel.com/pandora/index.aspx?p=mn00002007 Max range 24 km, for those who don't want to click the link. Another thing, the K is modeled with a weight of 210 kg (A and H models weigh 208 kg) in the game but numerous sources says it weighs 360 kg. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
Trident Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Quickdraw sounds very interesting, should be a very handy feature indeed! BTW, could the presence of an enemy AWACS be another factor in the widely differing results that people are obtaining with this new feature? It probably shouldn't, given the small RCS of a Maverick or typical ARM, but I seem to recall that AWACS used to make the difference when you wanted to have S300s engage cruise missiles in older versions of Flanker. Maybe this somehow got carried over inspite of the smaller missiles?
D-Scythe Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 That would be a lot easier and more realistic if ED had ever listened to D-Scythe, and bothered to model "Quick Draw:" http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=7943&page=6 http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomb7.html Instead, I see my Mavs being deselected altogether when switching from one TER to the other. :confused: -SK Yeah! :D Yes, and what was the launch range for a D? That depends on a lot of factors. I'm willing to bet that on an average day (i.e. average conditions), if the pilot knew *exactly* where a tank was, he could probably launch a D-Mav from 5-6 miles. Actually finding the target and ID'ing it would cut into range a lot (especially in a fast-mover like a Viper), so I'd expect range to be around 3 miles or so, but that is irrelevent to the discussion as the issue is how far an AGM-65D *can* lock into a target. I don't think the EO seeker on the -K currently in LOMAC offers any kind of magnification, does it? I know it does for the -D.
GGTharos Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 It could be a factor when the SAM is told where to look for you. It does appear that a longest ranging sensor in the group will be used to gather information for that group, which may explain the whole shebang. Normally stinger/strela/iglas don't engage my missiles, or they miss them becuase they fire too late. However when a radar vehicle is in the group, this may change. I'll check it out later. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Yellonet Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Yeah! :D That depends on a lot of factors. I'm willing to bet that on an average day (i.e. average conditions), if the pilot knew *exactly* where a tank was, he could probably launch a D-Mav from 5-6 miles. Actually finding the target and ID'ing it would cut into range a lot (especially in a fast-mover like a Viper), so I'd expect range to be around 3 miles or so, but that is irrelevent to the discussion as the issue is how far an AGM-65D *can* lock into a target. I don't think the EO seeker on the -K currently in LOMAC offers any kind of magnification, does it? I know it does for the -D. No it doesn't, strangely enough, as it is the latest Mav model... as the missile can obviously go 24 km = 15 miles it seems stupid to limit the range too much because of the choice of seeker head. But who knows, maybe "they" based the choice of seeker head on some statistics, something like that most targets are engaged at under 3-4 miles (?) which makes it economically unjustified to put on a more expensive seeker head for engagment over the (statistically) normal range. Perhaps. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
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