Next DCS (Russian) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List

[SmokeyTheLung]

I suspect a nerf most likely with all the current whinging over the supposed godlike AIM-120.

 

Fortunately (I hope), whining from one person to the tune of "My favorite plane/missile combo is out classed by another plane/missile, please change the game for the sake of balance" should probably be ignored.

 

Not really sure why I'm getting involved in this argument... It's pretty ridiculous. @Teknetinium, come over to the dark side, start flying the 15 exclusively :D

[Steph]

This was before my time, but my understanding is that the R-27's already are "boosted" compared to the documentation. ED has a lot of documentation for a lot of things, but obviously they may or may not be able to share this with us.

 

Regarding the AIM-120 warhead, it's "overpowered" in order to simulate the directional warhead, something the engine (at least in FC2) could not support. I'm not the missile expert though and I don't know if this is different in FC3.

 

Regarding the actual topic of this thread: if anyone has good documentation for more modern migs and flankers, go ahead - perhaps even start a development team and see if you can get licensed to make it. As mentioned previously in this thread, disseminating modern military information to the outside world is something that is a bit dodgy in Russia given that there's so much that is secret or the equivalent of NOFORN; information everyone can get about american planes can still be pretty secret for the russian birds, which is a problem.

 

Hi ,

 

Information/ DATA SU27 :

 

http://prideaircraft.com/flanker.htm

 

DATA : http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/su27.htm

 

But, i think , it is not enough :)

[Teknetinium]

Fortunately (I hope), whining from one person to the tune of "My favorite plane/missile combo is out classed by another plane/missile, please change the game for the sake of balance" should probably be ignored.

 

Not really sure why I'm getting involved in this argument... It's pretty ridiculous. @Teknetinium, come over to the dark side, start flying the 15 exclusively :D

 

 

You are just ignorant when you believe that Im talking about balance.

I remember how F-15 fanboy were crying over ETs seeker in override mode, I dont need any data because it is a fact that aim-120 seeker is as good as F-15s radar in FC3 :)

THAT IS NOT REALISTIC!!!

 

And trust me Im not the only one who feel this way :)

 

About the dark side or the bright side, U dont have any side soon because everyone will fly DCS fighter and if the missiles will be shit for one side you will get same outcome, All because of ur assumptions that are bias.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Teknetinium

[159th_Viper]

I dont need any data because it is a fact that aim-120 seeker is as good as F-15s radar in FC3 :)

 

Proof?

[Teknetinium]

Proof?

 

Proof that it is not. ETs were fixed but aim-120 are still magic. Just lunch in bandits direction and missile will always track, (spamming is still very effective).

Edited December 24, 2012 by Teknetinium

[159th_Viper]

but aim-120 are still magic. :)

 

How so?

 

Facts please, something that I can work with - no moans. Cannot report a moan.

 

You say launch. Launch when? Track with explanation?

[Teknetinium]

How so?

 

Facts please, something that I can work with - no moans. Cannot report a moan.

 

You say launch. Launch when? Track with explanation?

 

The fact is that ER and AIM-120 lunched at same attitude where both bandits do pincer while guiding their missile, there is a bigger chance that Aim-120 will hit target. It might be realistic but you are destroying this simulator since the aim-120 have already the advantage of being active. Now when F-15 pilot knows that his missiles hit better in a pincer as well it becomes pointless. You can argue that it is more realistic if you don't take in to account RL factors as respect for opponents missiles, How do we reach that? I don't know and I don't get paid for it, Im not talking about balance. Ers should have longer legs then aim-120 that is proven everywhere I look.

 

Im trying to point out some things that are not making this simulator better, ED mentioned themselves that aim-120 was over modeled at the moment when it comes to explosives. So I have all right to whine when I see aim-120 do things that are way to good, witch dose more harm then good for this simulator.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Teknetinium

[Cali]

ET's where fixed cause 20 mile shots without locking a target.

 

@viper, someone did a test on ER and 120's and the ER fall short, GG saw the thread.

[danilop]

I think I'll pass on FC in this, third incarnation. I've been spoiled by KA-50 and A-10c.

:P

 

FC3 is just a tweaked FC2 (according to beta testers flight model is the same) and it is filling the time gap before we get fighters modeled to DCS standard.

 

In the meantime, MiG21bis is the most promising add-on. :pilotfly:

[159th_Viper]

The fact is that ER and AIM-120 lunched at same attitude where both bandits do pincer while guiding their missile, there is a bigger chance that Aim-120 will hit target. It might be realistic but you are destroying this simulator since the aim-120 have already the advantage of being active. Now when F-15 pilot knows that his missiles hit better in a pincer as well it becomes pointless. You can argue that it is more realistic if you don't take in to account RL factors as respect for opponents missiles, How do we reach that? I don't know and I don't get paid for it, Im not talking about balance. Ers should have longer legs then aim-120 that is proven everywhere I look.

 

Im trying to point out that some things are not right for this simulator, ED mentioned themselves that aim-120 was over modeled at the moment when it comes to explosives. So I have all right to whine when I see aim-120 do things that are way to good, witch dose more harm then good for this simulator.

 

Good Lord Man I want to help but you do yourself no favours.

 

How about you break it down to bite-size chunks as opposed to rants and moans. If you feel that a particualr missile has one or more problems then list each and every problem individually, with a track where possible, and I'll be able to tell you whether the matter is been seen to, or report if necessary, or explain.

 

Again, quit moaning! Forget about gameplay and balance. Life's not fair - it is what it is. Quit moaning if you get a hiding - Get over it and get clever.

 

 

Now, back to the missiles. How about a list of faults for each individual missile?

 

I get the 'ER has short legs' argument - I'll look into that asap. Any more?

[Cedaway]

AIM-120 seeker, F-15 FM, R-27,... Is there a :popcorn: smiley or something similar?

 

No but really, the original question was:

- Do you want to see the Flanker model updated, 6DOF pit,... ?

 

We all know that the Flanker model is to be updated and we too all know that there will not be 6DOF pit (at least not this year -EDIT: 2013- considering the time needed to).

[Teknetinium]

I think I'll pass on FC in this, third incarnation. I've been spoiled by KA-50 and A-10c.

:P

 

FC3 is just a tweaked FC2 (according to beta testers flight model is the same) and it is filling the time gap before we get fighters modeled to DCS standard.

 

In the meantime, MiG21bis is the most promising add-on. :pilotfly:

 

Same here I only enjoy A-10 and Ka-50. FC3 beta is bias for one part of community.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Teknetinium
Rule 1.10

[159th_Viper]

Tek - have a bit of respect and quit swearing. If you cannot, quit posting. Last warning.

 

Post above edited.

[Teknetinium]

Tek - have a bit of respect and quit swearing. If you cannot, quit posting. Last warning.

 

Post above edited.

 

 

Im using same language as GG did toward me.

[Teknetinium]

That was a nice big pile of BS. :)

[159th_Viper]

Im using same language as GG did toward me.

 

Quit acting like a spoilt brat. If you have an issue with a post, report it. That is what the report function is there for.

 

Now, I am still waiting on your list of faults for the respective missiles. How about you work on that and get it to me so I can have a look at it.

[SmokeyTheLung]

It might be realistic but you are destroying this simulator since the aim-120 have already the advantage of being active

 

How does this = not about balance?

 

You suggest that I'm biased (I most certainly am) but more importantly I'm trusting that ED is working to make a realistic simulator with the data available... Why don't you provide the data that you seem to be sitting on? Telling people on these boards that you don't need to back up your statements with proof because "they are true" is pretty silly/circular way to go about it.

 

Also, can you give me some tips as to how to get my aim120s to "always" hit targets (without prior radar lock)? Because my experience has been quite different than yours.

[Teknetinium]

Quit acting like a spoilt brat. If you have an issue with a post, report it. That is what the report function is there for.

 

Now, I am still waiting on your list of faults for the respective missiles. How about you work on that and get it to me so I can have a look at it.

 

:) If you try to understand what Im talking about in my previous post it should be pritty obvious. I can not tell you more then I have, I have been listing my opinions several times, still you try to point me on data that doesn't exist.

 

Ill stop posting my opinions so you can live in your dream world where aim-120 is faster has better explosives and tracks better at all attitudes and obviously turns better whit longer legs as well then ERs.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Teknetinium

[159th_Viper]

I'll stop posting my opinions so you can live in your dream world.

 

No you will not. You started this so at least have the cojones to finish it.

 

:) If you try to understand what Im talking about in my previous post it should be pritty obvious. I can not tell you more then I have, I have been listing my opinions several times, still you try to point me on data that doesn't exist.

 

It's simple - I want a list of perceived faults. I am not trying to trick you or do this or do that.

 

I am the first to admit that you in all probability know more about missiles than I do. I do however know that I want them to function as close as possible to their RL counterparts.

 

If they do not, I want to know why not in order to rectify. Your word games are not helping me. I'll repeat: I need a list!

 

What I have got from your posts above is 1 issue, namely

 

1 - ER has short legs.

 

I'll investigate this and let you know.

 

Now, I need the others from you. Kindly list and post. Forget about the tracks - I see now that that will never happen. I will be more than happy with just the list.

 

Please.

[Teknetinium]

No you will not. You started this so at least have the cojones to finish it.

 

 

 

It's simple - I want a list of perceived faults. I am not trying to trick you or do this or do that.

 

I am the first to admit that you in all probability know more about missiles than I do. I do however know that I want them to function as close as possible to their RL counterparts.

 

If they do not, I want to know why not in order to rectify. Your word games are not helping me. I'll repeat: I need a list!

 

What I have got from your posts above is 1 issue, namely

 

1 - ER has short legs.

 

I'll investigate this and let you know.

 

Now, I need the others from you. Kindly list and post. Forget about the tracks - I see now that that will never happen. I will be more than happy with just the list.

 

Please.

 

You need to find a sweet spot where both sides are afraid of opponents missiles at the moment it is overmodeled on aim-120s part.

It is about testing and tweaking, the advantage of aim-120 is already there because its active.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Teknetinium

[159th_Viper]

.....it is overmodeld on aim-120s part.

 

Word games again.

 

Not good enough.

 

I need to know why the AIM-120 is overmodelled.

 

List the faults.

[Teknetinium]

Word games again.

 

Not good enough.

 

I need to know why the AIM-120 is overmodeled.

 

List the faults.

 

1.There is no prove that aim-120 tracks so good against low flying bandits, it has much weaker radar then F-15.

 

2. there is no prove on how good it preforms against Russian countermeasures.

 

3. ERs should have longer legs.

 

4. There is no prove on that ER should hit wors then aim-120 if bandit in pincer. (only assumptions witch might be correct but conter productive for the sim)

 

5. INS for ERs should make them deadlier.

 

6. TWS for R-77 and time to impact on HUD.

 

7. All this factors can be used to find the sweetspot.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Teknetinium

[GGTharos]

1. Yes there is. It is not as good as it should be.

 

2. There is no proof of anything regarding ecm. Generally newer systems defeat older ones, so you were still not doing so well.

 

3. Missiles are still being tweaked.

 

4. Yes there is. R-27 pk < AIM-120 PK, end of story.

 

5. And it will make 120s much deadlier too.

 

6. The Sim is balanced enough. Want real balance? Everyone in same plane, same armament. You chose your ride, it happens to be disadvantaged in some ways, deal with it.

 

 

1.There is no prove that is tracks so good against low flying bandits, it has much weaker radar then F-15.

 

2. there is no prove on how good it preforms against Russian countermeasures.

 

3. ERs should have longer legs.

 

4. There is no prove on that ER should hit wors then aim-120 if bandit in pincer. (only assumptions witch might be correct but conter productive for the sim)

 

5. INS for ERs should make them deadlier.

 

6. All this factors can be used to find the sweetspot.

Edited December 24, 2012 by GGTharos

[EtherealN]

Tek, seriously - if all you have is to claim that there is "no proof" for X or Y, then that's really nothiing. You cannot turn personal ignorance into an argument for anything.

 

If you think something is wrong, show how it is wrong. Got a document that describes AIM-120 (which versions btw?) performance against low-flying targets? No? Then how can you say it's wrong?

 

ED doesn't change anything based on your personal incredulity. ED changes things based on available documentation.

[159th_Viper]

1.There is no prove that is tracks so good against low flying bandits, it has much weaker radar then F-15.

 

In other words it tracks too well in the terminal phase? Is that what you are trying to say?

 

You alledge - YOU need to prove. Kindly do so or provide corroboration.

 

2. there is no prove on how good it preforms against Russian countermeasures.

 

What are you trying to say? That the AIM-120 is immune to chaff?

 

3. ERs should have longer legs.

 

I'll have a look.

 

4. There is no prove on that ER should hit wors then aim-120 if bandit in pincer. (only assumptions witch might be correct but conter productive for the sim)

 

What on earth has tactics/pilot skill have to do with missile dynamic? The missile has no idea of pincers/bandit in pincer. Keep this discussion related to missiles and their attendant faults - as I said, no word games. Keep it simple.

 

5. INS for ERs should make them deadlier.

 

I'm sure you know that INS is already on the bug list - why mention it again when it has already been acknowledged?

 

6. All this factors can be used to find the sweetspot.

 

Where's the fault/shortcoming of the missile in #6?

 

You seem to be suffering from the delusion that missiles should not be tweaked to accord with their RL specifications. No, they should rather be tweaked to afford all missiles with some type of sweetspot to ensure mutually satisfactory gameplay for both Blue and Red.

 

True?

 

You forget the gross shortcoming of this argument. What standard do you employ to find the 'sweetspot'? The entry-level noob or the 'Frostie/Pilotasso of the LockOn World?

 

Noob to Elite Virtual Pilot? On what do you measure the sweetspot? The very fact that one id forced to ask that question means that argument is doomed from the outset - forget about it and concentrate on the missiles. They are what is needed to be modelled correctly - sweetspots are irrelevant in War.