Next DCS (Russian) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List

[Kuky]

Kitchen sink hurts more too

[X-man]

Related to resolved Item #83.

Nope, that's a bug... I'm speaking if the fact that aircraft that are hit very, very, very often retains all systems minus HUD and engines (often only engines). This leads to burning aircraft flying in circles and spamming missiles all over the place, often killing stuff in the process. IMO, an aircraft that has lost power and is burning should not be able to "fight". This was introduced in FC2 and hence not a bug limited to FC3...

 

But this is the wrong thread for this, so I apologise...

[159th_Viper]

Nope, that's a bug... I'm speaking if the fact that aircraft that are hit very, very, very often retains all systems minus HUD and engines (often only engines). This leads to burning aircraft flying in circles and spamming missiles all over the place, often killing stuff in the process. IMO, an aircraft that has lost power and is burning should not be able to "fight". This was introduced in FC2 and hence not a bug limited to FC3...

 

But this is the wrong thread for this, so I apologise...

 

What I meant was that the two were related of sorts. When 83 was fixed it took care of the behaviour you are referring too as well.

[X-man]

What I meant was that the two were related of sorts. When 83 was fixed it took care of the behaviour you are referring too as well.

 

Ok, got it. Hope you're right :P

[159th_Viper]

Hope you're right :P

 

Me too :D

 

Tests seem to indicate that it has indeed been rectified. That said, please let me know if you encounter it again and I'll be sure to reopen/submit relevant reports.

[GGTharos]

If you bring Kopp as a source for modeling things in-sim, you'll be ignored. That's how good his references are. To further make the point, he has no access to secret information, sometimes displays a lack of understanding of certain systems, and is generally heavily biased in his reporting. I'd rather listen to the pilots that fly the machines than Kopp.

 

it´s very simple... this are his references:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Kopp

 

what are your´s dude ? ;)

[Kuky]

Me too :D

 

Tests seem to indicate that it has indeed been rectified. That said, please let me know if you encounter it again and I'll be sure to reopen/submit relevant reports.

 

Actually Viper, in sim I don't think the FCS is disabled when aircraft is damaged, you can still Launch Override and spam IR missiles (this is test builds also). As I think this is the bug Tek is talking about maybe submit another report specific for this? Do we want when someone is hit and looses the engines and HUD to not be able to fire any missiles at all?

[GGTharos]

No, we don't - it should be more random. A bandit that is hit but still flying should never be discounted as a threat - it isn't in RL. That same pilot is about as likely to be thinking about supporting his buddy as he is about getting out. You don't stop fighting if you can fight.

 

For the moment though the SFM isn't complex enough to make your FCS a separate system that is subject to disabling. I suggest to make it random because then you don't need to model electrics.

[Sov13t]

Do we want when someone is hit and looses the engines and HUD to not be able to fire any missiles at all?

 

YES! All that person needs to be thinking about is ejecting.

 

No, we don't - it should be more random. A bandit that is hit but still flying should never be discounted as a threat - it isn't in RL.

 

In RL you are risking your life, and the last thing you will be thinking about is trying to 360 degree spam your missiles while in a flat spin with both engines on fire. And since you are not able to simulate the damage model precisely... the answer should be YES.

 

More on this... a bandit that is hit is never discounted in game either... yet when it takes 4-5 missiles to take him out, all you are doing is saying awfully nice words about how awesome the damage model is in this "simulator".

Edited December 27, 2012 by Sov13t

[Frostie]

I can't think of a more immediate threat than having your ass on fire.

 

I just can't imagine the RL pilot rather than thinking 'holy cow i'm on fire in an aircraft full of jet fuel' choosing to focus on 'maybe if I can just let loose all my AMRAAM's with magic seekers they'll easily find those bastages that worked so hard to kill me'.

[Cali]

Pilots have checklists that they go by in emergencies or when systems fail. I'm sure if they are in a flat spin they aren't thinking about spamming missiles in every direction, as they could hit a wingman. Just cause our engines are on fire that doesn't mean you can't fire your missiles. Best thing to do is get yourself into a position to not get hit. Although that won't work everytime, making it random like GG said is the best solution.

 

EDIT: Frostie, pilots stay in the aircraft as long as they can. It's not just 15 pilots that do that, guys flying Russian birds do the same thing. And in FC1/2 they used magic heaters.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Cali

[danilop]

YES! All that person needs to be thinking about is ejecting.

 

 

 

In RL you are risking your life, and the last thing you will be thinking about is trying to 360 degree spam your missiles while in a flat spin with both engines on fire. And since you are not able to simulate the damage model precisely... the answer should be YES.

 

More on this... a bandit that is hit is never discounted in game either... yet when it takes 4-5 missiles to take him out, all you are doing is saying awfully nice words about how awesome the damage model is in this "simulator".

 

+1

 

It seems that authorities around this board forget something. This is a GAME (flame suit on :)), you don't die, loose your arm/leg/whatever as a consequence of choices made during "simulation". How many armchair pilots would continue fighting if they knew that they will going to loose life/leg if they do so?

 

So please, references to RL have to end somewhere. :music_whistling:

 

A bandit that is hit but still flying should never be discounted as a threat - it isn't in RL. That same pilot is about as likely to be thinking about supporting his buddy as he is about getting out. You don't stop fighting if you can fight.

Edited December 27, 2012 by danilop

[Frostie]

Engines on fire equals FCS system down, surely.

[sobek]

Engines on fire equals FCS system down, surely.

 

Not necessarily. Think EPU in the F-16.

[GGTharos]

I talk to real pilots. And their answers are almost always 'it depends'. The references to RL won't end :)

 

So please, references to RL have to end somewhere. :music_whistling:

Edited December 27, 2012 by GGTharos

[GGTharos]

Is your FCS too good for the battery? :D

I recall at least one documented F-16 downing where the FCS was running for a good while after the hit. The engine was on fire, too - but operating, so it would seem like the engine generator would operate at that time, true. What you do in battle depends on the battle. You might stick around to give SA if your plane is controllable, and if your weapons will still fire you might fire them. You might elect to bug out instead so you don't eject over the wrong part of the map. Or your plane may be hit so bad you'll get out right away. Like well trained pilots like to say: It depends.

 

It's like that in FC3 as well. While some hits may leave you operable, a lot of them will have you going out of control.

 

Engines on fire equals FCS system down, surely.

Edited December 27, 2012 by GGTharos

[Groove]

I suggest everybody in here takes a deep breath and relax a little bit.

[Teknetinium]

Not necessarily. Think EPU in the F-16.

 

Weapon systems are not the first thing to check whit help of battery when hit by 4 missiles and burning :)

Edited December 27, 2012 by Teknetinium

[Sov13t]

Not necessarily. Think EPU in the F-16.

 

Yeap, where E stands for Emergency.

 

Engine fire = EJECT!

 

There is your checklist.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Sov13t

[Kaktus29]

i agree, when engines are on fire usually it means your power generation is OFF, meaning FCS is invalid, you can't do shit.. all you can do is eject-if you are lucky that is..

 

in RL when a jet gets hit pilots don't think about doing damage control as some said-that is when plane is hit and is on FIRE! and spinning) but they eject ASAP..

 

i remember the confession of that F-16 pilot who ejected during the 1995 agression over R. Srpska and got hit by a SAM.. i didn't see in his confession thinking "okei, let me just turn around and fire one of those HARM missiles to get that SAM who is targeting me))lol.. you just eject, simple as that..

 

actually in the very first flanker they simulated really nicely..if you got hit by a missile you automatically saw your dude eject ..

 

it's more realistic than the spinning kamikazo spewing fire and raining death even though in his death spiral )) lol..

 

 

But about RL and simulation, of course we are very far away.. as some have mentioned, you have integrated AD systems, GAI's, cruise missiles fired in volley to knock off the airfields so in effect grounding even the most amazing F-22's .. so in real war if it ever happened we actually don't know what would happen, all that has happened so far were controlled massacres ..not really wars.. i mean US vs. Iraq? or Libya?..seriously?)) that passes for war today? .. c'mon.. get serious.

 

As Danilop said..in RL nukes would start flying very soon, .. that is the reason why NATO chickened out in Georgia.. Russia was pushed against the wall, and if USN would intervene Russia couldn't back off, would have to use nukes-tactical to knock off the USN, after a loss of a US aircraft carrier and a public relations disaster of explaining to american voters how russians sank an aircraft carrier and killed over 5000 sailors there would be a "retaliation" with tomahawks-nuke armed and would hit Russian military bases, then russia retaliates and hits US bases in Romania, Germany, UK, ..then US ,..etc etc.. get it? ..it get out of control very fast.. all this talk about some stupid radar and missile of AMRAAM and ER is childish.. it matters nothing in RL..

 

in RL things would escalate and before you could say "phuck" you would be on your way to meet your maker )) lol..

[danilop]

I talk to real pilots. And their answers are almost always 'it depends'.

 

I don't doubt that, but then how many of your faithful customers are pilots? And how many would be prepared to act as a trained professional pilot in circumstances requiring ultimate sacrifice like ignoring direct missile hit, staying in cockpit firing missiles at opponent?

 

We cannot electrocute players dead (unfortunately :lol:) for deciding to sacrifice they virtual life and not ejecting - so there has to be some sort of mechanism to prevent "virtual sacrifice".

[Sov13t]

It's like that in FC3 as well. While some hits may leave you operable, a lot of them will have you going out of control.

 

Sure, that is fine. However, when network play is introduced in the equation you will find that this happens a lot more often than in a controlled environment that you conduct your tests in. You have your latency issues piled with weird fuze and warhead calculations and you get your F-15 is a tank threads popping up, surely 40kg warhead is just a fire cracker.

[GGTharos]

Your argument is pointless.

 

I don't doubt that, but then how many of your faithful customers are pilots? And how many would be prepared to act as a trained professional pilot in circumstances requiring ultimate sacrifice like ignoring direct missile hit, staying in cockpit firing missiles at opponent?

 

We cannot electrocute players dead (unfortunately :lol:) for deciding to sacrifice they virtual life and not ejecting - so there has to be some sort of mechanism to prevent "virtual sacrifice".

[GGTharos]

Don't worry, I've seen flankers being tanks as well. 5 120's and 2 9's, all hits, and the guy was still flying. I don't care about those - those are things that cannot be controlled or fixed, so why stress over them.

 

On the other hand, what HAS been fixed, is missile seekers being fixed straight ahead when they come off the rail without lock, as of FC2. That means your spinning, heater/active spewing doomed bandit will only hit you if you're at the wrong place at the right time, which you can actively work to prevent.

 

Sure, that is fine. However, when network play is introduced in the equation you will find that this happens a lot more often than in a controlled environment that you conduct your tests in. You have your latency issues piled with weird fuze and warhead calculations and you get your F-15 is a tank threads popping up, surely 40kg warhead is just a fire cracker.

[Kuky]

I am also for completely disabling FCS in case of hit (where HUD is out)... I'm going to make a poll... then possibly create a report for ED