Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar

[BuzzU]

Hey...I'm definitely no fanboi of anything. It seems I just walked right into an inside joke between you and Rugg. It went over my head...I've got no problem recognizing that. :D

 

I must say though, I'm pretty impressed with my cheaper stuff (including my CH setup) and how it holds up well in harsh conditions. The CH is AWESOME...I just had to stay away from sims for a couple of weeks to forget my X45 movements. :icon_jook

 

I was promoting the CH stuff long before it became popular. I have no clue what they use for pots, but they seem to have endless life.

 

I just had to try another Cougar since getting involved with F4AF. It's a sweet stick with all the mods, and anybody who's really into F4 should have an FSSB Cougar. My problem is I shattered my right wrist two years ago and I thought it was all healed. The FSSB showed me it wasn't. My wrist can't handle the tension on the FSSB. I screwed up by not getting the Evenstrain when it was available to me. Anyway, that's why the FSSB is up for sale.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Sorry to hear about your shattered wrist dude, I know that can affect your whole life, as well as your use of flight sim sticks. Actually, on that same note, I have noticed that the CH stick is easier to use than my X45 considering my own injury from months ago. I completely dislocated my pinkie from the rest of my hand one night while...again:icon_roll ...interacting with my large lizards. Its been about a year so far, and I'm finally getting ALMOST full mobility with my right hand (I'm right-handed too...its been a b***h). The CH seems to be very friendly to that, since the stick buttons are so closely grouped and I don't have to contort and "make a claw" as much. :D

[Guest ruggbutt]

I screwed up by not getting the Evenstrain when it was available to me. Anyway, that's why the FSSB is up for sale.

I tried to talk you out of it, but I didn't have enuf stick time w/both of them to shame you into the Evenstrain.

 

And for the record, the only type of fanboi that Buzz is, is a rugg fanboi. ;)

[leafer]

TM's still manufactures COUGAR? I thought they stopped making them.

 

How much are you selling yours,BuzzU and what's FSSB cougar?

[Yellonet]

TM's still manufactures COUGAR? I thought they stopped making them.

 

How much are you selling yours,BuzzU and what's FSSB cougar?

FSSB is a mod that make the stick non-movable, like a real F-16 stick, it translates the power applied to it into movement of the ailerons and elevators.

[Pilotasso]

Actualy the original F-16 stick has been modifyed to to allow a small deflection due to pilots complaints.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup. There's about a quarter inch of movement in the F-16 stick. I'm not sure what Block that was implemented at though.

[Yellonet]

Actualy the original F-16 stick has been modifyed to to allow a small deflection due to pilots complaints.

There goes the FSSB :icon_lol:

[Burner_Tbird2]

Actually its only thru simple bent washers that the FCC becomes moveable, I'd imagine with the same washers you could get the same effect with the FSSB as they mount to the cougar base is a similar fashion.

[LawnDart]

Actualy the original F-16 stick has been modifyed to to allow a small deflection due to pilots complaints.

 

Initially when the Viper was developed it had no movement. Now, it moves just enough to give you some physical feedback which way the stick is deflected to, but not relating to any control inputs being transmitted to the flight control system. Having recently felt how much it moves, I can say that it barely moves at all (still)...

[BuzzU]

I found the FSSB very easy to fly. I was used to it in a couple of minutes. It worked great in F4 of course, but was also good in Lock On on all planes. Even the Su-2T felt very natural to fly with the FSSB. If my wrist wasn't screwed up i'd never get rid of it..

[leafer]

Ahh...that sounds real expensive and way out of my range. Anyway, I prefer the old deflection style.

[Doppler]

Actually, you can get the Cougar from Alternate.de at 179€. Is not cheap, but at this moment I don't think you cannot get better quality/cost investment for a Hotas.

[Kevlon]

i would never get different stick

 

i love my baby :)

[Manny]

Well, they are solid metal and feel great, heavy, loads of switches etc ... BUT ... some of the internal components are poor quality. My brake switch is dead and I've replaced pots in mine ... but some change just about all the internals - very expensive but apparently smoother and more reliable. Yes, they are expensive ... but I love mine!

 

I can attest to this when I owned the Thrustmaster F-22 Pro but then again, I am certain the same potentiometers are found in other HOTAS producst as well. I am certain it depends upon if the manufacturer protects them from foreign object debri or not. Saitek has done a good job with that. Thrustmaster has not but the Cougar appears to be better constructed.

 

I recall replacing poorly soldered wires and a potentiometer or two not because of failure but because of the material Thrustmaster applied to them that served as a vacuum to FOD. The first recommendation after purchase was to open the HOTAS and clean the pots entirely. Now this was no easy feat since it involved disassembly of the entire POT.

 

I am a bit hesitant because of my experience with the F-22 and I do not want to go through that again. Apparently, some of you are still going through those problems.... rather disappointing. As for the springs, Thrustmaster still hasn't gotten em right so you end up with Pop-Eye forearms and a good workout after play.... hmmm disappointing.

 

Out of the box mods should not be necessary but the metal construction and other bonuses seem to outweigh the trouble.

[Yellonet]

If you can afford it...

[Manny]

Well, due to the Cougars gimball design (the combo of metal, springs, pots and stuff that make up the internal of the Coug and make it move/work) uses a rather strange setup of springs. On the Frugals Cougar forum are a few pics of this type of springs but i couldn't find them right away. They are 2-way springs so one spring can be used in 2 directions. You can call it springs with a deadzone. One spring is used for the X-axis and the other for the Y-axis.

When you move the stick left (-X), you put presure on the left side of the X-axis spring and not on the right side. So far so good, but when you move the stick to the right now (+X) you feel the presure of the spring go to zero again (from -X to the center point) and building it up again but now on the other side, the +X side of the spring. You can clearly "feel" that transition when going through the center of the X-axis, in this case from -X over center point to + X. It feels like a little bump.

You have the same on the Y-axis (vertical movement).

Now imagine that you push the stick forward left. In that case you build up presure on the -X X-axis spring and +Y on the Y-axis spring. You have to use double the force to push the stick in a combined XY direction then you have to in a single axis direction. And everytime you move the stick over one of both axis, you feel that bump. This means that moving the stick around means that you have to apply various variations in force + extra force to overcome the deadzone etc...

All in all, i found this horrible and quickly made it a 4-spring stick based on Scamps idea (still in the Mods & Tweaks condensed topic over at Frugals but the pics have gone, link: see above)+ a little extra to remove the centerplay "every" stock Cougar has.

I can't explain it better in english.

A 4-spring stick does not have the problems mentioned above (keep in mind that most cheap stick only use 1 center spring).

IJ then came up with a moddification called the U2 (now improved to the U2 Next) which gave the Cougar totaly new internals, 4-springs and Hall sensors instead of pots. It's amazing how precise the stick has become with that mod in place and i know not a single Cougar owner who upgraded to a U2 (or an Evenstrain) who reverted back to his old setup....none!!!

Drawback is that you have to add another 300$ to get the mod + sensors at your frontdoor.

 

Therefore: If you can't afford the mod, try the stock Cougar before you buy!!

 

PS: It's not because a stick is cheap that it is bad. I used a Microsoft stick for almost 4 years but it lost a lot of it's capability's when Microsoft decided not to rewrite the software to program it. This made it a ordinairy DirectX stick and from 16 programmable buttons, it went down to 9. This was not enough for my taste and therefore looked out for something new which turned out to be a Cougar. At first, without moddification, it sucked big time (imho) and it wasn't value for money at all in my eyes considering the price. With mod, the price roared skyhigh but it's value increased a lot more.

 

This is good and useful info but does this modification void the warranty and thus Thrustmaster will not suport this joystick?

[Wags]

I was not a big fan of the stock Cougar due to the axis flats, but once I had it modded with Evenstrain internals, I don't know of a better HOTAS.

 

-Matt

[Yellonet]

This is good and useful info but does this modification void the warranty and thus Thrustmaster will not suport this joystick?

Most likely, but TM seems to be pretty generous with spare parts, at least worn out buttons and such, but I don't have a Cougar so I'm not sure.

[Yellonet]

I was not a big fan of the stock Cougar due to the axis flats, but once I had it modded with Evenstrain internals, I don't know of a better HOTAS.

 

-Matt

So how much have you spent on your HOTAS in total? :)

[Guest ruggbutt]

ULF has posted that it's taken months to get parts from the manufacturer for his Cougar.

[Yellonet]

ULF has posted that it's taken months to get parts from the manufacturer for his Cougar.

Ouch.

[Guest ruggbutt]

He translated the Cougar manual into German for them. He's been a Cougar fan for (it seems like) forever. He's fed up w/them though. Anyone wanna guess what equipment he's using now? If you guessed CH you'd be right.

 

If you notice, the majority of people extolling the virtues of a Cougar always make the argument that it's metal. That's the best argument they have...........................My mobile phone has hit the ground literally dozens of times. It still works after 5 years and it's plastic. To me, the metal/plastic argument is a joke.

[Manny]

He translated the Cougar manual into German for them. He's been a Cougar fan for (it seems like) forever. He's fed up w/them though. Anyone wanna guess what equipment he's using now? If you guessed CH you'd be right.

 

If you notice, the majority of people extolling the virtues of a Cougar always make the argument that it's metal. That's the best argument they have...........................My mobile phone has hit the ground literally dozens of times. It still works after 5 years and it's plastic. To me, the metal/plastic argument is a joke.

 

I tend to agree rugg. The metal/plastic argument is weak at best considering ABS molded plastic is as durable as metal as well as cheaper. Automotive manufacturers know this for sure.

 

Thus, metal does not smell fo JP4 to me. I am concerned with construction, trust, durability, and customer support and apprarently Thrustmaster has none at the momoent. Too bad cause when I owned the F-22 and need new POTs, I had em with days.

 

My concern is I will purchase a Cougar and open 'er up to find a mess everywhere. I would have to rewrap and reroute wiring, clean up the insides removing debri, reloub, clean POTs, resolder poor joints, reattach loose connectors and fittings, clean the gimbals, adjust the spring constant and force, put it al back together to find a wire poped off a button or paint is flaking off (not a prob anymore I read.)

 

That does not speak of a quality product worth using. It sure brings back memories of the F-22 Pro and POT debacle Thrustmaster went through.

[504MrWolf]

i would take a CHProduct over the TM anyday.