Announcing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3

[VAOZoky]

I dont want to discuss anything about FC3 which is disappointing like FC2(that I bought anyways) and I will probably buy it like I did with FC2. Only one thing please just remove that picture of Su-27 firing an advance flight modelled R-27ER(R,ET,T whatever it is) which looks like trying to do a deceiving cobra maneuver(well if you add thrust vectoring to 27 series missiles it might look fine at those altitudes). BTW in last patch of DCS:World, missiles doing very very strange things like rolling vertically, I hope by missile AFM you fixed those things.

 

This is the first thing i noticed too :). I comentated on out TS that that r27 must be doing cobra :lol:

 

Edited September 4, 2012 by VAO*Zoky

[USAFMTL]

Here it comes...the Flankerwhining.....so in a patch they will cut the nuts off the F-15 and the SU-27 will be the uber plane again, then the F-15 crowd will complain, and the cycle repeats. One of the reasons I hardly played the sim was because the F-15 has always 2nd fiddle to the Flanker, that is why you have servers with all Flankers etc.

Edited September 4, 2012 by USAFMTL

[EtherealN]

AIM-120C and AIM-120B were given much needed improved ballistics, no other missile was. The B and R-77 are relatively equal as per FC2 while the new C is an improvement on both.

 

All missiles were re-evaluated according to available data.

[LAB]

My first reaction was the same. Now im just thinking a well its better then nothing and at least we are going forward.

 

FC3 is not moving forwards .. it's just 4-5 steps back.

 

FC is fine for people who dont want realism. but let them keep their own playground..

 

a mix of high fidelity and low fidelity planes in DCSW makes no sense for me :) sorry

 

I bought all DCS products.. but I do not buy FC3..

 

I do not pay $40 for the same again but I will gladly donate $100 if ED doing more high fidelity planes as a-10c and BS2

[Frostie]

Here it comes...the Flankerwhining.....so in a patch they will cut the nuts off the F-15 and the SU-27 will be the uber plane again, then the F-15 crowd will complain, and the cycle repeats. One of the reasons I hardly played the sim was because the F-15 has always 2nd fiddle to the Flanker, that is why you have servers with all Flankers etc.

Good for you for not being able to fly F-15 well so blame it on the game, keep it up or not.

 

The only exclusive update in FC2 for Su-27 and MiG-29 was having the maddog ET/R77 and AIM-120 (for F-15) capability rightfully reduced.

This negative on gameplay, right or wrong, added with the bonus exclusive updates for the F-15 just created a feeling of F-15 update among many pro Russian aircraft players. How this is not clearly evident and rather chosen to be ignored and cryed off as pathetic whining is plain daft. Ofcourse there is a shift to promote F-15 in FC2 and FC3. And probably part to do with the fact when FC1 came out a lot F-15 pilots became dissillusioned with the poor performing AIM-120.

 

The fact for ED is that you can't please all of the people all of the time, but you have got to accept a lot of people are going to be upset when too much focus is put on one aircraft for too long.

[GGTharos]

It's simulating the AoA of the missile :)

 

This is the first thing i noticed too :). I comentated on out TS that that r27 must be doing cobra :lol:

[EtherealN]

Frostie,

 

Give me my F-15C AFM.

 

Then complain. :P

 

(Though, tbh, the Frog is still my true love, but you get the point. ;) )

[Milene]

FC3 is not moving forwards .. it's just 4-5 steps back.

 

FC is fine for people who dont want realism. but let them keep their own playground..

 

a mix of high fidelity and low fidelity planes in DCSW makes no sense for me :) sorry

 

I bought all DCS products.. but I do not buy FC3..

 

I do not pay $40 for the same again but I will gladly donate $100 if ED doing more high fidelity planes as a-10c and BS2

 

Lookin at HF and LF your right. Lookin at integrating everything in one package so all people can have fun together its stepping forward. Sure if your a HF person stick to your playground but why not mix the whole shabam and do wonderfull stuff. I dont mind playing a HF CAS mission and the other day same mission but this time as LF SEAD in the Frog or CAP Mig,Su,F15.

 

I rather have a beginning enthiousatic person flying CAP above my head when i move mud in my warthog then seeing a retarted AI in it.

 

So it simply does make sense! The only thing that never made sense was the Pony but thats a different story :smilewink:

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I do not pay $40 for the same again but I will gladly donate $100 if ED doing more high fidelity planes as a-10c and BS2

+1

[mmaruda]

Lookin at integrating everything in one package so all people can have fun together its stepping forward.

 

No it's not, it's something most game developers figured out in 2006. Not to mention that not everyone plays online, and the online component of DCS is still far from being solid. BTW when do track replays get fixed? The way it is now reminds me of the state of thing when Starcraft introduced replays back in 1999.

 

But ok, so let's get this straight on the list of improvements.

 

Missiles corrected. F-15 with a new pit and some upgrades. No specific info as for the Russian jets (can we please have the cobra back now?!). Su-25 and A-10A being useless for the most part with better missiles, MANPADS, AAA firing on the like turkeys. And also, the Russian jets are still the 1990's version. Improved handling on take off.

 

And... expanded theater into Georgia. Now why would ED mislead their customers? The map does not get expanded, it's just the map we have in DCS World, and it's free with the Su-25T.

 

So to sum up:

 

6DOF F-15 - couldn't care less, I don't use TIR, and there is no point in mouse 6DOF without click-able pits, and I also don't like the Eagle.

Any improvements to the A-10A are of no interest to me, I fly the Charlie Hog.

Su-25... pretty much a useless sitting duck, good for target practice, plus the T version is free already, and also outdated.

That leaves me with the Mig-29 and the Flankers, which get... updated missiles, which is just as thrilling for as the fact that I can turn on the windshield wipers in the Ka-50.

 

And all this for $40. Nope, sorry, but just no.

[159th_Viper]

 

I do not pay $40 for the same again but I will gladly donate $100 if ED doing more high fidelity planes as a-10c and BS2

 

You forget that every single $40 paid is going towards the development of a high fidelity DCS Fighter, in line with your statement as above.

Edited September 4, 2012 by 159th_Viper

[JABO2009]

FC3 is not moving forwards .. it's just 4-5 steps back.

 

FC is fine for people who dont want realism. but let them keep their own playground..

 

a mix of high fidelity and low fidelity planes in DCSW makes no sense for me :) sorry

 

I bought all DCS products.. but I do not buy FC3..

 

I do not pay $40 for the same again but I will gladly donate $100 if ED doing more high fidelity planes as a-10c and BS2

 

Its not about if FC3 is moving forward. FC3 will move nowhere, its the last of this series and its main contribution to DCSW is the integration of flyable fast movers. period.

 

the mix of high and low fidelity is absolutely OK. everyone can choose.

 

If ED had the capacities we probably would have all the FC3 flyables as DCS standalones anyway. but like any other sim, you cant have everything anytime. same old discussion.

 

what we already have is fantastic. for me FC3 is a must have.

Edited September 4, 2012 by JABO2009

[159th_Viper]

 

So to sum up:

 

6DOF F-15 - couldn't care less, I don't use TIR, and there is no point in mouse 6DOF without click-able pits, and I also don't like the Eagle.

Any improvements to the A-10A are of no interest to me, I fly the Charlie Hog.

Su-25... pretty much a useless sitting duck, good for target practice, plus the T version is free already, and also outdated.

That leaves me with the Mig-29 and the Flankers, which get... updated missiles, which is just as thrilling for as the fact that I can turn on the windshield wipers in the Ka-50.

 

And all this for $40. Nope, sorry, but just no.

 

Have you read this post?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93704

 

What part is unclear regarding the budgeted development costs and features?

[mmaruda]

Have you read this post?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93704

 

What part is unclear regarding the budgeted development costs and features?

 

 

Everything is clear, but last time I checked I had the right to have a personal opinion.

 

What I don't seem to understand is why you feel the need to counter-comment everyone who expresses their disappointment with what was announced about FC3. The announcement was made, people provide feedback. Some think FC3 is going to be great, so people feel it's not enough for the price tag - it's their right to think that and ED has the benefit of free feedback. :)

[FLANKERATOR]

Product window ant time restriction are very understandable.

However, according to Wags, FC3 was born to fill the MP gap for DCS customers. So since it is online related, maybe asking the online community about which aircraft they would like to see getting extra features would at least have served this matter better. I have nothing against the Eagle, but frankly focusing on the same aircraft over and over again would end up frustrating one side or the other.

[159th_Viper]

What I don't seem to understand is why you feel the need to counter-comment everyone who expresses their disappointment with what was announced about FC3.

 

Who is everyone? I think (edit: I know) I posted twice with the intention of calling out blatant biasses in this thread that has 630-odd posts. Cm'on now what are you on about?

 

In any event, the reason is simple: To alleviate possible misconceptions.

 

A newcomer to these boards might open this thread, read the page and mistakenly leave with the impression that FC3 is, according to your summary,

 

6DOF F-15 - couldn't care less, I don't use TIR, and there is no point in mouse 6DOF without click-able pits, and I also don't like the Eagle.

Any improvements to the A-10A are of no interest to me, I fly the Charlie Hog.

Su-25... pretty much a useless sitting duck, good for target practice, plus the T version is free already, and also outdated.

That leaves me with the Mig-29 and the Flankers, which get... updated missiles, which is just as thrilling for as the fact that I can turn on the windshield wipers in the Ka-50.

 

We both know that is not correct and not not the entire truth insofar as to how the $40 price-tag was arrived at. By all means have an opinion, but make sure that when basing your opinion on fact, you mention ALL the facts and not just those that are advantageous to your opinion.

 

That is why I counter-comment: To ensure that everyone is aware of ALL the facts in any given matter.

Edited September 4, 2012 by 159th_Viper

[EtherealN]

Focusing on the same aircraft over and over?

 

No-one did.

 

Or well, every "fanboy" (meant in the good way - I'm a fanboy for a lot of aircraft too!) does with every product announcement, be they F-15 or Flanker or Mig fans. But ED didn't. What happens is that everyone sees ONLY what they consider to be special treatment for the other side, but forget what happened for their own fav plane.

[EtherealN]

Let me put it like this; a product release happens:

 

Ru-bird fan: OMG why didn't the MiG get X?

US-bird fan: OMG why didn't the Eagle get Y?

Ru-bird fan: You don't need Y because you got Z!

US-bird fan: You ALSO got Z!

 

at the same time:

 

Europe-bird fan: You guys, please chill out for a sec and remember the rest of the world? :P

[mmaruda]

Viper that is on of the most far fetched explanations I have read here. Would you really assume that someone who just came to these forums would base their opinion on a product solely on my single post in a now 64-page thread?

 

You either think very poorly of newcomers, or very highly of me.

[EtherealN]

mmaruda, you know perfectly well that people don't read entire threads. They read the first few posts and then what happens to be the last posts at the time they log in. ;)

[159th_Viper]

Viper that is on of the most far fetched explanations I have read here.....

 

That's fine.

 

Just be aware that, as said, when posting opinions based on fact, you at the very least link to all the relevant facts and not just those that favour your version. If not, do not act surprised if/when somebody calls you out on it and highlights facts to the contrary.

 

Let's get back on topic now shall we.

[EtherealN]

Let's get back on topic now shall we.

 

Yeah. I think we should talk about next release:

 

 

Okey okey, I'll go get my meds now. :)

[159th_Viper]

I have it on good advice that those two mini-guns really will stall that tractor if fired simultaneously (or at the very least introduce a catastrophic cartwheel), leading to the inevitable 'ploughing of multiple furrows' when tractor meets field. At least it will be an effective dual-role platform, ie duster and plough :P

[FLANKERATOR]

Let me put it like this; a product release happens:

 

Ru-bird fan: OMG why didn't the MiG get X?

US-bird fan: OMG why didn't the Eagle get Y?

Ru-bird fan: You don't need Y because you got Z!

US-bird fan: You ALSO got Z!

 

at the same time:

 

Europe-bird fan: You guys, please chill out for a sec and remember the rest of the world? :P

 

Pretty much the picture indeed, funny as it is !

 

I will wait to have a closer look at FC3 and hope all serious bugs would become things of the past. That would be a meager satisfaction for Russian jets 'fanboys' ;)

 

High hopes on MP stability as well.

[mmaruda]

That's fine.

 

Just be aware that, as said, when posting opinions based on fact, you at the very least link to all the relevant facts and not just those that favor your version. If not, do not act surprised if/when somebody calls you out on it and highlights facts to the contrary.

 

You are right, I have posted opinions. I won't be surprised if somebody call me out on any factual posting, and highlights the facts to the contrary. I will be very surprised however, if any contrary facts will change my personal feelings. And right now I feel that at the current price tag, FC3 is not for me.

 

Which leads me to the conclusion that you have some ill agenda to prove anyone without a favorable opinion regarding an ED product wrong. Please understand that this is not about right and wrong, but people speaking their minds, which differ from person to person. Some people are enthusiastic, some people are disappointed, that's how it is. Providing facts as to why FC3 is the way it is, does not change a thing. It's for the people to decide on their own how much bang they get for their hard earned money and if someone decides it's not enough bang for the buck or they just cannot afford it, than trolling each post they make is not going to change their mind. Unless of course the point is just to discourage the non-praisers from posting?