agathorn Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 I'm sure others have noticed this but I just ran into it when I decided to be "proper" on my approach and set the altimeter for the new field. The QFE codes are WAAY off. Are they just gibberish and there for flavor or something? Intel i7-4770k @ 4.4ghz, 32gb ram, GTX 1080ti, Oculus Rift S Advanced apologies if my post contains typos or missing letters. Many of my posts are typed on a laptop with an old keyboard that has a personality all its own.
peter Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Yes, they are very wrong, noticed this for a while. Its a very minute detail since we are not really conducting instrument approaches very much but an annoying detail none the less.
genbrien Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Just to make sure that you know that QFEs are for having 0' at the airport, and not the airport altitude when you're on the ground Do you think that getting 9 women pregnant will get you a baby in 1 month?[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Mobo: Asus P8P67 deluxe Monitor: Lg 22'' 1920*1080 CPU: i7 2600k@ 4.8Ghz +Zalman CNPS9900 max Keyboard: Logitech G15 GPU:GTX 980 Strix Mouse: Sidewinder X8 PSU: Corsair TX750w Gaming Devices: Saytek X52, TrackIr5 RAM: Mushkin 2x4gb ddr3 9-9-9-24 @1600mhz Case: 690 SSD: Intel X25m 80gb
Echo38 Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Just to make sure that you know that QFEs are for having 0' at the airport, and not the airport altitude when you're on the ground I don't understand--it looks as though this statement were a contradiction. Could you clarify?
genbrien Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 I don't understand--it looks as though this statement were a contradiction. Could you clarify? QFEs are used in the Eastern country; When you're on the ground at an airport that is, let say, at 200', QFE will give you 0' on your altimeter. (compare to QNH that will give you 200' when on ground) :thumbup::smartass: Do you think that getting 9 women pregnant will get you a baby in 1 month?[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Mobo: Asus P8P67 deluxe Monitor: Lg 22'' 1920*1080 CPU: i7 2600k@ 4.8Ghz +Zalman CNPS9900 max Keyboard: Logitech G15 GPU:GTX 980 Strix Mouse: Sidewinder X8 PSU: Corsair TX750w Gaming Devices: Saytek X52, TrackIr5 RAM: Mushkin 2x4gb ddr3 9-9-9-24 @1600mhz Case: 690 SSD: Intel X25m 80gb
agathorn Posted September 28, 2012 Author Posted September 28, 2012 Just to make sure that you know that QFEs are for having 0' at the airport, and not the airport altitude when you're on the ground Right. The QFE value is supposed to be the barometric pressure that when entered into your altimeter will give you 0' when on the ground at that airport. They however do not. They are very far off. As in off by thousands. Intel i7-4770k @ 4.4ghz, 32gb ram, GTX 1080ti, Oculus Rift S Advanced apologies if my post contains typos or missing letters. Many of my posts are typed on a laptop with an old keyboard that has a personality all its own.
159th_Falcon Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Nope, QFE call-outs are SPOT ON. Mind you though that Russian planes use altimeters calibrated for QFE American planes like the A10C are calibrated in hPa i believe, so you will need to convert it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
agathorn Posted September 28, 2012 Author Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Nope, QFE call-outs are SPOT ON. Mind you though that Russian planes use altimeters calibrated for QFE American planes like the A10C are calibrated in hPa i believe, so you will need to convert it. EDIT: So a bit more reading and I realize I was indeed confusing QFE with QNH. Still though, I don't understand why we're getting useless radio calls. Who the heck here can convert that in their head? Or am I still missing something. I mean I can ignore it all and use the radar altimeter, but why are the ATCs giving values that can't be used? Edited September 28, 2012 by agathorn Intel i7-4770k @ 4.4ghz, 32gb ram, GTX 1080ti, Oculus Rift S Advanced apologies if my post contains typos or missing letters. Many of my posts are typed on a laptop with an old keyboard that has a personality all its own.
159th_Falcon Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Because we are flying in an area of the world were this is the military standard. (civil standard as well?) And thus it is realistic to let the ATC give you those values. Wether or not they are useful to you in there given state depends on the airframe and the units it uses. As per real life any necessary conversions are not the problem of ATC but the pilots. (and/or maybe Flight Operations) I believe the Russians use mm.hg (milli meters of mercury) 1 hpa = 0.7500616827042 mm.hg 1 mm.hg = 1.333223684211 hpa Maybe make an excell sheet to do the conversions for you? Or search online for unit converters to put on your PC? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
MeerCaT Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 I must admit, without understanding the immense technicalities and the different methods/mechanisms involved here, I can say I have never noticed any significant inaccuracy with the QFE callouts. Certainly not in the 1000’s. I have been training a lot of ILS/TACAN landings recently and I have not encountered any such issue. Have I just been lucky, or is one of us misunderstanding something here? Is it more prominent at certain airports?
159th_Falcon Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Well, unless you specify anything different in the mission editor, the sim will always use a default pressure setting. This pressure setting is also defaulted for all airframes, hence the probable reason why you never noticed it. Now if you set a different pressure in the ME, and go refly your approaches, you will find the altitude error due to the different units of measurement being used. (though, if your strictly using ILS you still get to the runway, despite the altitude indicator reading -500 feet for example.) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
agathorn Posted September 28, 2012 Author Posted September 28, 2012 I must admit, without understanding the immense technicalities and the different methods/mechanisms involved here, I can say I have never noticed any significant inaccuracy with the QFE callouts. Certainly not in the 1000’s. I have been training a lot of ILS/TACAN landings recently and I have not encountered any such issue. Have I just been lucky, or is one of us misunderstanding something here? Is it more prominent at certain airports? The one time I tried to use it, the indicated pressure gave me an altitude that was over 7,000 feet off. Intel i7-4770k @ 4.4ghz, 32gb ram, GTX 1080ti, Oculus Rift S Advanced apologies if my post contains typos or missing letters. Many of my posts are typed on a laptop with an old keyboard that has a personality all its own.
159th_Falcon Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Because you didn't convert the units from mm.hg to hpa right? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
Echo38 Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 But it isn't exactly probable that A-10C's would be flying out of Russian airbases with American ATCs, either, as we currently do in the sim, so, given that situation, why wouldn't those American ATC's use the units which the U.S. A-10's use, when the A-10 pilots ask? In other words, it isn't technically right (as you noted) for the ATCs at Russian airbases to be using American units, but, then, neither is it right for the A-10s to be flying out of those airbases, nor for those ATCs to be American. So, the ATCs giving the A-10's the units that real A-10 pilots normally use is no more improbable than the current situation of the ATCs are the Russian airbase being American (or, at least, speaking perfect English with an American accent). Moreover, since those ATCs are, in this simulated situation, American (by the evidence of their language, accents, and the basing of the A-10C at those airbases), it is thus actually more reasonable for them to give the A-10 pilots American units and not the Russian units. Q.E.D. ; )
Evil.Bonsai Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 I don't know what anyone else is seeing, but everytime I've gotten a qfe, and adjusted the altimeter to match, it's always been a hair above 0, pretty much what you'd want it to be to know how high off the runway you were. I honestly don't know what qfe or qnh actually are, but in-sim, it's just something I use to tell me how high above the ground I am. Which is kinda important.
agathorn Posted September 28, 2012 Author Posted September 28, 2012 I wonder if it has to do with my mission that I created not having something set properly. But when I got a QFE of 3995, it gave me an insanely high altitude which was incorrect. As Falcon states, I did NOT convert it, but others are saying the QFEs work for them? Is everyone converting them? Intel i7-4770k @ 4.4ghz, 32gb ram, GTX 1080ti, Oculus Rift S Advanced apologies if my post contains typos or missing letters. Many of my posts are typed on a laptop with an old keyboard that has a personality all its own.
Eddie Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 There is no need to convert the QFE given by the sim ATC if you want to use QFE, as it is already given in inches of mercury. The only time you'd need to convert is if you want to use QNH (as you should in the A-10C) instead. But then in you're on the ground QNH can be set without even talking to ATC as you simply need to set your altimeter to read airfield elevation.
159th_Falcon Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Hmmm, what version of A10C are you using? There where problems whit QFE and such in earlier versions. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
Eddie Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 1.1.1.1 works fine for me, and every other member of the 476th, when flying online.
159th_Falcon Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 roger but; There is no need to convert the QFE given by the sim ATC if you want to use QFE, as it is already given in inches of mercury. The only time you'd need to convert is if you want to use QNH (as you should in the A-10C) instead. But then in you're on the ground QNH can be set without even talking to ATC as you simply need to set your altimeter to read airfield elevation. True, but what if you left from Batumi and are landing at Sochi? (and the mission designer decided to use dynamic weather) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
Eddie Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Then you just convert the QFE supplied by ATC to QNH.
Stuka Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 roger but; True, but what if you left from Batumi and are landing at Sochi? (and the mission designer decided to use dynamic weather) In that case I'm contacting Sochi ATC. They tell me what the QFE is, and I convert it to QNH. Using an app called "Weather calcs" for that on the Ipad. Always spot on. Windows 11 | i9 12900KF | 64GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals | TM MFDs + Lilliput 8" | TIR5 Pro
agathorn Posted September 28, 2012 Author Posted September 28, 2012 Hmmm, what version of A10C are you using? There where problems whit QFE and such in earlier versions. How do I tell what version I am running? I know it is NOT 1.2 because i've heard some mixed things about that version so have not upgraded. Intel i7-4770k @ 4.4ghz, 32gb ram, GTX 1080ti, Oculus Rift S Advanced apologies if my post contains typos or missing letters. Many of my posts are typed on a laptop with an old keyboard that has a personality all its own.
159th_Falcon Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Go to Mission Editor, MISC and then credits. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:)
agathorn Posted September 28, 2012 Author Posted September 28, 2012 v1.1.0.7 Just flew from Mozdok to Nalchik. Nalchik tower gave me a QFE of 3869 which, when set, gave me an altitude close to 8,000 higher than what the radar altimeter was saying. Intel i7-4770k @ 4.4ghz, 32gb ram, GTX 1080ti, Oculus Rift S Advanced apologies if my post contains typos or missing letters. Many of my posts are typed on a laptop with an old keyboard that has a personality all its own.
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