The intricacies of cross-wind landing?

[Tailgate]

I've found the tailwheel to be a lot more stable compared to 1.2.0, a more weighted feel.

[TX-EcoDragon]

No it doesn't work, it should, but it doesn't, that's what I've been trying to point out. The slightest rate of descent on a two wheel landing will result in an over exaggerated bounce in full realism in the sim

 

Oh, well...I guess I shouldn't say things about it until I can actually use the sim again!

 

Unfortunately, I had all of my sim gear stolen from me (along with nearly everything I own) and am in the process of buying everything again, which is a slow process, and sim hardware isn't yet at the top of the list, even though I'm in serious withdrawal! :joystick:

[VIMANAMAN]

Nice one again TX Ecodragon!

 

As always - some VERY useful stuff here again Dragon TY - I had pushed my luck / lack of technique and correct procedure to the limits with my self imposed practise strong Xwind exercise! With a slightly silly 24.5mph xwind and 2.5m/s turb, I could get up and down again, but only a little over half the time (occasionally with some style but luck had a big hand in it when this was the case). This I took as a good indicator I was doing something wrong ! :) I think the manual also kind of mislead me a bit, it seems to state wheelers were the way to go for strong Xwinds? but I'm a stubborn type so have preserved.

 

As per your advice, doing 3 pointers, maxing the ailerons to wind, and dito the tail to the deck when rolling makes for a much more stable platform! Simply making that change meant I wasn't doing 'carrier landings' anymore! :) And overnight so to speak, I stopped breaking airplanes (most of the time anyway).

 

Speaking of breaking air planes - read as braking - I also don't need to use the brakes for anything other than (light) braking at the end of the roll, and in a straight line, which I now understand is a good thing:)

 

Re Trim - I'd forgotten what a difference properly trimming the elevator can have! As with all high performance taildraggers (from my sim experience only anyway:()the rudder dominates everything, trimming the rudder is essential! As a consequence I've neglected the finer points of elevator trim (unless in level cruise obviously). Holy cow! Trimming the elevator on final has made a massive difference - after extending the final some what - it's made a significant decrease in workload! It's like VNAV auto pilot now (relatively speaking:))! I'd really forgotten about this!

 

Re Power control for final and touchdown and relating this to proper trim on approach -

 

But I'm an opinionated sort and in the real world my stance is that if I need throttle during the landing flair and touchdown, then I've messed up. That doesn't mean it's always a bad idea, or that I will never use it....

 

:) Yep that makes sense to me to - now elevator trim is remembered - although I'm sure It'll be a while before I get it right anything like frequently.

 

Echo has suggested 'dead sticking' a couple of times, thx Echo. Until I fully reintroduced myself to my elevator trim tabs following Dragons' last post I didn't really see the advantage of trying that, as I was having problems enough with the Xwind, which was the immediate problem - but sounds like an excellent piloting challenge, and a good skills building exercise. But something to practise initially in a fair weather flight, for me anyway, thanks both!

 

Re Peripheral vision - On T/O roll I was focsing on the junction of the dash and the right hand edge of the RWY - which was OK - but what you suggest gives a much better general sense of alignment and corrections needed - top tip! I will use this, thx.

 

Sorted out my T/O transitions - I was letting the air plane fly me not the other way around - now I hold her down until close to 150mph then positively depart terra firma - with a slightly exaggerated (unintended) swing around my upwind wheel :)

 

And Sorted out my Touchdowns which were OK but I started bouncing toward the end of previous progress vid - 3 pointer bounce? Duh! don't go so fast! So now I'm not :)

 

I've had a few days off from work... when I've had an hour here and there (still only had 3 ish hrs to practise overall :() I've applied and tried to polish these further points - and have made further 'step changes' with making reliable strong Xwind circuits. Still more practise needed...

 

Thanks again Dragon and everyone else that's helped here.

 

Enclosed a boring circuit vid but as you'll hopefully agree all the elements are there now - but further finesse needed :thumbup:

 

 

PS Sorry to hear your place got done over, hope it's as straight forward as pos sorting that!

 

PPS _ I'm all 1.2 still - didn't want to update in the middle of stuff - will mark all posts & update shortly.

Edited October 9, 2012 by VIMANAMAN

[Echo38]

I've mentioned this before on this forum, but I knew a real P-51 pilot who was killed (and his passenger, too, and the P-51 completely destroyed) when he lost power on approach. Low approaches under power are so foolish that I am completely boggled as to why any pilots choose them. I guess overconfidence and/or poor training.

[SnowTiger]

I only noticed a single mention of a WIND SOCK in this Thread (after searching for that), but no response to it that I could find.

So I am curious: IS There any future consideration to have a Wind Sock placed at Air Fields (like in the Real World) ?

I have never seen an Airport without out .... at least no Private Airports that support small aircraft.

 

I almost Never know which way to go down a runway when taking off or landing because I never know which direction the wind is coming from OR even when there is No Wind Indicated. How are we supposed to know which direction to go on any runway when taking off or landing ?

Furthermore, I am even more confused when the Briefing suggests that there is a Cross Wind. It might suggest a direction but unless the Compass is tracking correctly (and I find it often doesn't ... but that just might be me not having a clue yet !!), I have no idea which way it is coming from in relation to the runway, especially when I don't even know which way I'm supposed to go in the first place.

 

An airfield Wind Sock would be a Huge Help to "thick-headed"dorks like me.

 

Can someone please shed some light on this for me ?

PS> If my question(s) should be posted in their own forum thread, I'd be happy to repost and I apologize in advance for any inconvenience to readers of this forum thread.

[159th_Viper]

 

I almost Never know which way to go down a runway when taking off or landing because I never know which direction the wind is coming from OR even when there is No Wind Indicated. How are we supposed to know which direction to go on any runway when taking off or landing......

 

Smoke-Stacks or Chimney Smoke........They are a dime-a-dozen around airfields. I do agree that wind-socks are a necessity and IIRC have been on the internal wish-list for a while now, that coupled with placeable grass strip airfields.

[Merlin-27]

Smoke-Stacks or Chimney Smoke........They are a dime-a-dozen around airfields. I do agree that wind-socks are a necessity and IIRC have been on the internal wish-list for a while now, that coupled with placeable grass strip airfields.

 

YES! Been wondering about this as well. I'm still instinctively looking for the sock... no doubt one of these days it will appear.

[Smokin Hole]

This is sort of a dead thread. But I just read the whole thing and I must say that if you are a budding real tailwheel pilot, and you read everything TX-Ecodragon has written here, you will be a damn sight smarter than you were before reading. We should all send him $20 for the ground school.

[Echo38]

I must say that if you are a budding real tailwheel pilot, and you read everything TX-Ecodragon has written here, you will be a damn sight smarter than you were before reading.

 

I echo this!

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Well, great thread VIMANAMAN!!! And I was only made aware of it today morning :-/

 

All of the posts have been very useful in describing not only the details of DCS's p51d FDM but also the RL techniques that can be used for takeoffs and landings under x-winds...

 

I fly only gliders and thus have my task somehow simplified in some aspects, but a bit more complicated in other situations... specially with the higher aspect ratio models...

 

Regarding bouncing in the DCS p51d, Yo-Yo, I have to say, is completely wrong when he claims that "nothing has changed from the initial beta release". Sorry Yo-Yo, but something very important has changed, at least for me... PRACTICE!!!!! We learned how to fly the p51d in DCS - that's what changed!!!! And in my case it was quite a change.... ;-)

 

When I look at my takeoofs and landings during the first week with DCS p51 (and DCS World for that mater), and remember reading across the forum the posts where some users debated the possible inaccuracies of the p51 physics specially during those phases I flight, making my Ego not get so low, I laugh at it, and at me, and even wonder how it all became so damn simple now... It's probably time to start practicing air combat, and trying to make myself at home with flying online - something I tried to do for the very 1st time last night, and got me completely lost (RFM, I know...)

 

Now, regarding bouncing, and while I can't yet figure how to convert a track into a MOV with DCS's included app, I attach an example of a very short circuit and mission where the wind is blowing at 12m/s, turb factor 6, I use no rudder trim on takeoff, and approach in a very wrong way, thus "smashing" her into the rw.... Observe the minimal bounce even given the energy we had when we touched down (we, me and her.... it's a her, isn't it ???).

 

DCS RULEZ!!!! :-))))))))))) I LOVE THIS SIM!!! And (wife can't even dream about me writing this!!! Shhhhh) I LOVE HER, Miss P51d ;-)

windyShortCircuit.trk

X-Wind Takeoff.miz

Edited March 16, 2013 by jcomm

[Yo-Yo]

 

Regarding bouncing in the DCS p51d, Yo-Yo, I have to say, is completely wrong when he claims that "nothing has changed from the initial beta release". Sorry Yo-Yo, but something very important has changed, at least for me... PRACTICE!!!!! We learned how to fly the p51d in DCS - that's what changed!!!! And in my case it was quite a change.... ;-)

 

You are absolutely right. I wrote somewhen that as I had rudder pedal not functional and noticed it only TO run, I managed to proceed it successfully using only a keyboard. :)

3 - point touch, 2-point touch... whatever - they all go safly now.

 

 

Now, regarding bouncing, and while I can't yet figure how to convert a track into a MOV with DCS's included app, I attach an example of a very short circuit and mission where the wind is blowing at 12m/s, turb factor 6, I use no rudder trim on takeoff, and approach in a very wrong way, thus "smashing" her into the rw.... Observe the minimal bounce even given the energy we had when we touched down (we, me and her.... it's a her, isn't it ???).

 

DCS RULEZ!!!! :-))))))))))) I LOVE THIS SIM!!! And (wife can't even dream about me writing this!!! Shhhhh) I LOVE HER, Miss P51d ;-)

 

Will try to play the track on Mon. Video is very simple to convert. FLIHGT in pop-up menu. MAKE VIDEO.

You will see a list of tracks to choose from. Then you must specify the codec (use Theora or Uncompressed for hi-Q), screen resolution (800 x 600 is minimal formy videocard), framerate (25 or 30) and a output file name and location. Then you must specify the time range you want to be rendered. If you use 800 x 600 25 frames per second, a good idea is to use 2 minutes sequental parts for rendering.

As you have these parts rendered (do not forget to give them different names :)) you can assemble them together using free Virtual Dub software or edit the fragmented video in in a video editor.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Regarding cross wind what I still found difficult is even knowing where wind comes from to get the nose to wind like in real life specially during take-off. I guess it's just the lack of feelings in front of a screen, but it's weird because in RL you have "to do nothing" and nose gets pointed to wind at the moment you get airborne, in DCS I find I have to do things and still don't get it properly. Well really you don't have to point the nose to wind, but it's good because you're told all the time from instructors you shouldn't fight with controls but let her fly and Ponny is a very mad lady to fight with her controls, isn't it? :lol:

 

That said I also still wonder how far P-51 went as simulation... I want more like that!! :thumbup:

 

S!

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Will try to play the track on Mon. Video is very simple to convert. FLIHGT in pop-up menu.

 

Thx Yo-Yo. I will try to do some tests with this as soon as possible :-)