Pigmachine Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 But got it partly answered by a quick look around Advanced flight model? And another post I can't find anymore. About avionics on the other FC3 planes.. will they be up to 'par' with BS2 and A10.. or just pure easy murder machines against our self proclaimed 'study sims' .. while we are busy checking the oil pressure, will they just laugh and send us a bunch of missiles up out butt? Not to call FC2-3 arcade shooter, and not hardcore enough, since I will play around with the Mig29 (A mainly) when I get it's released CPU i7-6700K 4,3Ghz, RAM Corsair Vengeance LPX 2666M 2x16GB, GPU Gigabyte Gaming G1 GTX 1080, Monitor Benq 24" 1920x1080 @ 144Hz, MB ASUS Z170-A, OS Win 10 Pro (Creators ED), HOTAS X52 Pro, VR Oculus Rift Cv1
159th_Viper Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 About avionics on the other FC3 planes.. will they be up to 'par' with BS2 and A10.. or just pure easy murder machines against our self proclaimed 'study sims' .. while we are busy checking the oil pressure, will they just laugh and send us a bunch of missiles up out butt? That right there is the mistake a majority of people make here on the forum. Simplicity in modelling does not equate to an advantage. On the contrary, it actually equates to a distinct disadvantage. You stand a better chance in a 1vs1 in a DCS Fast-Jet as you would in a FC3 Fast-Jet - fact! Soooo......if you are getting a bunch of missiles slammed up your rear then it's time to get back to basics. And yes, just because FC3 pilots are gonna hand it to you in the beginning is not because of the FC3 modelling. It's because said FC3 pilots have mastered the basics, irrespective of the airframe they inhabit. If you think you're getting a hiding from a FC3 Pilot in a FC3 plane then start praying that the same FC3 Pilot does not get into DCS Plane......will be a slaughter :D 1 Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Pyroflash Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 ^ This is why ED will never make a DCS: F-15C. People would complain too much :P If you aim for the sky, you will never hit the ground.
YorZor Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 That right there is the mistake a majority of people make here on the forum. Simplicity in modelling does not equate to an advantage. On the contrary, it actually equates to a distinct disadvantage. You stand a better chance in a 1vs1 in a DCS Fast-Jet as you would in a FC3 Fast-Jet - fact! I'm sorry but how can you claim that? Have you flown a DCS Fast-jet?
Grimes Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 I'm sorry but how can you claim that? Have you flown a DCS Fast-jet? Its mostly based on the rightly-fully so assumption that anything created by ED under the DCS brand will be modeled in a detail as complete as possible. So while the FC fighters have a pretty decent modeling of the radar systems, an DCS version will simply do it better and have more of "everything else." The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
159th_Viper Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 I'm sorry but how can you claim that? Have you flown a DCS Fast-jet? Quite easily and No. This: DCS version will simply do it better and have more of "everything else." It's the 'everything else' that, pilot skill being even, will kick your a$$ six ways from Sunday in a FC3 jet vs a DCS jet. :) Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Milene Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Wouldnt jump to conclusions so quickly here ! Unless your 100% sure the radar in AFM Fast mover is way beyond par compared with the FC3 ones. If thats not the case time will tell and theres a chance ED killed its own franchise by mixing breeds Flanker, Flanker 2.0, Flanker 2.5, Lockon, FC1, FC2,FC3, BS1, BS2, A10C, CA and World [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
chromium Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 You will get this "problem" only if you fly in a server that allow mixing... if the mission designer do not include Su-27 as client (but only IA), there won't be any flyable Su-27... and so on. However, I agree with Grimes and Viper... :) Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/ Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.
Azraeil Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 You stand a better chance in a 1vs1 in a DCS Fast-Jet as you would in a FC3 Fast-Jet - fact! Evidence?
MadTommy Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Personally I can't say which side of the fence i fall in on this one, but one thing for sure there are some clear assumptions being portrayed as fact there. There is simply no way of knowing who would have the advantage in this hypothetical scenario. Just because one plane is modelled to a greater fidelity does not mean it will have an advantage (or disadvantage). Just because a system is not modelled accurately does not preclude it to be worse at its job. It is pure conjecture, simple as that. i5-3570K @ 4.5 Ghz, Asus P8Z77-V, 8 GB DDR3, 1.5GB GTX 480 (EVGA, superclocked), SSD, 2 x 1680x1050, x-fi extreme music. TM Warthog, Saitek combat pro pedals, TrackIR 4
EtherealN Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Evidence? Consider functions that are absent in FC planes. Easy example: where's the F-15's datalink? Being able to see aircraft detected by someone else is a pretty massive deal. Now add ability to launch on someone elses datalinked contact... Suddenly we have silent-launch slammers... Add to this the issue of radar modes: there's a reason a real F-15 offers more than the "vanilla" STT and TWS. The FC plane wouldn't have those additional capabilities. In the example of DCS vs FC, consider an A-10C without datalinks, without Force-Correlate, without markpoints, etcetera etcetera. I'm sure you'll agree that the DCS one would be more effective at it's job - if those things didn't help, they wouldn't be in the real bird either. But obviously, having them only helps you if you actually use them. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
104th_Crunch Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Etherealn has hit the nail on the head. You can be way more deadly in the A10C than the A10A. Anyway, there will be no DCS fighters vs. FC3 fighters initially. Just DCS strikers versus FC3 fighters.
Frostie Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 An FC aircraft has limitations compared to what a DCS aircraft can do, where as a DCS aircraft can do all what an FC aircraft can do just as effectively plus it should be able to do so much more. With regards to air to air employment, scanning, locking and launching are the basic functions required for this, both aircraft have this ability or are going to have this ability in equal measures so the aircraft with more strings to it's bow in this department is going to have an advantage. To think that aligning nav systems, setting weapon parameters and setting radio channels etc. has anything to do with A2A combat is a total misjudgement. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
MadTommy Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Etherealn has hit the nail on the head. You can be way more deadly in the A10C than the A10A. Anyway, there will be no DCS fighters vs. FC3 fighters initially. Just DCS strikers versus FC3 fighters. I think comparing two different aircraft with very different systems, as in the A10c/a is red herring in regards to this slightly silly but still interesting debate. I also think effectiveness against AI ground units versus player vs player are two different subjects entirely. Anyway, glad i cleared the subject up for you all :P i5-3570K @ 4.5 Ghz, Asus P8Z77-V, 8 GB DDR3, 1.5GB GTX 480 (EVGA, superclocked), SSD, 2 x 1680x1050, x-fi extreme music. TM Warthog, Saitek combat pro pedals, TrackIR 4
EtherealN Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 MadTommy, you can still look at what functions are missing from the FC A-10A, and deduce what would be missing in an FC A-10C. See my post. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
Azraeil Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Personally I can't say which side of the fence i fall in on this one, but one thing for sure there are some clear assumptions being portrayed as fact there. There is simply no way of knowing who would have the advantage in this hypothetical scenario. Just because one plane is modelled to a greater fidelity does not mean it will have an advantage (or disadvantage). Just because a system is not modelled accurately does not preclude it to be worse at its job. It is pure conjecture, simple as that. I didn't want to be quite as forward as that. Maybe the testers know something we don't ;)
GGTharos Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Not quite. The A-10A was also capable of hauling a TGP, and it also has the same CDU as the A-10C. Those two facts alone should make the comparison a little easier. I think comparing two different aircraft with very different systems, as in the A10c/a is red herring in regards to this slightly silly but still interesting debate. I also think effectiveness against AI ground units versus player vs player are two different subjects entirely. Anyway, glad i cleared the subject up for you all :P [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
159th_Viper Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 I didn't want to be quite as forward as that. Maybe the testers know something we don't ;) We do not - It is common sense. If anyone thinks that any FC3 plane is modelled to the standard of it's RL counterpart (in terms of functionality) then they will be sorely mistaken. To put it simply, it is as Frostie stated: A FC aircraft has limitations compared to what a DCS aircraft can do, where as a DCS aircraft can do all what an FC aircraft can do just as effectively plus it should be able to do so much more. The DCS aircraft will have more toys at it's disposal. More toys means more ways to make the FC3 aircraft's day an exercise in misery. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Azraeil Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Consider functions that are absent in FC planes. Easy example: where's the F-15's datalink? Being able to see aircraft detected by someone else is a pretty massive deal. Now add ability to launch on someone elses datalinked contact... Suddenly we have silent-launch slammers... Add to this the issue of radar modes: there's a reason a real F-15 offers more than the "vanilla" STT and TWS. The FC plane wouldn't have those additional capabilities. In the example of DCS vs FC, consider an A-10C without datalinks, without Force-Correlate, without markpoints, etcetera etcetera. I'm sure you'll agree that the DCS one would be more effective at it's job - if those things didn't help, they wouldn't be in the real bird either. But obviously, having them only helps you if you actually use them. Woah missed a whole page of posts there. Yeh, I knew you would bring up SADL stuff and I must admit, having flown the F15 in fc2 for the first time I really did miss the TAD. And yes, I actually agree with you. Edited October 14, 2012 by Azraeil
Recommended Posts