When should you use Rudder?

[bunraku]

Hi.

 

Might be a silly question, but i tend to use bank for my turns via the ailerons and never the rudder as it seems to cause bank as well as yaw if that makes sense. I'd love to be able to use the Rudder to line up straight on targets, but with the bank i get it defeats the purpose. I suppose i am not getting the little ball under the ADI centred?

 

Anyway i only use the Rudder really when i am taking off. Is this ok or should i be using it for lining up on targets and gun runs etc?

 

Thanx

[PhoenixBvo]

The SAS has a yaw damper channel meaning the flight control computer acts on the rudder to drive side slip to zero unless the pilot commands otherwise. This means that in moderate turns you hardly need rudder to keep the ball centered.

During gun strafing runs, the rudder AND stick must be used in combination to properly point the gun at the target and sometimes also to slightly pull a line of fire across a column.

There are other situations where a non zero side slip is required: think about a cross wind landing for example. Also in steep turns you have to give extra rudder input to stay coordinated.

 

The rudder causing a roll motion is normal and must be counteracted by the pilot. You'll find this in almost every aircraft to differing degrees.

Edited November 14, 2012 by PhoenixBvo

[WildBillKelsoe]

pretty much a light, split second touch on the rudder on final gun run approach to stabilize the yaw. Also applies to CCRP (not CCIP where bombs can collide with fuselage/other weapons and blow you to smithereens).

 

Additionally, rudder is chiefly used for crosswind landings..

 

Add to the above a rudder correction to clamp TVV (aircraft datum) on the specific pitch line during excessive bank only turns.

[Eddie]

Apart from take off and landing (with cross wind) you very rarely need to use rudder during normal flight in the A-10. The SAS takes care of turn coordination for you.

 

The only time you'll need to make manual rudder inputs on flight is if the SAS fails, you suffer an engine failure and any other system failure that results in an undesirable side slip that you need to correct.

[Ralph2]

Rudder is still awesome when u r lined up for a gun run but r just a little off left or right. It will also significantly increase your turn speed (by getting u in the sweet spot) and is great for correcting inverted down and full up 180s (vertical turn to and return to target manoeuvres, which r the basics of real grunt close air support). That said, Eddie is right that u can SAS ur way out of anything (necessity may be the mother of invention, but she isn't always the Sharpest tool in the shed).

Edited November 14, 2012 by Ralph2
Note that Eddie more SMRT than I.

[PFunk1606688187]

Apart from take off and landing (with cross wind) you very rarely need to use rudder during normal flight in the A-10. The SAS takes care of turn coordination for you.

 

The only time you'll need to make manual rudder inputs on flight is if the SAS fails, you suffer an engine failure and any other system failure that results in an undesirable side slip that you need to correct.

 

So if the ball is off centre its lying to me and I shouldn't use rudder?

 

I would think that anytime the ball slips you need rudder. I know that if I don't put some rudder in the ball stays off centre.

 

So... does the ball lie while SAS is turned on? Cause its hard to break the habit all these years of "stepping on the ball" if thats the case. :P

[PhoenixBvo]

The ball is just that, a physical ball rolling left and right wherever local acceleration pulls it. It cannot lie. So yes, use rudder as you need to keep it centered. The yaw damper channel in the SAS just also uses the rudder to help you with it, but it might not be perfect and it probably has limited control authority.

[Eddie]

At high bank angles the SAS may not have the control authority to coordinate the turn, so that would require pilot rudder input to coordinate. But given that of you're doing high bank angle turns you'll almost certainly be in combat turn coordination shouldn't be at the top of your to do list.

 

As for using rudder during attack runs, that's a big fat no-no. All you do is induce side slip which reduces accuracy and it also a slower way to move the nose than a quick bank & pull.

[Skall]

I'm pretty green as a flight-simmer but my research has led me to conclude that I should always keep the slip ball centered and that I should avoid using rudder when executing an attack as it messes up your round's trajectory. Also, if the strategy for egress is to get out of the hot zone ASAP, then I would imagine you'd want to make your break as efficient as possible to build up as much air speed as you can and get the hell out of there. Didn't read that anywhere, just concluded that from what seems to make sense to me.

[ENO]

I usually just use it to induce an aggressive side slip to slow Down quickly during an approach or crab walk slightly sideways to get lined up properly. This is done by simply crossing the controls- maintaining a bit if a balance with the inputs- depending on what you need. As for battle- only in some pretty wild rides I've needed to kick the tail up with heavy rudder inputs to help try and make myself hard to hit... But by then I'm just trying to be creative.

[bunraku]

Thanx for replies guys

[StrongHarm]

I've found that when low and slow, the only effective way to consistently avoid fire is to use the rudders. Try my tankbuster101 training mission and fly circles around the T-80s on the runway. After you get the hang of the rudders you'll be able to circle 1k above them and avoid fire all day long. If you watch some A-10 CAS footage, you'll notice that after they run in, you'll see them bank 90 with rudder on for nose drop. This makes you a very difficult target to hit and helps to maintain a higher speed in a high bank. (I suggest setting the sensitivity down on the rudders in the axis settings to avoid over controlling them.)

 

Also, when running in guns, it's ok to use your rudders to align, but be sure to stay off them while firing. I like to get off the rudders and engage PAC at least a mile out to ensure the FCS and SAS have time to auto-stabilize.

 

For great precision military pilots use a method called 'washing the stick'. It sounds crazy but it works. Stir the stick in a single direction just a few degrees off of center. Use your rudders in time with the circular motion at the inverse direction when stirring the ailerons(right rudder when stick is at 9oclock). While washing the stick you can make very minute corrections. I know I know.. it sounds crazy, but it works.. especially when air refueling.

[wmilosh]

Technique used by F-16 pilots.

 

For great precision military pilots use a method called 'washing the stick'. It sounds crazy but it works. Stir the stick in a single direction just a few degrees off of center. Use your rudders in time with the circular motion at the inverse direction when stirring the ailerons(right rudder when stick is at 9oclock). While washing the stick you can make very minute corrections. I know I know.. it sounds crazy, but it works.. especially when air refueling.

 

This technique is described in the book, "Vipers in the Storm". The author used this technique to "relax" when he was especially tense during a mission.

 

I use a little reverse rudder when making hard turns to keep from losing altitude. e.g., during a hard left turn I'll use a little right rudder. I learned this technique from the book, "Stick and Rudder".

Edited November 15, 2012 by wmilosh
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[PFunk1606688187]

That is a really cool concept. Googling relevant terms mostly don't show me much info on it. Anywhere I can read a comprehensive analysis of the method?

[Harzach]

That is a really cool concept. Googling relevant terms mostly don't show me much info on it. Anywhere I can read a comprehensive analysis of the method?

 

I don't believe it's a method requiring too much analysis, as it is more of a "feel" thing. Basically, you are keeping your controls/control surfaces in a state of constant motion, though the amount of travel involved is slight. I feel that the main benefit of this is to prevent over-correction when making an adjustment on a static control - the little bit of inertia you would have to overcome is not present, so your adjustment is cleaner.

 

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed in some AAR threads, if you care to go fishing. Good luck!