OK, Just for the record, learning to fly...

[Steel Jaw]

Landings, especially in adverse weather, separates the quality (v) pilots from the rest of the dregs...particularily in online flying with other human pilots watching, the preasure to perform is heart fluttering...I know that in the 1st when we RTB we line up after landing in a sort of "vultures row" and watch everyone come in. You had better have your A game on: you could have the best (v) combat mission ever and still fubar your landing and never hear the end of it. Nothing beats online flying with high quality (v) combat pilots!

Edited November 27, 2012 by Mower

[Steel Jaw]

Another thing to remember is when the wheels touch down, don't just let the front wheel drop to the runway. Ease it down to prevent blowing the tire.

 

RL pilots (and good v pilots) hold the nose up after main wheels touch down to aerobrake the jet and save the wheel brakes, also looks cool for the chicks. Hold the nose up and as speed degrades let the nose fall down on its own, applying a little back presure as it drops to ease the nose wheel to the ground.

 

In FBMS if you push the '16 brakes too hard a fire can start.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Mower

[MatzWarhog]

Dude, I´d actually pay money to see that video... :D

 

Didn't have FRAPS running, and didn't think to snap a screenshot. Pity too... from inside the cockpit, the deeper I sank, everything turned red! From the exterior view... my jet was just slowly sinking, tilted to the left!! :D

 

Great thread with some really great info - you guys are giving me hope for my own progression, thanks!

 

Don... I got so tired of the tutorial, and free-flight taking so long, just to get to the point of crashing, it spawned the idea! Now I can take off, make two waypoints, be on approach and crash in 15 minutes or less!!! :megalol:

 

Much better time management this way!! hehehehehe! Hope it benefits you too!!

 

Matz

[MatzWarhog]

RL pilots (and good v pilots) hold the nose up after main wheels touch down to aerobrake the jet and save the wheel brakes, also looks cool for the chicks. Hold the nose up and as speed degrades let the nose fall down on its own, applying a little back presure as it drops to ease the nose wheel to the ground.

 

In FBMS if you push the '16 brakes too hard a fire can start.

 

Now that's great advice!!! Thanks!!

[Skall]

I tend to practice my takeoffs and landings by flying the pattern at Kobuleti. I generally land fairly well though what bothers me is that I can't seem to align myself with the AoA indexer. I get on the glide slope and ride it down pretty well but every time I try to go from / \ to O on the indexer I way overshoot the threshold to the point where I'm touching down on the second half of the runway. But if I try to control my descent rate with my throttle, I crash and burn well before reaching the runway.

 

However, when I disregard the donut and aim for the threshold, which causes me to go below the glide slope in the very few seconds before touchdown, I always get a steady landing with my nose wheel in the air right beyond the threshold. I feel like maybe I'm not finding the throttle sweet-spot to maintain a good rate of descent and keep a nose-high attitude while not stalling.

 

Is 150 knots too hot for landing if on half a tank of gas and some left over ordinance from your sortie?

[Eight Ball]

A good tip when you want to train and have a strong tendancy to crash is to set up a mission on the ME but set your aircraft to client (not player).

 

When you crash, press Lalt+B, click Back and then re-select your aircraft.

You'll respawn at your original position and won't need to reload the whole mission again !

 

Oh and, wasn't areobraking useless/ineffective with the hog ? I remember reading something like that on this forum.

But like Mower said it looks cool for the chicks, you wouldn't want to disappoint them, would you ?

 

Edited November 27, 2012 by Eight Ball

[Cookie]

Now that's great advice!!! Thanks!!

Actually, that´s bad advice. Aerobraking works with certain jets like for example the F-16, but is utterly useless with the A-10. Not only that, it even increases the landing distance. What you wanna do in the A-10 is to get the nose wheel down to the ground as soon as you can (doing it gently of course) and don´t forget to open up the speedbrakes to the full extent (without weight on wheels they won´t open up all the way).

[SafetyTurtle]

Gotta say that landing the hog is a bitch...for me anyway, never seem to be able to line up with the runway, always end up approaching it from either the left or right...my nav skills may need alot of improvement!

[MatzWarhog]

Wow... Turned just a bit negative here real quick. I personality don't find that helpful while learning. The aerobraking provided my best landing so far, and I didn't have to physically change pitch to get the nose down, it settled on its own well before the runway exit. I welcome all advice, and will try each method for the best results... and aerobraking worked well for me. Even the flight manual says to allow speed degradation to let the nose drop... worked well for me. After a few hundred successful landings, my opinion may change, maybe not.

 

SafetyTurtle, just keep working on hitting the sweet spot on approach... it'll get easier.

 

Matz

 

BTW, I'm 48, and took the "impress the chicks" remark as humor... 'nuff said about that.

[Eight Ball]

:confused: Are you talking about my post ???

Did I say something offensive ? What turned negative real quick ?

[FreeFall]

Some opinions of aerobraking in this thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1546988#post1546988

[ttaylor0024]

A few quick tips:

Don't over control

Don't be afraid to go-around

Don't forget to put gear down

Keep sight picture the same the entire way down- keep the same point of runway at the same spot in your windscreen

Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude

 

And, as always, practice, practice, practice! You'll get the hang of it

[MatzWarhog]

:confused: Are you talking about my post ???

Did I say something offensive ? What turned negative real quick ?

 

My reference to negativity began with the posting of a 1000x563 image of a animated human figure, that hardly benefits my landing in any way, shape or form, as it appears it's intent was to mock another "suggestion". It was then followed up by Cookie telling me that Mower's advice here was not only "Not Good" advice, but rather "Bad Advice". Also, I took Mower's reference to "looks cool for the chicks" as a bit of levity, not why one should do what he suggested, but rather because that's what the Flight Manual suggests.

 

Seems some here still want to "hash out" or "Resurrect" an old argument (which appears to have been beaten to DEATH at least twice) here regarding "Speed Brakes" (which are not referred to as, or used as interchangeable terminology with "Aerobrakes") on the A-10C.

 

I posted a topic regarding an aspect of flight that is quite difficult at first, and also one that seems to draw a large amount of interest here from other new pilots as well, and posted my suggestion of how "I'm" practicing Start-Up, Take-Off, Navigation and Landing, all in a simple, self created mission, that also encourages other "Newbies" like myself, to explore the mission editor. Now the thread has digressed to numerous comparisons to F-16's (which I'm not flying at the moment) and old arguments, and criticisms of this Sim's flight model. It would be refreshing to see the thread return to the original topic. :badmood:

 

Now if someone has additional "positive" input on landing for newbies, then lets proceed. I'm finding that the "Speed Brakes" have benefited my landing greatly.

 

Matz

Edited November 28, 2012 by MatzWarhog

[MatzWarhog]

A few quick tips:

Don't over control

Don't be afraid to go-around

Don't forget to put gear down

Keep sight picture the same the entire way down- keep the same point of runway at the same spot in your windscreen

Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude

 

And, as always, practice, practice, practice! You'll get the hang of it

 

Thank you!! Great simple advice which requires much practice to do sub-consciously! Thanks!! :thumbup:

 

Matz

[Sierra99]

Strangely enough I just did the landing training mission, first try I landed next to the runway, without problems though and second time actually landed on the runway and was able to taxi off and get to the "shutting the plane down" part.

And right after that I just had the urge to tell someone (sorry for hijacking your thread btw ^^) that I actually landed the plane without it blowing up.

 

It's been a long time since had such a sense of accomplishment in a computer game!

 

 

Wait till the day you Preflight, Start Engines, Taxi, Takeoff, Attack your targets AND LAND! THATS A GREAT DAY!

 

 

( i hope i get there someday :?) )

[Eight Ball]

My reference to negativity began with the posting of a 1000x563 image of a animated human figure, that hardly benefits my landing in any way, shape or form, as it appears it's intent was to mock another "suggestion".

Woh...You need to chill out a little bit.

 

Yes, DCS is a serious game but it doesn't mean jokes are banned from this forum.

People don't necesserily need to stare at their screens with a straight face, hiding anything that could looks like a smile.

I wasn't mocking Mower suggestion I was just continuing his joke, showing the only "chicks" you could impress in DCS. I'd be really surprised if Mower felt offended by my post.

 

By focusing solely on that you've overlooked my tip to avoid long and boring loading screens...or you've just never learned how to say thank you.

You're welcome anyway...

It was then followed up by Cookie telling me that Mower's advice here was not only "Not Good" advice, but rather "Bad Advice"

Yes, that's called divergence of opinion. A pretty common thing on the internet.

Also, I took Mower's reference to "looks cool for the chicks" as a bit of levity, not why one should do what he suggested, but rather because that's what the Flight Manual suggests.

Do you really think anyone here thought he was serious when he said that ?

It would be refreshing to see the thread return to the original topic.

Don't worry I wont bother anymore... Edited November 28, 2012 by Eight Ball

[dumgrunt]

best advice I have read here RE landing was to keep the TVV on the base of the base of the runway. you do that and configure the aircraft properly and you cant go wrong.

 

PS i thought that chick was hot....

[Cookie]

It was then followed up by Cookie telling me that Mower's advice here was not only "Not Good" advice, but rather "Bad Advice".

Hmm, I can´t really see the significant difference between "not good" and "bad". If there is a difference I apologize. Since english is not my first language (not even my second one, lol) I may have made a mistake without realizing it.

 

In any case I didn´t want to say anything bad about Mower and I hope it didn´t come across like that. He´s a cool guy and I enjoy reading his posts. The aerobraking thing was just something that struck my atttention.

 

Seems some here still want to "hash out" or "Resurrect" an old argument (which appears to have been beaten to DEATH at least twice

Well, I for one can say that I don´t have an argument with anyone on this forum, neither old nor current. Usually I get along with pretty much everyone just fine, even if that person has a different opinion. Sometimes even because that person has a different opinion. :D

 

here regarding "Speed Brakes" (which are not referred to as, or used as interchangeable terminology with "Aerobrakes") on the A-10C.

Just to make sure (because it isn´t clear to me), you do know the difference between "Speed Brakes" and "Aerobraking", right? They are two totally different things. The Dash 1 (the real manual of the real A-10) says to bring the nose down as quickly as possible and use max speed brakes if you want the shortest stopping distance. It also says to not do any aerobraking, as it has little effect on the A-10 and only increases your landing distance.

 

The Dash 1 is actually freely available on the internet, look it up if you´re interested in performance data and more diagrams and tables than you can shake a stick at. The DCS A-10´s numbers come very close to the ones in the Dash 1, it´s quite amazing really.

 

PS i thought that chick was hot....

And I think you need glasses. :music_whistling:

:beer:

Edited November 28, 2012 by Cookie

[PhoenixBvo]

Dash 1: A-10A flight manual in searchable PDF format

 

page 2-21:

AFTER LANDING

Maintain directional control using aileron and rudder

as long as they remain effective, and then transition

to nosewheel steering or differential braking. If

available runway does not require maximum braking,

speed can be reduced by aerodynamic braking or by

extending speed brakes. Following aerodynamic braking,

smoothly lower the nose to the runway prior to

loss of elevator effectiveness. When the nosewheel

touches down, do not attempt to raise it again. Speed

brake effectiveness decreases rapidly with airspeed

reduction. Brake heating is a function of aircraft

configuration, groundspeed when brakes are

applied, gross weight, ambient temperature, and

pressure altitude. Operations within the danger and

caution zones shown on the Wheel Brake Energy

Limits Chart (figure 5-2) should be avoided when

possible. If anti-skid is not used, the pilot must be

alert to tire skidding and release brake pedal

pressure, as necessary.

 

You can't argue with the real manual of the real A-10 Cookie. Just make sure you read it well before claiming it makes certain statements. ;)

[Cookie]

Huh? It states exactly what I said: Don´t use aerobraking if minimum landing distance is of concern to you.

 

Straight out of the Dash 1 (bold by me):

 

For a minimum run landing, the final approach speed (gear and

flaps down and speed brakes 40%) should be reduced by 10

knots from the on-speed AOA indication or computed minimum,

whichever is faster. The airspeed indicator should be used

to fly a minimum run landing since the AOA indexer may indicate

slow "\ /" only, and will not provide sufficient guidance for

a safe approach. Power should be sufficient to maintain the final

approach speed and sink rate until touchdown. Select speed

brakes 100%immediately after touchdown. If maximum performance

braking is required, immediately achieve a three point attitude,

place the throttles to idle, and apply wheel brakes with a

firm continuous force, sufficient to feel anti-skid cycling.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Cookie

[PhoenixBvo]

OK, then tell us where. Maybe the manual contradicts itself...

 

EDIT: Actually that is not a contradiction: my quote says "If available runway does not require maximum braking" you may use aerobraking.

 

But you said:

It also says to not do any aerobraking, as it has little effect on the A-10 and only increases your landing distance.

 

And that statement appears not to be in the manual. On the contrary: it actually recommends it if you have enough runway available.

Edited November 28, 2012 by PhoenixBvo

[Steel Jaw]

This has been around a long time for our F16 in Falcon but may be of use for the Hawg...

 

http://www.185th.co.uk/files/Training/Assessment/F-16_Landing_Tutorial.pdf

 

Basically, it says if you play the AOA bracket you dont have to worry about landing weight//approach speeds.

[EtherealN]

Yes, the page about AOA indexer definitely applies for the A-10C as well. It is the method I use.

[Rusty_M]

I think I remember reading that or something similar. Basically, if you're on the glideslope and on the donut, then you're on speed. Did I get that right? I know I left out several considerations, but I was trying to keep it to the simplest points.

[PFunk1606688187]

RL pilots (and good v pilots) hold the nose up after main wheels touch down to aerobrake the jet and save the wheel brakes, also looks cool for the chicks. Hold the nose up and as speed degrades let the nose fall down on its own, applying a little back presure as it drops to ease the nose wheel to the ground.

 

In FBMS if you push the '16 brakes too hard a fire can start.

I recall reading that in fact aerobraking was non functional in this sim and as such had literally no effect on slowdown. I've also read that the Hawg's rollout is obscenely long compared to real life (like twice as long to roll out braking or otherwise). I've also read that Anti-Skid does not in fact do its job and ironically turning it off leads to better braking distances and yet no adverse effects on gear or tires. Seems Falcon has these details much better modeled.

 

One thing I've found seems to work, on emergency landings anyway, is if your hydraulics are out and you have no brakes or speedbrakes or flaps or whichever side of the system is out (or both) once you're safely below take off speed pulling back hard on the stick generates some drag that slows you down. Could be placebo but I've found that it makes the difference in not overrunning.

 

Also, in emergencies rocking rudders left and right to do a snake pattern can buy you extra runway to kill speed, just be careful you don't tip your plane over.

 

Overall one thing I do whenever I learn a plane in whatever flight sim I fly is I don't just practice landing, I punish my landings. I mean I fly ridiculous loops, I'll come in at 350 KIAS 10 feet over the runway, fly past the threshold for maybe 10 seconds pull hard into a high G loop, at the top of the loop idle my throttles, deploy gear and flaps (because if its High G enough you're already well below 200 KIAS now) full speed brakes, come over the top and just try and come in for a nice landing, do everything to stop and immediately turn around, take off again and do the same thing, or a different thing or whatever.

 

Best way I've found to learn how my plane handles is to deliberately surprise myself. Just fly aerobatically all around an airfield and at random moments say to yourself "I'm going to put it down on the tarmac, intact, in the next 60 seconds". I've learned so much about the limits of the A-10 that way. Just keep pushing that comfort zone. Best thing about sims is that you can practice in ways they'd never let real pilots practice.