F-15C Radar range - What am I doing wrong ?

[Eight Ball]

PLEASE moderators, don't merge this thread too quickly with the Q&A one, I most likely won't get any answer there

Thank you

 

So, this is a simple mission from the ME.

 

There's something I don't understand with the radar, it's probably really simple but obviously I'm missing it.

 

In the pics below, why aren't the L-39 showing up on my radar.

 

 

Finally saw them pop up on my radar at 26Km and was able to have a lock at 24Km.

 

 

Right after that I turned around and this guy showed up on my radar

 

 

The second plane is an Il-76, a lot bigger than the L-39 but the range is 5 times greater !

He's also flying a lot lower than I am, I'm still roughly at 27.000 feet

Why is this happening ? Am I doing something wrong ?

 

Thanks for the help

Edited November 27, 2012 by Eight Ball

[Exorcet]

Your MFD is set to 160 nm and your TD (and hence elevation altitudes) is at 80 nm. Try to bring them closer to where the target actually is.

 

Also use MED pulse repetition frequency for targets heading away from you.

 

EDIT

 

Finally saw them pop up on my radar at 26Km and was able to have a lock at 24Km.

They're flying away, detection range is reduced. The IL was flying toward you, so range is increased.

[seikdel]

They're flying away, detection range is reduced. The IL was flying toward you, so range is increased.

 

Is this because the radar relies on the doppler effect?

[Steel Jaw]

Is this because the radar relies on the doppler effect?

 

Undoubtedly.

[Eight Ball]

Thanks Exorcet ! Must spread some rep before giving it to you again.

Your MFD is set to 160 nm and your TD (and hence elevation altitudes) is at 80 nm. Try to bring them closer to where the target actually is.

I guess this is where I have some understanding issues.

 

Ok, I made these quickly, they aren't scaled, it's just to get the main idea.

 

The way I understand it this is what the radar sees in the first picture (Range 160nm, altitude from 0 to 60k)

 

If I bring the TD down on the VSD, without modifying the range, this is what my radar is going to see :

 

And if I leave the TD where it is but scale the range down, it will looks like this :

 

Is it right ?

I still fail to understand why I can't see them in the first picture.

I always thought that playing with the radar range or azimuth allowed you to get a better refreshing rate with lower value.

Is it just because the target is flying away from me ?

Edited November 27, 2012 by Eight Ball

[roob]

I'm just guessing, since it's been ages since I played FC and Lock On.

 

Looks to me like you're scanning straight and up to 60 000 ft (two circles left side) and the widest area the radar can handle (two circles bottom).

 

Scanning huge amounts of airspace takes time* and reduces the accuracy of the radar.

 

*IIRC there's an indicator moving back and fort on the bottom of the screen indicating the current scan and what exactly (different band or something, I've forgot much about this) it scans for at the moment.

 

Try narrowing (estimating) the distance and altitude to the target and set the radar scan area accordingly.

Edited November 27, 2012 by roob

[Ironhand]

Thanks Exorcet ! Must spread some rep before giving it to you again.

 

I guess this is where I have some understanding issues.

 

Ok, I made these quickly, they aren't scaled, it's just to get the main idea.

 

The way I understand it this is what the radar sees in the first picture (Range 160nm, altitude from 0 to 60k)

 

If I bring the TD down on the VSD, without modifying the range, this is what my radar is going to see :

 

And if I leave the TD where it is but scale the range down, it will looks like this :

 

Is it right ?

I still fail to understand why I can't see them in the first picture.

I always thought that playing with the radar range or azimuth allowed you to get a better refreshing rate with lower value.

Is it just because the target is flying away from me ?

For the 2nd and 3rd images, moving the TD downrange, does not point your radar downward as your drawing suggests. You are simply seeing the readout of the upper and lower altitude coverage you have at that range. You are not slewing your radar in any manner, shape, or form.

 

In the first picture, you are most likely using the "Averaged" PRF setting (which is default) while searching for targets that are heading away from you. The Averaged setting interleaves high and medium PRFs. It's a good general setting for when you don't know if the target is head on or tail on. You will see a tail-on target sooner using only medium PRFs. Likewise, you will spot an approaching target at greater range using only high PRFs. It usually has no bearing on launching but it can have a great effect on your situational awareness.

 

 

Rich

[Exorcet]

As Ironhand said, the TD and range scale don't actually change what the radar sees, but what you, the pilot, take from the radar.

 

I didn't suggest adjusting the TD and range to help the radar pick up the target, but to help you position the radar.

 

Using your graphs, as long as you don't change azimuth or elevation of the antenna, the radar always sees the first image. However when set to max range, it's harder to position the antenna to find something close to you.

 

I suppose that the RCS might have something to do with the detection range as well. I don't know how the L-39's RCS is modeled, but it might be smaller than Eagle/Flanker/MiG size targets.

[104th_Crunch]

Check out this help video as well

http://www.virtual-jabog32.de/index.php?section=downloads&subcat=50&file=398&lang=en

 

and the accompanying documentation has got some great pictures

http://www.virtual-jabog32.de/index.php?section=downloads&subcat=50&file=409&lang=en

Edited November 27, 2012 by Crunch

[Eight Ball]

Big thanks to both of you, can't rep unfortunately.

 

Ok, I think I'm slowly understanding.

 

But it is possible to move the radar in FC3, right ?

That's what correspond to Scan zone Up/down, Left/right in the sensor controls ?

 

PRF = Radar Pulse Repeat Frequency (that's how it's called within the sim) ?

That's indeed something I've overlooked, it wasn't even mapped to my stick.

 

I'll train some more and spend some more time on your vid Rich.

 

Thanks again !

 

EDIT : thanks Crunch, will check that too :)

[Exorcet]

But it is possible to move the radar in FC3, right ?

That's what correspond to Scan zone Up/down, Left/right in the sensor controls ?

Yes, though in the case of the F-15, you can only move left right when in narrow azimuth (30 degree FoV).

[Frostie]

 

 

There's something I don't understand with the radar, it's probably really simple but obviously I'm missing it.

 

In the pics below, why aren't the L-39 showing up on my radar.

 

This is altitude dependent as well, you will find that you can see a lot further with your radar when flying at less than the target. You will probably be getting an extra 10km in the chase aspect at 7000m than you would flying at 9000m.

[Eight Ball]

Yes, though in the case of the F-15, you can only move left right when in narrow azimuth (30 degree FoV).

 

This is altitude dependent as well, you will find that you can see a lot further with your radar when flying at less than the target. You will probably be getting an extra 10km in the chase aspect at 7000m than you would flying at 9000m.

 

Yup, that's probably the few things I understood from the beginning :P