Need Help From Fellow A-10C Pilots

[GAJ52]

I'm having a problem getting my wingman to attack a AAA unit in the first Instant Action mission - currently using 1.2.2.7570.

 

Can I ask one or more fellow A-10C pilots to try this mission please and let me know what his/her wingman does at Waypoint 4 (bridge).

 

Start the Instant Action - East Georgia - Spring mission and take out the two Trucks WP2 and the Patrol WP3, then head over to the Bridge WP4.

 

Set the bridge as SPI and command your wingman to attack the AAA unit guarding the bridge by giving the following radio commands F1 Wingman, F3 Engage with, F4 Engage Air Defences, F1 Missile then F1 Default. He will probably say Copy or Roger, then can you let me know what he does then.

 

Thanks, Glen

[Yurgon]

Can I ask one or more fellow A-10C pilots to try this mission please and let me know what his/her wingman does at Waypoint 4 (bridge).

 

I just flew that mission yesterday (also version 1.2.2.7570). At WP4 I ignored the air defenses, but at WP5 (Tanks) I wanted my wingie to attack them, I gave that exact same command, he copied and then flew circles or whatever. After I'd destroyed the tanks with GBUs, my wingman hadn't attacked a single target, so I finally ordered him to rejoin formation and watch me destroy the final column.

 

tl;dr: Same here.

[GAJ52]

Is there no one else willing to help me out here :(

 

If we can prove there is a significant bug with the AI Wingman not attacking when commanded to, we may be able to get ED to fix it. If its only me saying there is a problem then that's most unlikely and this problem will remain broken.

 

I cannot submit a track as its too far into the mission and the track will be too big, I've tried it before.

[Dusty Rhodes]

Beta Testers? Is this a known issue? If so will we see a solution soon? TIA.

[GAJ52]

Its been like this for the last 4 or 5 updates, so I don't think we will see a solution soon unless more of us confirm its a problem.

 

Because its an Instant Action mission its very easy to replicate, by following my actions above. It will only take a few minutes and you will get the chance to blow a few things up !!

[PhoenixBvo]

Wingman management has had its problems for as long as DCS is around. (And probably before that in lockon as well, can't really remember) The problem is probably more complex than we can imagine. The devs have improved it over time though (in Black Shark before A-10, the wingmen were almost useless as weapon platforms, only as recon/ cannon fodder).

To me it seems to help to really put your SPI on the intended target before calling your wingman in. Most of the time he does the job, although he may take a long time to set up an attack especially in mountainous terrain. When he doesn't attack order him back to the IP (get some distance from the target) before trying again.

 

So yes, I can confirm your problem from my experience. But it has always existed...

[GAJ52]

So yes, I can confirm your problem from my experience. But it has always existed...

 

I agree it has always been there, but is that a reason not to try and get the AI fixed. At the moment ED seems to be fixing cosmetic issues like the sound of the APU etc. If you play MP then the AI issue may not be a problem, but if you play SP then its a massive issue - and no I don't want to play MP.

 

We have a very similar problem with the Ka-50 when attacking Data-link targets the AI will acknowledge a target then refuse to attack it. There may be a common link, I don't know. These guys at ED are obviously very talented people to produce such a great series of sims, so to troubleshoot this very significant SP AI problem should not be that great a challenge, seeing as its supposed to work according to the manual.

[Yurgon]

Flew the other easy instant mission the other day and my Wingie gladly attacked two air defense targets at WP5 (Tank). He was even pretty quick to do so.

 

At the final tank of the final "Column", I was Winchester and again, he attacked the designated target just as instructed. Weird fellow, that one, ignoring orders one day and following them to the point the next day. :doh:

 

We have a very similar problem with the Ka-50 when attacking Data-link targets the AI will acknowledge a target then refuse to attack it. There may be a common link, I don't know. These guys at ED are obviously very talented people to produce such a great series of sims, so to troubleshoot this very significant SP AI problem should not be that great a challenge, seeing as its supposed to work according to the manual.

 

Hard to tell from an outside perspective how easy it would be to fix this problem without introducing a truckload of new bugs and problems.

 

Personally, I think the current problem with A-10C training missions should be prioritized a lot higher because several new pilots have already run into problems during the past two or so weeks.

 

Given that we don't know how the devs prioritize these issues, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[GAJ52]

Flew the other easy instant mission the other day and my Wingie gladly attacked two air defense targets at WP5 (Tank). He was even pretty quick to do so.

 

Hi Yurgon

 

Many thanks for your comments, much appreciated.

 

If you get time would you mind trying the mission in my first post above and see what the wingie does then. The problem may not be AI related at all but a bug within the mission structure.

 

Thanks again :thumbup:

[kobac]

My wingmen inform me about all, but when I tell him to attack ground targets I don't receive confirmation that he understood, neither he executes orders, just continued to follow me, and sometimes bothers me to attack. He does not listen any commands from the navigation or to change formation.

 

I hope ED will solve this problem in next update, and I hope that testers reported about this.

[Evil.Bonsai]

My wingmen inform me about all, but when I tell him to attack ground targets I don't receive confirmation that he understood, neither he executes orders, just continued to follow me, and sometimes bothers me to attack. He does not listen any commands from the navigation or to change formation.

 

I hope ED will solve this problem in next update, and I hope that testers reported about this.

 

Are you issuing commands on the right radio and frequency?

 

With regards to the wingman not 'working', it's not the game, it's the mission. It's done that to me as well in that mission, where wingman ignores commands to attack. However, if you create a short mission with just you and a wingman, and a couple targets, the wingman attacks as commanded.

 

if you really want to play those missions, it probably wouldn't be too difficult to fix them yourselves. Might be as easy as opening and saving them in the mission editor. Or might need to verify triggers and such.

 

EDIT:

 

ok, just tried a couple things. I did open and save the first quick mission (easy - spring) in MY MISSIONS folder (you can't overwrite the default mission). Playing, I get the same no response WHEN: at the bridge, I tell wingman to attack air defenses at my spi, using missiles from DEFAULT direction. This gets my wingman pointing at the target but no missile launch, and then rejoin. I try again, this time telling wingman same thing but from WEST (we were west at the time) direction. This time he launches.

 

So, it might just be using the DEFAULT direction of attack results in no attack. Try flying the mission but specify a direction of attack, and see if that makes a difference for you.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Evil.Bonsai

[Yurgon]

If you get time would you mind trying the mission in my first post above and see what the wingie does then. The problem may not be AI related at all but a bug within the mission structure.

 

I hadn't had the time this week (although I wanted to test this issue). But according to 159th Viper's post, it seems as if the cause has been identified. I hope that means a fix will be on the way soon.

[The_Nephilim]

I just flew this mission altho I did NOT set a SPI for th Shilka and just told the wingman to attack Air Defences and he got the shilka with a mav??

[SharpeXB]

Have you shared your SPI?

I don't think I've had trouble getting wingmen to attack targets in the Georgian Hammer campaign.

[Frogisis]

Yeah, I've had that, too, where if you order a specific attack pattern, he'll set it up but then just seem to get cold feet and veer off at the last minute without firing. It seems to happen regardless of the direction I set.

 

The other issue I've been having, though, is that if you tell him to just go ahead and freely "engage [target type]", lately he just attacks EVERYTHING and uses up all his weapons inside a minute or two. It certainly clears out the battlefield, but it leaves him with just guns should there be new threats that appear later on, or if you yourself wish you still had a Maverick left to nail that one last little stubborn tank and go home.

This used to be my go-to wingman command as opposed to specific targets, since he'd take out all the Xs he could currently see (great for air defenses), then rejoin and be ready for whatever was next, but now it just puts him in Berserker Mode, and he usually wanders off into a SAM zone and then drops all his stores anyway once it shoots at him (Incidentally I'd like to see a command telling him how cautious to be, so that an RWR threat could override an attack, though I suppose "orbit here" could serve the same function if you want to micromanage him).

 

This would only be a minor procedural wrinkle if you could then order him to RTB and rearm, but it seems that for now he's only got what he's got. I dunno if he'll do this if you just land without telling him to RTB independently, and then he just follows you back into the air, but after the time he crashed into me on the runway while landing, I haven't been taking that chance.

 

I understand programming an NPC AI is very difficult since these different bits of scripting logic have unintended emergent consequences, but I think it'd be a good idea to include more "fudge commands" like that in the radio menu for now, to make up for the fact that in real life you could have a little live exchange to sort things out. (P.S. What happened to the "fence in/out" commands?)

[GAJ52]

I just flew this mission altho I did NOT set a SPI for th Shilka and just told the wingman to attack Air Defences and he got the shilka with a mav??

 

The purpose of this bug report is to highlight the problem with Wingmen NOT attacking SPI targets. The method you used does work, but you have no control over what he attacks. Thats why I asked people to try it in a certain sequence to see if it was just my installation or a widespread software bug.

 

I must reiterate at one time the AI did attack the Air Defence Unit when set as SPI, as I have used this mission for training from the early Beta's. Something has been broken during the various updates which is spoiling the SP gameplay. The manual describes in detail how its supposed to work, the sim on the other hand hasn't read the manual :(

[BigfootMSR]

The best thing you could do would be to post a (short as possible) track of the issue. Having people recreate the issue through your instructions rather than seeing it first hand through your track will get mixed results and may not find the root cause.