Missile Dynamics - A discussion

[Reaper-6]

You said it right here:

 

No I didn't.

 

And see, this comment has style ;)

 

I do not seek approval from those I consider victims or prey.

[Kuky]

I do not seek approval from those I consider victims or prey.

 

And there you ruined it again with arrogant comment, I'm done talking to you, have a nice day :music_whistling:

Edited December 28, 2012 by Kuky

[Reaper-6]

And there you ruined it again with arrogant comment, I'm done talking to you, have a nice day :music_whistling:

 

:D

[Teknetinium]

GG, when there is some facts that say that this aircrafts should preform the same, You start to tell us that they might have something we don't know, I tell you the same, there is stuff you and I don't know.

 

It would be better to have aircrafts that can compete to each other instead of political thinking that US stuff should always be better, witch is not the true. Iranian Iraq conflict is example. Pakistan and India, get some info from that clashes.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Teknetinium

[Vortex225]

It would be better to have aircrafts that can compete to each other instead of political thinking that US stuff should always be better, witch is not the true.

 

The irony here is deep. Your objection to this perspective is also political in nature. This doesn't mean your points aren't valid. If the facts support your claims, then they should be evaluated on their own terms.

[danilop]

Global politics and global military affairs are deeply interleaved. At the end, talking about cutting edge military hardware (on both sides) always end in a hot political debate.

 

Nothing wrong with that I guess. :)

[Teknetinium]

I have the balls at least to admit, While some of you find always a argument why Western aircraft are better, And this claims are from thin air since non of you know or would be aloud to talk about it.

 

Mig-31 is no match for F15 as well or what?:)

Edited December 28, 2012 by Teknetinium

[FLANKERATOR]

I'm eager to get my hands on a list of all Su-27 and F-15 variants with respective percentage of the total fighter inventory currently in service.

For instance, how many Su-27SM's are currently in service out of how many Su-27's. Same goes for the F-15 variants. Does anyone have a good link for that? I'm sure that would clear the debate about variants being currently modeled in FC.

[*Rage*]

I have the balls at least to admit, While some of you find always a argument why Western aircraft are better, And this claims are from thin air since non of you know or would be aloud to talk about it.

 

Mig-31 is no match for F15 as well or what?:)

 

 

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Teknetinium again"

[alexej21]

Hello guys,

After I read this endless and piontless topic I have 1 question:

 

Why don't you play MP mission without AIM 120 ?

 

We are playing without AIM 120 and R77 and those battles are very balanced. It depends mostly on pilot skills and that's is perfect..

[Cali]

Hello guys,

After I read this endless and piontless topic I have 1 question:

 

Why don't you play MP mission without AIM 120 ?

 

We are playing without AIM 120 and R77 and those battles are very balanced. It depends mostly on pilot skills and that's is perfect..

 

I'm sure there are missions were those missiles aren't allowed. People like using their full arsenal of weapons. No active missile missions are fun to a point, but people do get bored with them rather quickly. I remember the 51st and 104th both had no active missile missions and people would not fly those when they came up.

[Exorcet]

I'm sure there are missions were those missiles aren't allowed. People like using their full arsenal of weapons. No active missile missions are fun to a point, but people do get bored with them rather quickly. I remember the 51st and 104th both had no active missile missions and people would not fly those when they came up.

I was on the 51 just yesterday. Room was small, but people were joining quickly. At the end we had 15-20 people.

 

Mission changes to 80's mission. Before I even realize it, the room is down to four people, and only two of them are fighters (I am one of the two). Even the A-10's left. It was pretty ridiculous.

[Cali]

I was on the 51 just yesterday. Room was small, but people were joining quickly. At the end we had 15-20 people.

 

Mission changes to 80's mission. Before I even realize it, the room is down to four people, and only two of them are fighters (I am one of the two). Even the A-10's left. It was pretty ridiculous.

 

That happened a lot back in FC2, it was common.

[danilop]

Well, majority of people don't want reality and challenge online, they want chance to win with no effort at all, plain and simple.

 

Basic human behavior really ...

 

There is a potential problem here (yes, even in HC simulation) - developers MUST listen to them, or they will go bankrupt ...

Edited December 28, 2012 by danilop

[Kuky]

Well, majority of people don't want reality and challenge online, they want chance to win with no effort at all, plain and simple.

 

Basic human behavior really ...

 

Its nature's law of taking path of least resistance :D

[wilky510]

I have the balls at least to admit, While some of you find always a argument why Western aircraft are better, And this claims are from thin air since non of you know or would be aloud to talk about it.

 

Mig-31 is no match for F15 as well or what?:)

All you've talked about is how inferior the F-15 is to the Su-27. All you've done this whole thread is complain about how overpowered the AIM-120 and the F-15 is compared to real life.. and some how people are giving you reputation over such opinions....

 

 

You go on about how we would get smashed if the Su-27SM+ was in the game. And people have told you numerous times; that the F-15 is missing way more than it's fair share of upgrades too.

 

I hope they take away the AIM-120C and 'nerf' the AIM-120B, that way, you can go on your 51st server, and shoot down people with your ER's all day, while the F-15s try desperately to get in range to fire their missiles. Is that how you want it? Would you be happy then?

[Teknetinium]

All you've talked about is how inferior the F-15 is to the Su-27. All you've done this whole thread is complain about how overpowered the AIM-120 and the F-15 is compared to real life.. and some how people are giving you reputation over such opinions....

 

 

You go on about how we would get smashed if the Su-27SM+ was in the game. And people have told you numerous times; that the F-15 is missing way more than it's fair share of upgrades too.

 

I hope they take away the AIM-120C and 'nerf' the AIM-120B, that way, you can go on your 51st server, and shoot down people with your ER's all day, while the F-15s try desperately to get in range to fire their missiles. Is that how you want it? Would you be happy then?

 

We in 51st did not do bad in FC2 and Im sure we do not worse in FC3, So Im already happy, Its obvious that if you play as team ERs and ET are enough to give F-15 to think about it, But since aim-120 are even better now then they were in FC2 where F-15 had already huge advantage it becomes ridiculous, where I don't see how some of you can claim that this would bring more realistic feeling to the sim.

 

Plz I have al the right to complain, ER dont have longer legs the aim-120C, they should., ER should be faster as well. Im just pointing out some things that are not realistic in FC3 from the data I have. And yes you should be using B since C was introduced in 2001. you would still do as good only that it would take longer time to get the kills.

 

If you read what Im saying you should understand that Im not looking for some kind of balance, Im looking for a sim that is not exploited because you believe it is realistic not taking in you count other factors.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

The Su-27SM is a mid life update under a limited budget, its not an F-15C counter, and its largely superseeded by other other variants.

 

its relatively easy to shootdown another F-15 Online why would the Sm be any different?

[wilky510]

We in 51st did not do bad in FC2 and Im sure we do not worse in FC3, So Im already happy, Its obvious that if you play as team ERs and ET are enough to give F-15 to think about it, But since aim-120 are even better now then they were in FC2 where F-15 had already huge advantage it becomes ridiculous, where I don't see how some of you can claim that this would bring more realistic feeling to the sim.

Never said you guys did bad. I heard you guys are amazing pilots. But do you really want it that easy? To where you can just shoot ER's well out of reach of the AIM-120's? The F-15 would then have no advantage in any kind of fight.. WVR it's already pretty much a loser compared to the Su-27.

 

Look, i agree man. the ER is slacking on range by a big amount. What i can't agree on with you is this huge advantage right now. my AIM-120's miss all the time, and i don't see them magically guide to the target outside of active range.

[GGTharos]

Actually they are much, much worse. But I know you don't do actual testing, so you didn't notice.

 

But since aim-120 are even better now then they were in FC2

[Pilotasso]

If this discussion is based on current state of missiles ingame then dont, they are being fixed to adress the shortcommings. Most missiles are affected with underpowered motors, excess drag, borked trajectories etc, well talk then. Stay objective.

[Kuky]

Actually they are much, much worse. But I know you don't do actual testing, so you didn't notice.

 

I agree with GG about this, the 120's are worse right now compared to FC2

[Teknetinium]

Actually they are much, much worse. But I know you don't do actual testing, so you didn't notice.

 

 

Yes they are worse, so is ER, I would not have the fact to say witch one was nerfed more. BUT I already explained the difference to FC2 witch I hope will be changed whit new 1.2.3. If not, we will have to do the best of situation.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Teknetinium

[GGTharos]

Like I have mentioned before, the weapon AFM changed a lot of things, this is why missiles are constantly being tuned. Errors are likely, and there is a lot of stuff missing still. AFM is only the first step and even that is difficult to make to work correctly. For now, everything will appear nerfed.

[lunaticfringe]

If you read what Im saying you should understand that Im not looking for some kind of balance, Im looking for a sim that is not exploited because you believe it is realistic not taking in you count other factors.

 

Do you not even remember what was written by your own hand *one page ago*?

 

IMO, woud it not be better then to model two aircrafts that are equal to each other, Or would you not accept to fly older F-15 against new Su-27?

 

Tek, you fail to maintain a cogent argument over the course of two pages. That's not a supposed failure of writing in a foreign language; that's an illegitimate line of argument, in which you knowingly choose to obfuscate your line of challenge in an attempt to maintain some semblance of respectability.

 

"Oh, I want this!"

You're refuted.

"I didn't say I wanted that- I want this!"

You're refuted again.

"You're not following what I'm saying- I actually want for this (the first argument), and if you don't give it to me, you're biased/political/BS!"

Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.

 

Summary: there's no point in conversing/discussing/debating or arguing with you, because you are unwilling to own up to your stated contention from one page to the next; it's like trying to catch water with a rake.

 

Or an opponent in real life with an R-27.