Missile Dynamics - A discussion

[Kenan]

Here are some interesting things to know about various missiles and their limitations!

 

I'm not part of the military to know more about the accuracy of the data found here, but the information doesn't seem too far from real..., have a look:

 

http://www.quebecairforce.com/falcon/escadrilles/canada8/WolfPack/Training/TacRef/Tacticals.pdf

 

The moment I saw MiG-29A and Su-27 having a same radar detection range, I dismissed the document and stopped reading any further..

[blkspade]

Testing with the AI isn't completely bad, but would be better if they had to rely on their sensors more as opposed to being all seeing. I have done and still do a lot of practice against the AI and have noticed the trends. AI skills being equal means they will always do the same things. First is that they'll always fire the first missile Rmax, and won't fire a 2nd until after the first has passed the target. So in the case of F-15C vs the Mig29S, if the Migs are forced to go defensive first all subsequent attempts to reengage will always be from bad position. Also the AI will always disengage and give up their lock when the missile is a certain distance away, even if they fired first. So the majority of kills being WVR is further more valid as the F-15 can continue to press, and each can engage up to 4 targets. The AI also attempts to be at co-altitude prior to having to go defensivein BVR. They do however rely on sensors here at BVR, as testing in DACT repeatedly has proven. If you climb nose hot and/or music off vs a Su27, they climb too. Do the same with ECM on and radar off, they'll still fire Rmax (~31nm) even though they don't have burn through, but they will still be at the original altitude. Most of my kills against the AI in the BVR DACT 27 or 29 are usually WVR as well.

[blkspade]

The moment I saw MiG-29A and Su-27 having a same radar detection range, I dismissed the document and stopped reading any further..

 

That document also lists the F-15 as an AIM54 carrier, LOL.

[Cali]

That document also lists the F-15 as an AIM54 carrier, LOL.

 

This is funny? :D

 

[blkspade]

This is funny? :D

 

 

Its theoretically possible to strap mk82s to an F-15C, but doesn't happen now does it.

[Cali]

Its theoretically possible to strap mk82s to an F-15C, but doesn't happen now does it.

 

Why would you when you the the E-model?

[MoGas]

Here are some interesting things to know about various missiles and their limitations!

 

I'm not part of the military to know more about the accuracy of the data found here, but the information doesn't seem too far from real..., have a look:

 

http://www.quebecairforce.com/falcon/escadrilles/canada8/WolfPack/Training/TacRef/Tacticals.pdf

 

Python 4, IR missile, for the F-14B/C :thumbup:. The Document even has F-14C`s, interresting...:doh:

[Frostie]

The moment I saw MiG-29A and Su-27 having a same radar detection range, I dismissed the document and stopped reading any further..

You actually got that far. The picture of a birdie carrying an Aim-9 did it for me. :D

[Exorcet]

You actually got that far. The picture of a birdie carrying an Aim-9 did it for me. :D

It says the F-22 is good for Mach 3.15, ED should use this pdf exclusively from now on.

 

On a more serious note, while it does say to pull a 8-9 g turn to avoid AMRAAM, it doesn't say that is a garunteed survival method. Whoever was using this a a source misread it. Just look at what it says for the AIM-9X.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Exorcet

[Frostie]

It says the F-22 is good for Mach 3.15, ED should use this pdf exclusively from now on.

 

Now you've got me looking at A-10's doing Mach 1.15, F-117 Mach 1.7 while the Phantom is stuck on 1.6. My Gran is a better source than this.:lol:

[Jona33]

Oh dear god, couple of points (Harrier nut I know,) I'm sure 16 pilots would disagree with the fact that the Harrier isn't dangerous to fighters. The US navy never used the AV-8 as far as I'm aware. The F-117 carries IR missiles? And as far as I'm aware the F-22 doesn't have HMS. (I'm sure I saw something about that.) And does the F-15C really carry the phoenix? You learn something new every day. :D

Edited January 22, 2013 by Jona33

[104th_Maverick]

but the information doesn't seem too far from real..., have a look:

 

http://www.quebecairforce.com/falcon/escadrilles/canada8/WolfPack/Training/TacRef/Tacticals.pdf

 

I'm afraid its pretty far from real sir.... substantially far in fact.

 

Please rest assured that ED is working with data that has a little more weight to it than this document!

[karambiatos]

Oh dear god, couple of points (Harrier nut I know,) I'm sure 16 pilots would disagree with the fact that the Harrier isn't dangerous to fighters. The US navy never used the AV-8 as far as I'm aware. The F-117 carries IR missiles? And as far as I'm aware the F-22 doesn't have HMS. (I'm sure I saw something about that.) And does the F-15C really carry the phoenix? You learn something new every day. :D

f-117 with IR missiles? ace combat 2 much?

[EtherealN]

And does the F-15C really carry the phoenix? You learn something new every day. :D

 

There was some testing going on in that department (they even strapped PACs onto them once, AFAIK), but that's all in the department of "could be made to happen if someone wanted it, but no-one does, so it stalled somewhere in the test stage".

[Cali]

And does the F-15C really carry the phoenix? You learn something new every day. :D

 

Like EtherealN said it was for testing purposes

 

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/research/Phoenix/phoenixmissile.html

[Pilotasso]

Like EtherealN said it was for testing purposes

 

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/research/Phoenix/phoenixmissile.html

 

So was the R-77 on MIG! Me wants Phoenix on eagle NOW!!!! (for the sake of balance) ;)

[Jona33]

Like EtherealN said it was for testing purposes

 

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/research/Phoenix/phoenixmissile.html

 

There was some testing going on in that department (they even strapped PACs onto them once, AFAIK), but that's all in the department of "could be made to happen if someone wanted it, but no-one does, so it stalled somewhere in the test stage".

 

Thanks, you really do learn something every day. :D

[Frostie]

So was the R-77 on MIG! Me wants Phoenix on eagle NOW!!!! (for the sake of balance) ;)

Yes and the R-77 passed fit, there are plenty of MiG's out there capable of firing R-77's, how many F-15 's can fire a Phoenix?

[Teknetinium]

They will put them on when facing MIG-31.

[GGTharos]

Don't need them for MiG-31's.

[Pilotasso]

Yes and the R-77 passed fit, there are plenty of MiG's out there capable of firing R-77's, how many F-15 's can fire a Phoenix?

 

More phoenixes in service than ever were R-77's, however I was just joking :D

 

not very feasible and It would ruin multiplay.

[Pyroflash]

More phoenixes in service than ever were R-77's, however I was just joking :D

 

not very feasible and It would ruin multiplay.

 

Naaaa.. People would just start to complain, however the missiles themselves are still substantially less threatening to fighter aircraft than an AIM-120C5.

 

Now if people started flying around bombers, then yeah, I can see where it would get annoying if you have F-15C's at 45,000' doing 1.5 launching TWS foxes from 150 miles. Though you are going to have the same problem ANYWAYS when F-14A comes out, so you might as well get used to it..

 

Also, the F-22A has HMS. Even the suite 6C Eagles have HMS. In fact, I think pretty much every single fighter in service with the USAF and USN is compatible with either the Scorpion or JHMCS. Most are compatible with both. What you might be referring to, and would be correct in saying, is that the F-22A is not compatible (yet) with the HMDS/HMSS that is in use on the F-35 or EF-2000 respectively.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Pyroflash

[Pilotasso]

given how low the PK the Slammer has ingame, the phoenix wouldnt make no difference on a head on shot but it might make a world of difference in a chase, and a high speed chase is what I see most of the time. People cant turn much then. ;)

[Pyroflash]

given how low the PK the Slammer has ingame, the phoenix wouldnt make no difference on a head on shot but it might make a world of difference in a chase, and a high speed chase is what I see most of the time. People cant turn much then. ;)

 

Depends on how close the target is. If he is at the right distance, he might not have to pull very hard at all in order to defeat the missile simply because it is still in its boost phase and going at ludicrous speed.

 

Then again, if he is running, then he is probably going to get eaten alive by the pressing aircraft if he turns to avoid the missile. Either way, you are right, he is dead. Assuming of course, that is wasn't some sort of devious master plan. :D

[Cali]

Do missiles still miss in a tail chase from 4 miles away?