R-77s and AIM-120s

[Fish6891]

Lo'

 

Three Qs

 

First, when using the R-77 Missile on the MiG, is there any indication as to when the missile's active seeker has kicked in enabling the pilot to break lock, or must it be done by estimation?

 

Secondly, Dodging AIM-120s, any tips? No smoke = I can't see them :[

 

Lastly, I was under the impression that the MiG-29 was able to track/engage 2 targets at a time instead of 1 like the Su27. Am I right here? If so how would I go about doing this?

 

Thanks in advance guys

[Ironhand]

I can help with #2:

 

Assuming you have a general idea of where the missile is generating from and most likely you do from the RWS, place the launch a/c's radar signal 20-30 degrees right or left of your nose. Use the RWS to position it. Watch for the primary threat to switch to the AHR. After the switch, when 120's signal strength reaches 50-60%, bank about 20 degrees toward it without pulling back on the stick and wait.

 

When the signal strength reaches the next to the last bar, smoothly pull back on the stick. This will pull your aircraft into a barrel roll and the missile won't be able to maneuver with you--usually. It'll stay to the outside of your roll and miss.

 

Hopefully this is clear enough. It's easier to demonstrate than describe.

 

As I think about #1, I think that's what the cockpit clock is for. I don't recall seeing an indication. But I haven't spent much time in the MiG's cockpit.

 

Rich

[Gazehound]

Lo'

 

Three Qs

 

First, when using the R-77 Missile on the MiG, is there any indication as to when the missile's active seeker has kicked in enabling the pilot to break lock, or must it be done by estimation?

Nope, no indicator, make note of your launch range, and experience will do the rest (i think it goes active @ 15km)

 

Secondly, Dodging AIM-120s, any tips? No smoke = I can't see them :[

For any active missile, crank out to the side maintaining lock, watch your RWR, when it resets, the missile is active. Wait unitl it is nearly all lit up again and pull up and in toward the bandit, tapping chaff. make sure you do it for long enough.

Lastly, I was under the impression that the MiG-29 was able to track/engage 2 targets at a time instead of 1 like the Su27. Am I right here? If so how would I go about doing this?

neither russian plane can do that. TWS mode can track many targets but not engage like the f15 TWS.

[Fish6891]

Thanks for the info guys, especially on dodging Amraams, they suck now! :biggrin:

[Pilotasso]

Thanks for the info guys, especially on dodging Amraams, they suck now! :biggrin:

 

...not that will stop the eagle for scoring the most kills online...good luck.

 

BTW is there any difference modeled between the 77 and the 120 ingame?

[GGTharos]

Range and smoke, and the R-77 has them both ;)

[Force_Feedback]

Range and smoke, and the R-77 has them both ;)

 

Somebody has weed as well.

 

The R-77 and aim-120 are as stupid as before, I'm expecially annoyed with the first missile fired in BRV, it always starts homing when it has passed the target.

[Pilotasso]

Range and smoke, and the R-77 has them both ;)

 

hmm, the encyclopedia says they have the exact same range...

[GGTharos]

The encyclopaedia lies.

[Pilotasso]

...then could you tell me how much the difference is?

[britgliderpilot]

...then could you tell me how much the difference is?

 

He could tell you . . . . . but then he'd have to kill you.

 

 

Classified, be sure ;)

[S77th-GOYA]

All the talk of needing TAC manuals to model an aircraft becomes kind of moot when you consider that the weapons employed are top secret themselves.

[GGTharos]

I think the R77 as implemented right now has about 20-30% more range than the 120.

[britgliderpilot]

I think the R77 as implemented right now has about 20-30% more range than the 120.

 

But before we get ahead of ourselves, doesn't the MiG radar have less power than the F15 radar so can't necessarily shoot first anyway?

[britgliderpilot]

All the talk of needing TAC manuals to model an aircraft becomes kind of moot when you consider that the weapons employed are top secret themselves.

 

Yeah, but not modelling weapons because you don't know how they work is daft :p

 

 

Not modelling aircraft because you have less info on one than another makes more sense.

[Pilotasso]

But before we get ahead of ourselves, doesn't the MiG radar have less power than the F15 radar so can't necessarily shoot first anyway?

But that gives the R-77 the dege against fleeing targets at low altitude.

[S77th-GOYA]

But that gives the R-77 the dege against fleeing targets at low altitude.

 

Not necessarily. The 120 is supposed to have a better seeker.

[EvilBivol-1]

Not necessarily. The 120 is supposed to have a better seeker.

 

Guys, be clear as to whether you're talking about real life or in-game. GG is saying that IN-GAME, the R-77 has a greater range. Also IN-GAME, their seekers are the same.

[Force_Feedback]

I wish you all the luck in the world finding some reliable info (let's say fas.org/globalsecurity level) on the RVV-AE, even when you understand Russian :(

Oh well, I'm going to type google.ru in my address bar, and surf away in the wonderful world of the Russian web :p I'll keep you all posted on my "findings" on the r-77.

[Force_Feedback]

On a couple of russian sites it is said that the r-77 has a better seeker head design than the AMRAAM, allwing it to lock on smaller targets with greater accuracy.

It can engage targets which are up to 90 degrees off the launchers flightpath.

The flight control surfaces have a very low force on them, something in the vicinity of 1.5 kgf.

The r-77 has a warhead which has both expanding rods as microcumulative fragments, designed for anti missile engagements.

The missile can turn at 150 degrees per second (at low speeds I guess, so either in the beginning, or near the end of the flight profile)

One source (airbase.ru) says the R-77 can engage targets at: 20m to 25km, up to 3600 km/h, up to 10 km relative height, up to 80 km head-on at high altitudes and up to 20km with its own radar.

Also, they do mantion about the missile performance at low altitudes, 25 km head-on and 20km in pursuit. Max target G=12, so the encyclopedia is right on something.

The official MAKS site of "Agat" (they make the seekers), states that: "in a mig 29, the missile can be guided by datalink to up to 80km, the maximum range"

 

The official vympel site (http://www.vympeltor.com/produkt1.htm) states the max range of 80km, and min at 300m. The warhead is as explained above, the maximum tagets g-load however, is 9 on the Vympel site.

 

* стартовая масса - 175 кг (Starting mass)

* длина - 3,6 м (Length)

* диаметр - 0,2 м (Diameter)

* размах крыльев - 0,4 м (Wingspan)

* размах рулей - 0,7 м (control surface span)

* высота поражаемых целей - 0,02-25 км (height of targets)

* перегрузка поражаемых целей - до 9 g (load of targets)

* дальность пуска: максимальная в переднюю полусферу -80 км (max range in forward hemisphere)

минимальная в заднюю полусферу -0,3 км (min. range in rear tagret hemisphere)

* система наведения - инерциальная с радиокоррекцией + активное радиолокационное самонаведение (guidance system: inertial with radiocorrection + active radar guidance)

* тип боевой части - стержневая + мультикумулятивная (type of warhead: expanding rod + multicumulative)

* масса боевой части - 22,5 кг (warhead mass)

*

 

взрывательное усройство - лазерный неконтактный датчик цели

* (Fuse: laser contactless)

 

двигательная установка - однорежимный РДТТ

(engine system: one mode rocket engine)

[TucksonSonny]

But before we get ahead of ourselves, doesn't the MiG radar have less power than the F15 radar so can't necessarily shoot first anyway?

 

But I remember that in RL the su-30 or whatever R-77 capable Su had earlier burn through advantage (thus earlier launch) but I am not sure on this one.

[GGTharos]

On eof the ED members posted a week or two in the Russian forums, essentially stating that 'people in the know' consider the AMRAAM to be a better weapon than the R77. The AMRAAM is equipped with better actuators, a better seeker (I'm sorry, but how does a country that was always 20 years behind in electronics suddenly come up with a 'better seeker' compared to a combat proven, contuously upgraded missile with loads of money thrown at it).

 

There is the R-77M which is definitely better thatn the R-77, but it isn't in production yet.

 

All fingers point to the AMRAAM being the better weapon right now.

[golfsierra2]

But before we get ahead of ourselves, doesn't the MiG radar have less power than the F15 radar so can't necessarily shoot first anyway?

 

Don't know how the MSL and radars are modeled, however co-speed and co-alt of an MiG29S and F15C, and both can shoot at the same range...

 

Tested it often with 1.1 and 1.11. I can't see any difference...

[GGTharos]

But I remember that in RL the su-30 or whatever R-77 capable Su had earlier burn through advantage (thus earlier launch) but I am not sure on this one.

 

No. If you're talking about reality, 'burn through' doesn't exist, at least acording to SK.

 

The 30 would see the eagle a little sooner, but we're talking about well beyond BVR ranges right now - with the eagle capable of picking up a mig-29 sized target at 80nm in a look-down situation, you can imagine that the advantage past a certain range gets eroded.

 

The antenna of the Sue is not that much bigger: The difference simply isn't that big.

[TucksonSonny]

(I'm sorry, but how does a country that was always 20 years behind in electronics suddenly come up with a 'better seeker' compared to a combat proven, contuously upgraded missile with loads of money thrown at it).

 

About the money issue:

Phazotron-NIIR owing to its vast experience in the field, 45 years of scientific research and huge production facilities that allows to make excellent aircraft radars.

To acquire this elegant systems, Russian Phazotron alone spent over $40 million gained from its export contracts. Not bad.