The dark side of MP

[Sov13t]

In his algorithms for kill calculation Case was able to combat this relatively well. Missile hits were recorded with enough information to make a calculated guess that the person exited the aircraft/server because he was shot down. This can be automated by looking at timestamps of events within certain margin.

 

If it is a disconnect while your aircraft is being engaged and it gets hit while you are still in the "time out phase", I feel that it is still fair to count it as a kill.

 

If anomalous activity was detected, a "chat" with the person would follow. Afterwards, gulag.

 

I would assume any competent statistical engine will take this into account in the future as well.

[GGTharos]

There is no need for statistics in this case - the game can record who was targeted by a given missile launch, and if they disconnect while the missile is still guiding on to them (or the bullets are flying, etc) then they get a death and the attacker gets a kill.

 

But probably the devs priorities right now are to make sure that you have a game to play online so that complaints about scoreboards can be made :)

[Maximus_Lazarus]

And what if the network dumps him?

 

Perhaps the lamers are also the ones who have this huge need to see their score updated on the board? It causes them to do funny things like suicide runs because hey, they still get a kill. That's not what air to air is about ;)

 

Hey, it's all about the K/D ratio man :) (isn't it ? )

 

Also, if the network dumps him : tough luck, still a death .

 

How often does this happen nowadays anyway ?

[GGTharos]

Hey, it's all about the K/D ratio man :) (isn't it ? )

 

I suppose it is so for the majority.

 

Also, if the network dumps him : tough luck, still a death .

 

How often does this happen nowadays anyway ?

 

How often do people disconnect isntead of letting a missile hit them vs. being dropped (under any circumstances) ... maybe the ratio is such that your 'tough luck' solution is ok ... maybe it is such that your solution isn't needed and you're one of the few this happens to. Hard to tell.

[Speed]

The plan is to make SlmodStats, which will probably be completed in 2-4 weeks, record a disconnect or change of aircraft, while damaged, as a kill for whoever damaged that aircraft even if they are no longer on the server.

 

This discussion leads me to think I need more than this, though. Unlike a purely events-based stats system, Slmod can access the actual game objects. The idea is that I could make a disconnect or change of aircraft while an air-to-air or surface-to-air missile is pointed in your direction and closing on you, count as a kill to whoever fired the missile, and a death to you.

 

There are some caveats:

- Should it count as a "death" on your record, or should I make it a separate category- "desertion under fire" or something like that?

- I probably should not make it count if it would have been friendly fire. You can easily guide a missile past friendly aircraft in front of you (though.... it's not exactly a safe thing to do, not if it's an AMRAAM or R-77). I don't want to incorrectly blame people for friendly kills, and people trying to escape a team-killer by changing aircraft or disconnecting should not be punished. So, only make this work for opposing aircraft.

 

- This will add a significant amount of additional code work. It's very possible to implement, it's just gonna add an extra layer of complexity- probably about 2-4 hours of programming and testing.

 

How bad is this problem, really? I suppose if people are competing for top dog in stats on a server, the temptation to cheat could be bad enough for this problem to intensify. Maybe this feature is mandatory.

 

Then, of course, there's the question of whether it should count as a death for you and a kill for an opposing player if you disconnect while an enemy aircraft is very close to you. Without this protection, you could cheat the system when you were getting your butt kicked in a BVR or guns fight by disconnecting before anything hit you. But nothing is as simple as it sounds on the surface. You'd have to close the loopholes that would otherwise allow people to farm kills by just like, flying a Ka-50 to an enemy airbase, parking it in a hidden spot, and waiting for people to land and disconnect.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Speed

[Steel Jaw]

Yet another reason to pw protect your server: block the fart knockers.

[Boberro]

And play by yourself, exclusively in two :D

[Steel Jaw]

And play by yourself,

 

Perfectly fine by me: I dont care what anyone says, foreplay is WORK. :P

[Sov13t]

I believe only a successful hit of any missile/projectile that causes damage to your airframe should be considered for any statistical manipulation. The game already does this if the damaged airframe crashes the kill message and the kill goes to the shooter.

 

Hypothetical hits are just that. As GG pointed out what if it is indeed a legitimate disconnect? Sorry, but the guy didn't have a chance to even evade the missile and the missile never hit him anyway.

 

The urge to "cheat" the system is quite high Speed, we have seen guys changing nicknames quite often, we have seen them spam missiles beyond their allotted numbers even when they knew they have exceeded their limits, we have seen people change UCIDs just to "reset" their stats and/or avoid their kicks/bans.

 

My .02

Edited February 6, 2013 by Sov13t

[Boberro]

Sometimes you were hit at high altitude and slowly dropped. It'd be ridiculous to wait few minutes till crash and hit message would come in.

 

So people just take new plane - and sometimes it takes score for your attacker sometimes not.

If not so sorry, brutal life :)

Precisely ED would fix that by the way.

 

ED also could change kill message to the old FC1 one where there was shown attacker plane and victim one. Now you don't know what attacker was, what if USS Enterprise?

 

:D

[Speed]

Looks like lots many of these "killed by building" issues comes from situations such as an aircraft/unit gets hit by a weapon that was fired from a unit that no longer exists at the time of weapon impact.

 

This is fixable if each time a weapon is fired, that weapon's unique identifying number, its runtime ID, is stored in a table along with information on the unit that fired the weapon. Later, if that weapon hits anything, and the original firing unit is dead or otherwise non-existent at the time of weapon impact, we just look up who fired that weapon from the data that was stored about the shooter at weapon launch time.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Speed

[Maximus_Lazarus]

There's always tacview as well right ?

 

I mean you won't get the kill but it will keep any regular flying pilot from pulling plugs cause he'll just look silly .

 

With regular flying pilot i mean a pilot that has been flying and doesn't want to be anonymous, so he won't change his name every round either.

[Speed]

There's always tacview as well right ?

 

I mean you won't get the kill but it will keep any regular flying pilot from pulling plugs cause he'll just look silly .

 

With regular flying pilot i mean a pilot that has been flying and doesn't want to be anonymous, so he won't change his name every round either.

 

Slmod stats tracks you by UCID, and I'm pretty sure any other stats systems would/do, so there is no anonymity unless you manage to change your UCID. There was a bug that made UCIDs change, but c0ff said he fixed it, and that UCIDs should be permanently associated with your DCS account now.

 

So to change your UCID and fly anything other than the Su-25T, you'd have to make a new DCS account and re-purchase modules. Right?

[arteedecco]

Sounds like excellent suggestions @Speed. I'd like to see them implemented soon as well.

 

Also, when your aircraft is lost the system should tally that as a loss. The loss system appears to only be when the pilot dies, though I'm unsure about that TBH. Just seems way to difficult to get a "loss". Is that something being addressed too?

[Speed]

Sounds like excellent suggestions @Speed. I'd like to see them implemented soon as well.

 

Also, when your aircraft is lost the system should tally that as a loss. The loss system appears to only be when the pilot dies, though I'm unsure about that TBH. Just seems way to difficult to get a "loss". Is that something being addressed too?

 

In the default scoring, a loss is supposed to be counted when the aircraft is destroyed. In the stats system I am working on, a loss is counted when the aircraft is destroyed, or the aircraft is damaged and the client flying it leaves the server or switches aircraft (or anything where their aircraft stops existing) without landing and coming to a stop.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Speed

[ENO]

Hey speed- on that note... With a10c we wrestle a stricken bird back to base and wait for repair only to have a right engine not relight. Wondering... If those functions you mention above are things you're working on, does that mean that bug is getting fixed?

[Speed]

Hey speed- on that note... With a10c we wrestle a stricken bird back to base and wait for repair only to have a right engine not relight. Wondering... If those functions you mention above are things you're working on, does that mean that bug is getting fixed?

 

No idea, I had no idea such a bug existed. I can hardly stand flying the A-10 anymore... it's just too easy and slow- by far the most effective tactic for the majority of missions is to just sit up, invincible, at 25k feet and plink tanks and SAMs all day. Yawn.

 

You do remind me though, I need to check up and find out whatever happened to that bug with the Ka-50 (an aircraft that is actually fun to fly and fight in :P) HUD not getting repaired.

[ENO]

I invite you to run the highway in the A-10... where long range, high altitude SAMs shut down the upper atmosphere and you are forced down into the weeds to contend with AAA, running the gauntlet out to the ocean with guns only!

 

Regardless...

 

The "right engine relight failure" has been around for awhile... happens after a repair and NOTHING gets the thing started again. Even motoring the engine and following the proper relight checklist.

 

Anyway- not a big deal... I'm not a points guy anyway- but for those who seem to think it rears the ugly head of MP I suspect some people might want to know.

[squinkys]

The "right engine relight failure" has been around for awhile... happens after a repair and NOTHING gets the thing started again. Even motoring the engine and following the proper relight checklist.

 

The only time I've ever had this problem is if I pull and discharge the fire extinguisher system. Is that what happened?

[KLR Rico]

I'm pretty sure I've seen that issue effecting either engine. Yes, it's usually after the bottle is blown. It's depressing to bring a broken bird home, wait for the repair, but be unable to return to the fight. :(

[GGTharos]

In RL you wouldn't be taking that bird back to the fight anyway. The aircraft should be considered to be out of the fight, especially if we're talking about constraining the number of aircraft etc.

[squinkys]

I'm pretty sure I've seen that issue effecting either engine. Yes, it's usually after the bottle is blown. It's depressing to bring a broken bird home, wait for the repair, but be unable to return to the fight. :(

 

Hahaha, I always assumed this was a feature (as opposed to a bug) as in real life I think if you discharge a bottle the engine is usually toast anyway.

[MTFDarkEagle]

No idea, I had no idea such a bug existed. I can hardly stand flying the A-10 anymore... it's just too easy and slow- by far the most effective tactic for the majority of missions is to just sit up, invincible, at 25k feet and plink tanks and SAMs all day. Yawn.

 

Try flying without the TGP ;) I never fly with a TGP onboard. Then you are forced to fly differently.

 

In RL you wouldn't be taking that bird back to the fight anyway. The aircraft should be considered to be out of the fight, especially if we're talking about constraining the number of aircraft etc.

 

Off course, but we're not talking RL. Even after repair the engine sometimes wont start.

[KLR Rico]

Technically, if I die in RL, I don't respawn either (as far as I know. :) ). As far as the game goes, repair works on everything but the engines, so isn't it fair to say this is a bug and not a feature? My main reason for repairing and returning is that I get to keep my markpoints.

[ENO]

The only time I've ever had this problem is if I pull and discharge the fire extinguisher system. Is that what happened?

 

I can't remember each occasion but generally it's either significantly damaged or yes probably with the ext activated at some point.

 

It doesn't just happen to me- I hear about it happening "frequently" (generally I hear someone mention it at least once a night).