So SimCity. Who's getting it

[upupandaway]

He may have helped place EA in a more convenient position than some competitors, establishing Origin and changing the company´s policy in favor of digital sales. Still, if their policies are representative of what´s on the horizon in the gaming industry in general, it really doesn´t make me like him more (or at all for that matter). It´s a business alright, but where´s the love for the games?!

The MiG-21Bis, Chivalry, Star citizen etc. are just examples of a possible aternative and much brighter future.

[EtherealN]

Quite frankly...

 

...I note you didn't respond at all to me.

 

I responded to your statement, showing the error of it.

You responded to... what? You have points in there, but I can't see where you actually countered my objection? Please indicate it. :)

[EtherealN]

Now, Ali Fish, do you have a copy of the game? No?`

 

Oh. So you're not discussing the game itself, but rather using this thread as your venue towards an ideological rant against EA? Right. I don't know why you are this masochistic, but fine.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en

1.7.

This forum is not a venue for your ideological rants. You can return to this thread once you actually play the game.

 

Otherwise we'll speak later in a different setting.

Now, is it okey with you if people who do enjoy the game actually discuss it rather than read rants from someone whose only interest in the game is to be a reason to rage? :) Thanks! :D

[EtherealN]

So it wasnt a for-profit company back then? :)

I can tell you, because I had dealings with them back then too (as a reviewer): it was!

 

Want to know what happened between these times?

Gaming became mainstream.

Meaning: the market is no longer just nerds. The market is everyone.

[EtherealN]

On the note of their "apology" for the problems, based on a mail I just received:

 

Anyone that has registered their copy earlier than the 25th of march is eligible for:

 

Your choice of any of the following:

Battlefield 3

Bejeweled 3

Dead Space 3

Mass Effect 3

MOHW

NFS Most Wanted

Plants vs Zombies

SimCity 4 Deluxe

 

Open until March 30th.

 

(Yes, having SC4 Deluxe in there is funny as hell, I know. :) )

[Hubris]

So it wasnt a for-profit company back then? :)

I can tell you, because I had dealings with them back then too (as a reviewer): it was!

 

Want to know what happened between these times?

Gaming became mainstream.

Meaning: the market is no longer just nerds. The market is everyone.

 

It was a publicly traded company back then also. I'm sure there has been plenty of upper management, board of director, shareholder changes

(for better or worse, worse imo) which have influenced EA a lot since the Janes games.

 

I agree with you that gaming becoming mainstream has changed the industry, and also the overall global competitiveness, opportunities, threats, economic downturns in 2001, 2007-2008, competition against consoles, and shareholders desiring greater returns have made all publicly traded gaming companies (not just EA) more focused on revenue instead of games like the olden days.

 

That's why I love ED games so much, because they are private and they can keep all their decisions in house instead of appeasing shareholders. IMO I don't like the mainstream approach or the way big gaming companies are headed, all I can do is vote by not buying any of their games and purchasing their stock...but then again, it's just my opinion. :)

[EtherealN]

ED has shareholders too, you know. ;)

[Hubris]

ED has shareholders too, you know. ;)

 

Private shareholders :)

 

Whose shares cannot be bought externally or publicly.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Hubris

[upupandaway]

...I note you didn't respond at all to me.

 

I responded to your statement, showing the error of it.

You responded to... what? You have points in there, but I can't see where you actually countered my objection? Please indicate it. :)

 

Well, I did after all. Your post mentioned the issue of a "miscalculation". Me writing about the experience EA should have handling a launch of this magnitude is the response - hence the impression of constantly being lied to. It must have been one hell of a stupid miscalculation...

In addition you mentioned that free games as compensation constitute a "fair" solution in this situation. I responded to that with my own contrasting opinion: they should extend the option for a refund to the digital copies (pre-purchase), which is of course never going to happen...

It may read a little different, but that is just because I may have been a little furious while writing the post.

 

Could you please point what constitutes the factual "error" in my statement? As I see it, it´s merely a matter of individual assessments of the current situation.

Cheers.

Edited March 19, 2013 by upupandaway

[Ali Fish]

Well....Now EtherealN, The people willing to bargain with this debacle are decreasing by the day. enough has been done and you`re correct, i have no need to discuss the reality behind it all here.

 

Now, Ali Fish, do you have a copy of the game? No?`

 

Oh. So you're not discussing the game itself, but rather using this thread as your venue towards an ideological rant against EA? Right. I don't know why you are this masochistic, but fine.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en

1.7.

This forum is not a venue for your ideological rants. You can return to this thread once you actually play the game.

 

Otherwise we'll speak later in a different setting.

Now, is it okey with you if people who do enjoy the game actually discuss it rather than read rants from someone whose only interest in the game is to be a reason to rage? :) Thanks! :D

[agrasyuk]

Open until March 30th.

 

(Yes, having SC4 Deluxe in there is funny as hell, I know. :) )

 

i wouldn't call it funny. this is another indication of the total disconnect.

 

 

 

and as for game offering , hmmm... which one to choose... :megalol:

[EtherealN]

Could you please point what constitutes the factual "error" in my statement? As I see it, it´s merely a matter of individual assessments of the current situation.

Cheers.

 

Your statement:

 

"All their communication to the outside world is nothing but a smokescreen and cheap excuses trying to obscure the fact that they simply were too cheap to afford more servers."

 

Made days after they said that they made a very stupid miscalculation regarding hardware requirements on their end and would fix this as quickly as they can, apologising profusely for the mistake and promising that restitution be made through giving us free games.

 

But saying "we effed up big time" is a "smokescreen" and a "cheap excuse"? Huh?

 

;)

 

Yor idea of a "cheap" excuse then is to offer a couple million people a triple-A game free of charge? Let's see, looks like quite a few million dollars to me. And it's even open to people that haven't purchased the game yet! Remember, March 25th. ;)

Edited March 19, 2013 by EtherealN

[EtherealN]

i wouldn't call it funny. this is another indication of the total disconnect.

 

 

 

and as for game offering , hmmm... which one to choose... :megalol:

 

Well, I'll take them on their word there: games were chosen from their best sellers. And given the SimCity story... I can imagine SC4 selling pretty well right now. :D

[upupandaway]

They are a big, evil company - so it must be... :D

 

But seriously, 4 servers on day 1 - everything is clogged after 15 min.

Then, days later they go up to 15-20 servers and the game still barely runs. And this was after the US-warmup. I understand they can´t possibly have any interest in actually being this "cheap" about their server capacities, but how can they go so wrong? Some actual details on this is what interests me, not some Maxis officials asking people/me to stay friends [sic!]. Friends?! There is still something else:

 

They also said the game can´t be run offline due to substantial calculations being performed on the servers. After what I read today, this seems to be another "miscalculation" because all that prevents the game from running after disconnecting from the servers appears to be an automatic timer in the code. That´s just one thing. The permanent connection is not just a mechanism forced upon the game for purposes of copy protection? That´s what they said... When I use words like "smokescreen", I mean stuff like this.

Harsh words, but as I said, I was infuriated.

As to the compensation - I don´t actually expect them to offer me Crysis 3 because as you say it would certainly mess up their balance of accounts, but for me individually none of titles offered are of interest, so this just adds to my personal epxerience of Sim City frustration. Giving away expensive titles might have helped them save some taxes in the future though...

All the time I got to play Sim City during the first week was a waste because without one exception all my saves were lost. I don´t even want to play it anymore.

Consider this for a change and don´t pick on me because I payed premium money for a game and got pissed off by this mess.

Edited March 19, 2013 by upupandaway

[Ali Fish]

i just want to see the gaming industry in the correct arms of the worthy artists there are that do this. It is no ideological rant on my part sir.

 

Where would ED be today with the corporate monster Ubisoft ? silent hunter anyone? cliffs of dover? hypothetically speaking maybe thats why we need backlash against what EA are trying to pull on the tried and tested franchise we know and love. simcity is one of them in my eyes. an important simulation game. a very ruined franchise. ..... wow MSFS springs to mind too....

 

let me pose a hypothetical plot line for another gaming entity we hold dear to our passions.

 

im sure theres a hypothetical plot in there for a parallel vision of EA buying ED and just what exactly happens to the DCS title. get what i mean ? im sure you might even have your arms up in the air at that possibility ! no hardcore flighht sims anymore ? toned down for the mainstream etc etc.... that would be as ugly as this simcity debacle is mostly. That is why i see this as being so dangerous. I might loose another passion.

 

I think the only argument to really be had about all this is that EA should not have applied these new methods on this old very much loved series. Simcity 4 is selling once again. why?, it should be obvious. possibly people didnt want what they were actually delivered ? Granted, it is their own fault then ? and if so why is this happening ? Dangerous territory. i mean lets look at pop music, and the hollywood film industry in terms of artistic merit ripped from the soul of the artfull in the name of more and bigger bucks. its the same thing. Gaming is not somthing i want to see commercialised beyond artistic merit and i am very very passionate about that. after all i exist here at the hardcore level of simulation. lets not let it become anything else as it easily could by already proven examples.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Ali Fish

[EtherealN]

Could you please point what constitutes the factual "error" in my statement? As I see it, it´s merely a matter of individual assessments of the current situation.

Cheers.

 

Your statement:

 

"All their communication to the outside world is nothing but a smokescreen and cheap excuses trying to obscure the fact that they simply were too cheap to afford more servers."

 

This after they issued their statement on the matter where they very frankly said that they made a very stupid miscalculation on the infrastructure requirements.

 

Are you saying that this is the "smokescreen" trying to hide that they were "too cheap"? The "smokescreen" that says "we messed up so bad we're giving you a free game"? Does that make sense to you?

 

Then give me facts to support this opinion. Without these facts (and note: facts, not opinion), it looks to me like they were, prior to your statement, ver frank and apologetic about it and made it known that they would compensate customers with a free game.

 

Regarding refunds, I suspect it is technical issue where it is impossible to distinguish a "problem" from someone that just impulse-bought and got caught by their mom. If it's like Steam, there is no way for them to differentiate between "purchase" and "use" of the product: they occur simultaneously.

[EtherealN]

Then, days later they go up to 15-20 servers and the game still barely runs.

 

Runs just fine. :)

 

Some actual details on this is what interests me, not some Maxis officials asking people/me to stay friends [sic!]. Friends?! There is still something else:

 

Nerd country. Seriously. :)

You want them to issue a statement with infrstructure details? To common people? You realize that 95% of their customer base don't know the difference between a "PC" and "Windows", right? ;)

 

As to the compensation - I don´t actually expect them to offer me Crysis 3 because as you say it would certainly mess up their balance of accounts,

 

Well of course not. Crysis 3 isn't their game.

BF3 and ME3 are however some of their flagship sellers. This is a legal matter, and the fact that they offer those shows quite well that they're very VERY apologetic for the issue.

 

Crysis just isnt' something they can offer, because it's not theirs, but they DID offer the best they've got! (Measured by market reach, at least.)

 

Giving away expensive titles might have helped them save some taxes in the future though...

 

Ah... So furst you complain about them being unfriendly, then when they are friendly, you invent a further ulterior motive? Hey, could be. But let's look at actual evidence here. They messed up, they offered their best to say "sorry, mea culpa", but your opinion is that they don't consider themselves to be at failt (weird mea culpa there) but you also need some tin foil. Seriously now. :)

 

All the time I got to play Sim City during the first week was a waste because without one exception all my saves were lost. I don´t even want to play it anymore.

 

First week I got 40 hours in. Some hiccups, though they were mostly linked to delays in inter-region benefits. Had one occurance where my progress was not saved (caused by a CTD). This is a crime against humanity that I got over in the 15 minutes it took me to re-do it.

 

Consider this for a change and don´t pick on me because I payed premium money for a game and got pissed off by this mess.

 

Not picking on you. I'm calling you on your specific words.

I was annoyed at the server issues too. But that doesn't make it okey to present falsehoods as truth. ;)

[EtherealN]

Ali Fish, very very seriosly now:

 

This thread is about SimCity.

You have it? No? Why are you here?

 

You have already spent more time posting about your ideological position about online DRM in this than I spent earning the money to purchase SimCity. So drop it. Leave it to the people that have an interest in the game itself rather than your politics.

 

Final.

[cichlidfan]

and as for game offering , hmmm... which one to choose... :megalol:

 

Aw come on, you don't want to get involved in competitive Bejeweled? ;)

[upupandaway]

I think this has been covered sufficiently in my last post. Some facts there. Or is it now you who supposedly ignores what the other one said? ;)

Not just that, but also the inconsistencies in the game mechanics (simulation of agents)...

You are really getting a little hung up on that specific point when I have already given you two other examples. Anyway, I really don´t want to drag this any further. I posted here to share my impressions and yes, they are (in part) subjective and emotional. I can see your point, but overall this detail doesn´t really change my opinion in this matter. The essential question is if you think that the criticizm they receive is generally justified or just another reflex of vilifying software companies for even the smallest lapse.

 

Concerning refunds - I agree. Never expected that to happen, but I consider the request understandable and justified.

[upupandaway]

Runs just fine. :)

 

Now it does. For days after launch it did not. But again this is an experience affected by many factors. I know I should have recorded it, but well...

 

Well of course not. Crysis 3 isn't their game.

BF3 and ME3 are however some of their flagship sellers. This is a legal matter, and the fact that they offer those shows quite well that they're very VERY apologetic for the issue.

 

Crysis just isnt' something they can offer, because it's not theirs, but they DID offer the best they've got! (Measured by market reach, at least.)

 

Didn´t consider that, but I stated it is bad luck for me since I dont give much about any of these titles or I already own them.

 

 

Ah... So furst you complain about them being unfriendly, then when they are friendly, you invent a further ulterior motive? Hey, could be. But let's look at actual evidence here. They messed up, they offered their best to say "sorry, mea culpa", but your opinion is that they don't consider themselves to be at failt (weird mea culpa there) but you also need some tin foil. Seriously now. :)

 

 

Now it´s getting interesting. I never said I think they weren´t openly admitting repsonsability for the desaster at hand. I pointed out however that my discontent is with their information policy and I have given at least two good examples for these discrepancies. Subjective and infuriated - maybe, tin foil - never!

 

First week I got 40 hours in. Some hiccups, though they were mostly linked to delays in inter-region benefits. Had one occurance where my progress was not saved (caused by a CTD). This is a crime against humanity that I got over in the 15 minutes it took me to re-do it.

 

Lucky, I guess. I lost more than just 15 min of progress. There were several cities which had already grown to fill the map. The regions and city names were still there on the server, but they had reset to zero. Plus the saves are only available on one specific server which later could not be logged on to for most of the time. When I finally could those were also reset because the server had crashed before.

 

I really need to go to sleep now...

[pacotito]

I would recommend ME3. The ME series is one of the few games I felt I got my money for. Just make sure you pickup 1+2 while youre at it. Back on topic...at least they have done something about the situation. They could have pulled a ubi and ignored the problem. Or blame it on your PC. Maybe issue patch after patch that breaks more than it fixes while telling you to email support with bugs(who then blames it on your PC). Instead they saw a problem and came up with a reasonable solution. Probably not reasonable in everyones eyes.

Edited March 19, 2013 by pacotito

[MadTommy]

Would this game be recommended to someone who has never played a Simcity game and does not have tons of time?

 

May sound a silly question.. but it looks tempting to me and i'm not sure why. i'm not burdened with the history of the franchise being ruined by EA, i don't mind the online requirement, but i am worried it is only suitable for people with tons of time to play it. Will my town just get overrun by neighbours who play for hours on end?

 

Cheers.

 

edit: just looked at the reviews on Amazon.. ouch.. every review on the 1st page gives it 1 star..not so tempting now.

Edited March 20, 2013 by MadTommy

[cichlidfan]

Have a look at the reviews on Amazon's US site.

 

[MadTommy]

Maybe having it only online without the required server capacity was not the best marketing move!

 

The thought of all those players with their knickers in a twist does make me chuckle though!

 

Hopefully its be in bargain bucket soon and i'll try it then!