lack of multiplayer dog fight

[cheap charlie]

Maybe its just my timing but whenever I log onto multiplayer there is rarely a dogfight session going on. I have joined 1 or 2 over the months that were a real blast but thats about it.

Is there a regular session on multi player that Im missing?

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

well, if i would have a real server, i would host my mission 24/7, but unfortunately i have only one rig.whenever i fly the stang, i usually host my mission.

the problem....most of the time im alone in there waiting for other clients to join.

so you are definitely welcome any time...everybody is...

but i as well just like you feel the need for a 24/7 p51 dogfight server...

maybe we could somehow form a group of p51 pilots who are really interested in this and work something out together....

[MACADEMIC]

Hi guys, I'm all for it, really looking forward to practice Air Combat Maneuvering in the Stang, would already be happy with some mock dogfights without shooting.

 

MAC

[Pman]

I think there maybe some interest in a server, for me personally I dont find it much fun stang on stang. Once the Fw190 arrives maybe but for now its too mundane for me

 

Just be aware that the upload for a dedicated server is quite high so bear that in mind if you decide to try a dedicated machine

 

Pman

[Digital Aura]

I think there maybe some interest in a server, for me personally I dont find it much fun stang on stang. Once the Fw190 arrives maybe but for now its too mundane for me

 

Just be aware that the upload for a dedicated server is quite high so bear that in mind if you decide to try a dedicated machine

 

Pman

 

You must not like stock car racing either then... :smartass:

I know I'd be one of the first shot down, but I have no other way to really improve because the A.I. enemies are just way to perfect for me. I'd be looking for a human multiplayer dogfight server as well.

[Pman]

You must not like stock car racing either then... :smartass:

I know I'd be one of the first shot down, but I have no other way to really improve because the A.I. enemies are just way to perfect for me. I'd be looking for a human multiplayer dogfight server as well.

 

Nah not really, Stock car racing isnt my thing.

 

Some would say that it shows a pilots real skill as the machine is the same, I still think its very bland though. Skill or not

 

Pman

[Merlin-27]

I am all for this. There is a definite need for a few decent dedicated P-51 MP servers. Maybe both a US and Europe server to accommodate timezones. I've been surprised to find most P-51 dogfight servers, when you actually find one, are outside the US. I fear we may lose a lot of potential pilots due to this deficiency. We all know we can throw up our own servers here and there but it is far from ideal. I find it hard to believe the cost of hosting a few machines wouldn't offset the potential loss of revenue or interest in the product. I have wrestled with the idea of building up a dedicated machine for this but I'm not so crazy about funding the effort 100%.

[Pman]

I am all for this. There is a definite need for a few decent dedicated P-51 MP servers. Maybe both a US and Europe server to accommodate timezones. I've been surprised to find most P-51 dogfight servers, when you actually find one, are outside the US. I fear we may lose a lot of potential pilots due to this deficiency. We all know we can throw up our own servers here and there but it is far from ideal. I find it hard to believe the cost of hosting a few machines wouldn't offset the potential loss of revenue or interest in the product. I have wrestled with the idea of building up a dedicated machine for this but I'm not so crazy about funding the effort 100%.

 

I can only comment on the Virtual Aerobatics server but hosting it at home costs bundles with a high speed throttleless connection.

 

Hosting it in a decent dedicated rack is even more expensive.

 

Its not a cheap option to host a dedicated server capable of hosting more then 4-5 players

 

Pman

[Echo38]

Some would say that it shows a pilots real skill as the machine is the same

 

One would think so, but what I've found over my years of competitive duelling is that same-aircraft matchups actually reduce the pilot skill factor. There's less skill involved in same-aircraft duelling because an entire element of pilot skill has been removed: the element of understanding your aircraft's strengths & weaknesses relative to the enemy's aircraft, and attempting to use your ship's strengths against the other guy's ship's weaknesses, and attempting to prevent him from using his strengths against your weaknesses. All of this is missing in a same-ship duel, so a large portion of the fighter pilot skill is missing. I still enjoy a good P-51 versus P-51 dogfight any time, but it isn't nearly as interesting and dynamic as a good matchup between two aircraft which are different from each other, but both very capable of winning.

 

The thing that shows off a pair of pilots' skill more than anything is when they duel in differing aircraft and then trade. If two guys go P-38 vs. Me 109, and win & lose approximately equal numbers of times, and then they trade ships and have roughly the same results, then it's a fair bet that both the pilots and the aircraft could be considered approximately equal. "Different, but equal."

 

This sort of duelling is also absolutely requisite for determining which fighters are more capable than others; I've seen many a virtual fighter pilot complaining about how a given aircraft is sooo much more powerful than his, and how his aircraft doesn't stand a chance against it--but he'd never flown the opponent aircraft in question, so he has no way of really knowing whether it is his aircraft which is causing him to lose, or his lack of skill. If you are familiar with both ships, however, then you have a better understanding of how much the aircraft is to blame, and how much the pilot. Some aircraft really are better than others, but in many cases, I've seen the pilot in the better ship lose because of insufficient skill, and then blame the aircraft because he'd never flown the enemy's fighter, and so didn't know that the enemy's fighter was actually worse.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Echo38

[MACADEMIC]

I am all for this. There is a definite need for a few decent dedicated P-51 MP servers. Maybe both a US and Europe server to accommodate timezones. I've been surprised to find most P-51 dogfight servers, when you actually find one, are outside the US. I fear we may lose a lot of potential pilots due to this deficiency. We all know we can throw up our own servers here and there but it is far from ideal. I find it hard to believe the cost of hosting a few machines wouldn't offset the potential loss of revenue or interest in the product. I have wrestled with the idea of building up a dedicated machine for this but I'm not so crazy about funding the effort 100%.

 

I don't think anyone expects a single person to fund the effort 100%. A good start would be if there would be someone motivated and skilled enough to set this up, and beforehand would budget the costs. If enough people can be found who wish to support this idea by making contributions ('memberships' or the like), and funding is assured that way, the project can be realized.

 

Unfortunately I am not such a person, my traveling lifestyle doesn't allow me to set this up, but I'd certainly consider contributing.

 

MAC

[Merlin-27]

I don't think anyone expects a single person to fund the effort 100%. A good start would be if there would be someone motivated and skilled enough to set this up, and beforehand would budget the costs. If enough people can be found who wish to support this idea by making contributions ('memberships' or the like), and funding is assured that way, the project can be realized.

 

Unfortunately I am not such a person, my traveling lifestyle doesn't allow me to set this up, but I'd certainly consider contributing.

 

MAC

 

Since writing that I've been doing some ground work to find out the specifics on bandwidth requirements and hardware cost vs. commercially hosted solutions out there. I will share what I find.

[MACADEMIC]

Great, looking forward!

 

By the way, I remember there was a P-51 dogfight server a while ago, you were required to install the blue and red team skins. Don't know who ran it and what happened with it though.

 

MAC

[Yo-Yo]

Great, looking forward!

 

By the way, I remember there was a P-51 dogfight server a while ago, you were required to install the blue and red team skins. Don't know who ran it and what happened with it though.

 

MAC

 

I suggest it's maler's project. If red and blue special skins are painted.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

yes it is maler's "server" MAC is talking about,..but that seems as well only a random "pc" which hosts a mission from time to time, just like i do...not really a solution.

i would as well contribute a amount of $ to make a project like this reality...

 

 

on the other hand, i dont quite understand, why for example the aerobatics server(dont really know if its a real server or only a pc running from time to time) which is online most of the time when im joining mp, doesnt include a area in its missions, where p51 can dogfight each other...

[MACADEMIC]

I can understand why the virtual aerobatics team doesn't want weapons on their server, once they allow them chances are high it will be abused and ruin the experience for those whose primary interest is in aerobatics.

 

But, if we kindly ask, perhaps they'd be willing to arrange an airport/designated area for P-51 pilots to do mock dogfighting?

 

MAC

[ARM505]

Make it on the other side of the map, so any griefing idiots would have to do a long distance ferry first.

[Weta43]

You could set up some slots /zones/ triggers so aerobatics slots are at one airport, dogfighters at 2 others, and a large 'arena' around those two where if you take a dogfight slot, and leave the 'arena', you're removed.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

what ive seen in the mission editor, it should be possible to just make the weapons useless if youre outside of a designated area...meaning they are suddenly damaged and not working anymore...

so you wouldnt have to be removed, but only your guns would stop working if you are a lunatic and try to hunt some unarmed planes who prefer to do some aerobatics.

[Pman]

yes it is maler's "server" MAC is talking about,..but that seems as well only a random "pc" which hosts a mission from time to time, just like i do...not really a solution.

i would as well contribute a amount of $ to make a project like this reality...

 

 

on the other hand, i dont quite understand, why for example the aerobatics server(dont really know if its a real server or only a pc running from time to time) which is online most of the time when im joining mp, doesnt include a area in its missions, where p51 can dogfight each other...

 

I can understand why the virtual aerobatics team doesn't want weapons on their server, once they allow them chances are high it will be abused and ruin the experience for those whose primary interest is in aerobatics.

 

But, if we kindly ask, perhaps they'd be willing to arrange an airport/designated area for P-51 pilots to do mock dogfighting?

 

MAC

 

Make it on the other side of the map, so any griefing idiots would have to do a long distance ferry first.

 

what ive seen in the mission editor, it should be possible to just make the weapons useless if youre outside of a designated area...meaning they are suddenly damaged and not working anymore...

so you wouldnt have to be removed, but only your guns would stop working if you are a lunatic and try to hunt some unarmed planes who prefer to do some aerobatics.

 

Hi Guys,

 

I have been asked this many times with regard to including weapons on our server. Let me claify a few things.

 

Our server is a true dedicated hosted in a data centre and as best we can its up 24/7, total downtime in the past 3 months aside from maintenance is around 1%

 

We do not allow weapons of any kind on the server and people frequently get banned for testing us on that policy. It is a strict zero tolerance on it. This will not change.

 

I gave the OP an idea of the costs involved to get at least the hardware in place to try it at home, but being brutally honest there is no way to host a combat server at home with less then a 50mb upload or 4mb per second true speed. Any less then that and you are confined to a small server, which I believe defeats the objective of it.

 

Combat is not one of our objectives at Virtual Aerobatics so we will not including any zones or areas for combat on our missions/server.

 

I am sorry that you guys do not have a place to go and do what you do, but we will not help in this as it will be too disruptive to our pilots and to be quite frank I have no interest in combat in the P51.

 

I've given the OP what he needs info wise if he wants to foot the bill for a server, he will need to edit a fair bit to get it working well but it is do-able.

 

Good Luck and I hope you find a solution

 

Pman

 

Virtual Aerobatics Server Owner.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Pman

[blkspade]

Two things that have prevented me from buying P-51, is the lack of both multiplayer and dissimilar combat. The AI FW190 is the first step in the right direction. Dog fighting AI gets old fast. Now I am interested in the mustang to an extent and will probably buy it either next time it goes on sale, or when DCS: FW190 is released, which ever comes first. For the time being I get the occasional practice in the IL2 variant.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Try fighting against an F-15 in the Mustang...

[Merlin-27]

Try fighting against an F-15 in the Mustang...

 

There is some satisfaction in taking out an enemy A-10 with the stang. One of my fav MP experiences so far. :)

[Echo38]

There is some satisfaction in taking out an enemy A-10 with the stang.

 

There shouldn't be; the P-51 is, by far, the better dogfighter. The A-10 doesn't stand a chance, unless the P-51 pilot is green. When I was designing my duel mission, I had to give the A-10C 20% fuel and the P-51 100% fuel in order for the A-10C to have a decent chance. Even when the considerably less-experienced pilots were flying the P-51 and the more experienced ones flying the A-10, the P-51 would win every time.

[Merlin-27]

There shouldn't be; the P-51 is, by far, the better dogfighter. The A-10 doesn't stand a chance, unless the P-51 pilot is green. When I was designing my duel mission, I had to give the A-10C 20% fuel and the P-51 100% fuel in order for the A-10C to have a decent chance. Even when the considerably less-experienced pilots were flying the P-51 and the more experienced ones flying the A-10, the P-51 would win every time.

 

haha Well I'm sorry we disagree, Bud. The satisfaction is still there. :lol:

[Pman]

What you may find is that with the release of Fw190 (next year I would bet) there is more likely to be the will for someone to pay for a dedicated server

 

Dont forget Rock used to host aerobatic servers for nearly a year before we started Virtual Aerobatics, and then it was only up 2-3 afternoons a week

 

Pman