Visual Improvement of future Sim.

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

If we compare with any other products, we can easily see that ED makes huge improvements in visual aspect of LockOn. Especially about water I think. But what's the next step?

 

I'd like express my ideas about a new, never introduced aspect of visual feature in flight simulations. I'll try to explain:

 

Real world has much brighter lights and darker areas, computer graphics doesn't.

 

When we see pictures or film we can easily see the limited dynamic range in the light values of the images, if we have good light exposures of white clouds, we'll surely have underexposed dark areas, with total loss of details. At the opposite same if we make correct exposure of shadows areas.. the white bright cloud will be nothing more than a white flat area, just becouse film or digital sensor cannot capture the full range of light available in the scene, same for human eyes, in fact we have pupils to dose the amount of light hitting the retina.

 

I think it would be a good idea to simulate the human eyes by adding a light meter to the scene, same as a still camera light meter. When the pilot moves the pov from outside to inside of the cockpit, the "pupil" should open, with more reading of dark areas and a washed out effect of the outside views... clouds becomes overexposed.. sunlight is disturbing....

 

When the pilot looks outside, the scenery light exposure become correct and the cockpit goes darker a little, or absolutely dark when we look straight in to the sun.

 

Doing this, we may have more dynamic range and realism! expecially now that we have TrackIRs...

 

Also cockpit structure shadow plays a big role here, very strong shadows over the panels help us understand how we are moving. Clean sky: hard shadows, cloudy sky: soft or null shadows.

 

Remember also about gauges glass reflections moving inside the 3D cockpit.

 

Another idea: When the sun is too much, what about a controllable sliding sun visor ? (assigned to a key I mean..)

 

Some of you will tell me about priorities and FPS drop for eyecandy stuff but consider the release date.. there will be more powerfull computers, the industry makes better computers becouse new software demands it...

Anyway it could be a selectable feature from options... that we can turn it off if we don't have enough power...

 

Attached images show the light role in realism matter... Dark cockpit of the Gripen would look nicer too also in a sim.

 

 

The water wasn't a priority in Flight Sims' world, and it sucks a lot of FPS too, but now we have nicer sims...! May be light control could be a next step.

[SuperKungFu]

Yea that will be great ideas. And while we are on the topic of eye candy, here's my 2 cent. Although lomac graphics is the best so far in flight sims, there's a couple more things i would like to see to make this game even more kick ass.

First, some of these russian birds are heavy smokers. If you ever see these planes in airshows or videos, the MiG especially, produce a lot of black exhaust.

The smoke also curls up on turns or can be seen through clouds.

And of course i would like to see sonic booms or air vabor around the plane during tight turns.

During low speed, the smoke pod should curl up around the plane like the one above.

And finally, missiles/rockets do produce different type of fire like this.

 

YES I KNOW ITS A LOT TO ASK AND THERE'S WAY TOO MUCH PHYSICS INVOLVED...but i can dream can't i?

There's also should be new models for some planes. better afterburner effect, smoother shadow, visable fire when firing the gun, smoke curls up when landing, refueling boom for russian birds should be more "rope-like" meaning it could bend and move and not that stiff.....bla bla bla...i can go on but im sure in your mind u are saying stfu. lol so i will. happy holiday every1.

[Iron Legionnaire]

zaGURUinzaSKY: Valve has already introduced HDR (High Dynamic Range) lighting in the Lost Coast tech demo for Half-life 2, so it makes sense that this technology will eventually find its way into other engines and other games.

[warthogmadman987]

I would most like to see the realistic missile exaust. When you watch a maverick launch off the a-10 in the game it has that white look to it. It should have a more orange color to it.

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

zaGURUinzaSKY: Valve has already introduced HDR (High Dynamic Range) lighting in the Lost Coast tech demo for Half-life 2, so it makes sense that this technology will eventually find its way into other engines and other games.

HDR is not the same thing... I'm talking about variable exposure related to where we look. HDR is not this thing. It's good in photography, it takes and merges pictures of same object made with different exposures but the results again is a picture where you see all light values, what I mean is still a limited dynamic range but variable exposoure value..

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

HDR is usefull to create a virtually unlimited dynamic range picture from many pictures of real world, but from the moment we can use a custom palette of colors in our game, we have no problems to have good readable shadows and nice highlights, but what I intend to ask is to have LIMITED dynamic range and variable exposure based on where we're looking in that moment, same as real life ....

[Shaman]

I think what you guys wish is the future for these Physics Processing Units cards.

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

I think what you guys wish is the future for these Physics Processing Units cards.

Yeah as I wrote in topic title, for future sims....

[Shaman]

As far I remember one of these physics processing cards is about to be released by ASUS.

 

 

I'm looking forward for Eagle Dynamics' support for this kind of hardware in their future products. Imagine the possibilities it could give. You've already posted photos of what special effects we could expect: dynamic clouds and fog.. that react to air flow disturbance. Imagine detailed collision models for all objects in your vicinity. Possibly very detailed modeling of weapons effectiveness (kinetic, heat, shockwave damage).

Except special effects, maybe this card and its SDK could shorten developing of Advanced Flight Model for other planes :)

 

I really hope this kind of hardware will become standard in hardcore PC simulations.

[Silent Warrior]

Um... You guys didn't invent a tradition of new-year's-pranks or anything while I've been away, have you? That physics card sounds just too damn fine to be true... PPU soonish, eh? Well I'll be...

[GGTharos]

Yeah, it is a new-year's-prank.

 

Would anyone like to guess why your 'PPU' wouldn't be able to calculate fluid dynamics anywhere close to the speed that a supercomputer can (which still doesn't do it in realtime) and why it simply isn't done unless it's canned? ;)

 

We're talking about a huge numebr of particles, which neither the PPU nor the graphics card will be able to handle well.

 

What, don't tell me you didn't notice the lag from the little gun-against-ground exposions, hm?

[ALDEGA]

You know, you don't need a special card to do physics ..., it only offloads the CPU.

 

Lockon 1.1+ already has good physics (AFM etc) without needing a dedicated processing card. Same goes for all available games with physics today (like Havoc physics engine; used in quite a few games). Today's CPU's are powerful enough to do a fair amount of physics processing. Also, ED already invested in implementation with the current physics code, they'd have to adjust all that to that PPU's API.

 

I personally think that modelling wind/vapour, as seen in the photos (1, 2), should be the last thing ED works on.

 

How about:

- AFM for existing flyables

- new theatre(s) (balkan?)

- dynamic campaign

- improved simulation (more authentic missiles, cockpit guages/MFD modes)

- communication

- weather simulation

- improved performance (code revision, x64 executable, multi-core cpu usage)

- improved graphics (lockon looks the same now as two years ago: many objects are still Flanker 2.x :D, but first let's make the performance good ;) )

- immersion? (missing ... totally ;) )

 

refueling boom for russian birds should be more "rope-like" meaning it could bend and move and not that stiff

Maybe they can do this with the existing physics code, but surely this is not priority.

 

Plenty of items left on the to-do list.

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

we're a bit off topic from original post... if a devs can say their opinion about light idea would be great, thanx

[Nate--IRL--]

Seem to remember somewhere on these forums ED (Olgerd possibly ?)mentioned that they were looking at HDR technologies, as to when these will appear in an ED flight Sim is anybodys guess.

 

Nate

[chennuts]

HDR is not the same thing... I'm talking about variable exposure related to where we look. HDR is not this thing. It's good in photography, it takes and merges pictures of same object made with different exposures but the results again is a picture where you see all light values, what I mean is still a limited dynamic range but variable exposoure value..

Having played the Lost Coast demo numerous times, I assure you that this effect is available with HDR effects. If you look into the sun, then away, your "eyes" adjust, and vice versa. Is this not what you're asking for?

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

Having played the Lost Coast demo numerous times, I assure you that this effect is available with HDR effects. If you look into the sun, then away, your "eyes" adjust, and vice versa. Is this not what you're asking for?

Oh then it's a good news, so we all ready have it! We have to implement it in lockon...

I'll try the demo to see if is what I mean , thanx bud

[dynamocl]

Just to add, in the lost coast demo, you can be in an outside area, facing the sun, your "eyes" adjust to the light and everything appears bright. You then walk into a dark alley, and you cant see anything because its too dark, a few seconds later, your "eyes" adjust and you can start making out detail in the tunnel. Again when you walk out of the tunnel into the sun, you cant see anything - its too bright, a few seconds later things get darker as the modelled iris closes.

 

To be honest, it was a very minor effect, (and sorry HL fan bois), I found it to be a bit naff.

 

I can imagine the physics unit will become important in about 2-3 years, then it will be useful for just a few more years (5 maybe) - after that the CPUs will then be quick enough to do the physics calculations back on board and make an off processor physics usint redundant... just a prediction.

 

But imagine realisticly modelled buildings - modelled brick by brick - being hit by realistic modelled ordanance and reacting semi realisticly. May not be that spectacular in an aircraft - but imagine it from tank commanders perspective. Things can only get better.

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

Yep that's what I'd like to see... thanx for the info dynamocl

[britgliderpilot]

But imagine realisticly modelled buildings - modelled brick by brick - being hit by realistic modelled ordanance and reacting semi realisticly. May not be that spectacular in an aircraft - but imagine it from tank commanders perspective. Things can only get better.

 

Great, in theory - but the more complex it gets, the problem starts to become one of pure construction time. I hate to think how complex it would be to actually model all the buildings in the Crimea like that ;)

 

 

Sooner or later there'll come a point where it's possible to model all this, and have the hardware run it - but you won't be able to do it because you just can't afford to spend the time doing it.

[JaNk0]

I have HL2 lost coast. So last night a took it for a test to see if you were right boys. So i looked into the sun and then to the right side were the mountens were, guys...I don't think it such a huge differens as it should be when we look in the sun. The area around the sun doesn't get any darker. Now don't get angry with me,it's just what i think and what zaGURUinzaSKY made alot of sense to me. I would really want to see that in the future.

 

For an example. If you are flying formation and you are behind and the sun is shining on the plane infront of you, doesn't it makes sence that it SHOULD be darker in the cockpit? I mean, where does the light come from?? Well, i hope ED will see this. I would really like to hear thier comments

 

Ten-four JaNk0

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

yep moving lights inside the aircraft.. with limited variable (but not too much) light exposure based on where we look.

 

imho this is next step, same as was 3D cockpit after 2d cockpit.. this is an aspect still not simulated in todays simulators.

[anivanov]

this is an aspect still not simulated in todays simulators.

 

but they will be simulated, for sure!!!!!

[Iron Legionnaire]

I have HL2 lost coast. So last night a took it for a test to see if you were right boys. So i looked into the sun and then to the right side were the mountens were, guys...I don't think it such a huge differens as it should be when we look in the sun. The area around the sun doesn't get any darker.

 

Well, I don't think we can truly simulate on a computer monitor what it's like to stare into the sun for a few seconds, look elsewhere and wait for our eyes to adjust. We can approximate, but obviously there are going to be certain limitations, such as the limited brightness and darkness of computer monitors as compared to what we can see in the real world with the naked eye. Can you imagine yourself wearing a pair of sunglasses in front of the computer in order to prevent your game from blinding you? :D

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

Well, I don't think we can truly simulate on a computer monitor what it's like to stare into the sun for a few seconds, look elsewhere and wait for our eyes to adjust. We can approximate, but obviously there are going to be certain limitations, such as the limited brightness and darkness of computer monitors as compared to what we can see in the real world with the naked eye. Can you imagine yourself wearing a pair of sunglasses in front of the computer in order to prevent your game from blinding you? :D

That's not what I asked, look the two attached pictures, both in your monitor but real has better light. That's becouse the dark areas are out lighted with a realistic amount of light and becouse the exposure itì's adjusted for the outside... no need of sun in the monitor.

[Witchking]

To be honest...the graphics are pretty good already and can be made better by just improving the way its being rendered. One thing for sure is that the engine is NOT YET WELL OPTIMISED. They used 1.1 pixel shaders to model some effects from the 2.0+ ps era. apart from that things like advanced haze take too much of the fps too. ED have to somehow find ways to allow us to run lomac at a constant 30 fps even in big warzones.

 

I am not asking for miracles here...but something like a new rendering system like a bubble system rendering stuff in a fixed circle around you and fading farther stuff away as in most simulations should be used.

 

Water is not a FPS killer in most games. Look at sh3...the water is soo amazing and has good physics on ships too. It has colours, layers and also realism. we should get something like that where ships move LIKE ships, not like a ship moving on rails.

 

Apart from that...I would definately love to see improved explosions that look better and are more dynamic...parts flying around...dust kicked up..sheilds shattered...etc.