Which Documentary is a Lie?

[AlphaOneSix]

As for three F-86 pilots downing 50 MiG-15s. That is also possible.

50/3=16.67

So if you took the three top scoring USA aces you will get a number like that.

 

In one fight? I don't think so. Each of the three F86s would have to shoot down 16 or 17 adversaries each, with an average of just 1.25 seconds of shooting each. Unless the MiGs just flew along in a straight line while getting shot down, that's just not possible not do in a single fight.

[FanBoy2006.01]

What?!?!?!

 

Did they mean in one fight!!!!!!

 

Man I haven't seen that even happening in SciFi movies!:doh:

 

Thought they meant for whole of the pilots' tour.

[H-var]

What?!?!?!

 

Did they mean in one fight!!!!!!

 

Man I haven't seen that even happening in SciFi movies!:doh:

 

Thought they meant for whole of the pilots' tour.

 

I know, right...

[karambiatos]

The Dogfights series is very heavily biased. It doesn't lie exactly, but it definitely misleads by framing conclusions and using selective data, eg. "american firepower, american training, and the enemy doesn't know what hit them" is a typical episode introduction.

 

are the dogfights series made by discovery?

[Trooper117]

You need more options in this poll... I don't believe any of them, and of course the film makers and to some extent the pilots are going to big themselves and their sides up... both parties think they are right.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

After 1999, I know for a fact that our media, as well as our military/political establishment is not to be believed a word about international affairs. My distrust was further reinforced with the recent war in Iraq. Even with Crimea, I can see that we are putting our self's deeper and deeper in a la-la land about who we are and what the truth and freedom is about.

 

Therefore, with every passing day, our media is a step closer to what media in Communist countries use to be when it comes to international affairs. Therefore both of these documentaries are not to be trusted.

 

BTW, domestic affairs is completely different matter, and truth in reporting, and making documentaries, is at a completely different level and standard.

 

PS

I took a Crimea as an example, because it is fresh in our minds. Here is one simple fact/example. All of you probably heard our president, our senators and congressmen saying again, and again and again, that Russia broke international law over Crimea. But, have you heard ONCE, from any of our senators, congressmen or a president, from any of the major media, or from any media in USA, an analysis of WHICH international law Russia broke over Crimea? You haven't and there is a good reason why you haven't.

[lunaticfringe]

You want to fly an aircraft and have the better chance of surviving the 50's era engagement, you fly the F-86. This all comes down to the nature of the control system, versus the shallow maneuvering envelope all of the engaged types had at the time. *Every* aircraft of that era was limited in installed thrust, and in no way held an energy reserve capable of sustained maneuver in even the horizontal plane.

 

So what you have are engagements that, for lack of a better way of expressing it, swirl around the "energy toilet bowl". The problem is compounded by attempts to reduce one's turn radius through a larger oblique component, with the intent on holding a higher position while the other guy slips a little further down, then catching him on the backside of the corner. 0.85 Mach to 0.92 Mach, running downhill, isn't all that far away altitude-wise.

 

And the MiG-15 can't go past that- VNE is not a joke when you're nose down with no control authority. That susceptibility, and her own hydraulic-assist controls, granted the Sabre the ability to walk away from bad spots, being that the other guy had to actively court suicide to run him down. If the fight could be kept "relatively" slow, the Fagot had a subtle maneuvering margin that could be used to an advantage. But it simply wasn't something that could be counted on given the nature of the fight.

[sobek]

I took a Crimea as an example, because it is fresh in our minds. Here is one simple fact/example. All of you probably heard our president, our senators and congressmen saying again, and again and again, that Russia broke international law over Crimea. But, have you heard ONCE, from any of our senators, congressmen or a president, from any of the major media, or from any media in USA, an analysis of WHICH international law Russia broke over Crimea? You haven't and there is a good reason why you haven't.

 

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "international law" really is. I suggest you read up on that.

 

With that said, this will be the last politically themed post in this thread.

 

Next one gets a warning without further notice, i kid you not.

[WildBillKelsoe]

And probably this is the type of thread that could witness a 'lock'.. well, my 2 cents (so long as there are takers), is that documentaries tend to exaggerate facts and unless I was ON FOOT INSIDE THESE A/C and AT THAT TIME (long before I was born), I don't think the answer lies in CGI recreations or old time veterans re-counts. Any media is misguided, and all media is a LIE, IMHO.

[Scrim]

Hello forum,

 

I have been watching some documentaries about first jet fighters and found a funny thing - American documentary tells how 3 jet fighters killed like 50 of North Korean MiGs,

 

So, before judging the American documentary incredibly biased, did you watch it?

I watched it, and it didn't show 3 Sabres downing 50 MiGs. It showed 3 Sabres downing 2 MiGs in one dogfight, and 3 other Sabres downing 3 MiGs in another dogfight. So tell me again how that Dogfights episode was biased?

[H-var]

So, before judging the American documentary incredibly biased, did you watch it?

I watched it, and it didn't show 3 Sabres downing 50 MiGs. It showed 3 Sabres downing 2 MiGs in one dogfight, and 3 other Sabres downing 3 MiGs in another dogfight. So tell me again how that Dogfights episode was biased?

 

It is good to know that you looked at the documentary. Next time try to also listen to it.

[sobek]

Well, it seems that nothing good will come out of this thread anyway, which was to be expected.

 

Closed.