A-10c refueling Questions

[Snoopy]

Use brakes to get in position if needed but not once hooked up.

 

And is says not recommended not you can't use them.

[Stuka]

^ Stuka - love this can I ask what the source is? Can I get a copy?

-Sharpe

 

Sharpe, the table is out of: http://www.slashdocs.com/miuzmy/altus-kc-135-and-c-17-air-refueling-guide.html

 

Some more stuff about KC-135 procedures: http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a3_5/publication/afi11-2kc-135v3/afi11-2kc-135v3.pdf

[Harzach]

This should be a sticky.

[Stuka]

Now, as for tips:

For me, the "aha moment" came when I trimmed the plane down. This forces me to always have to have a bit of a force on the stick.

Worked for me, might not for others.

 

No tuning of axis or any other modifications.

[-Pv-]

My gut tells me once connected there should be some small resistance to falling off the boom (maintaining connection should become slightly less difficult than obtaining it in the first place.) If this exists in the sim, it's virtually undetectable.

-Pv-

[PFunk1606688187]

My gut tells me once connected there should be some small resistance to falling off the boom (maintaining connection should become slightly less difficult than obtaining it in the first place.) If this exists in the sim, it's virtually undetectable.

-Pv-

 

Your gut would be right. There's a story of a wounded F-4 (I think) being towed across the ocean while it was suffering engine thrust issues. I figure, if there's enough suction to drag an airplane for the value of knots lost to bad thrust that suction has got to be enough to give us a more generous neutral power settings for staying on the boom.

 

As it is it just feels like you're flying close formation with the boom attached to you like its made out of Papier-mâché (until it hits your cockpit anyway). Its not actually that big of a deal in the end though.

 

The thing I learned for me that was key was getting Pitch Trim exactly as I needed it so that I could almost forget about pitch issues. If I could stop yanking up and down like an idiot then it just left 2 variables to control: roll and thrust. 2 variables isn't too bad.

[-Pv-]

As with you, pitch for me isn't as much of a problem as bank and throttle. Coupled with the lack of boom connection stability and throttle control not being fine enough, keeping yaw under control too is just too much.

-Pv-

[PFunk1606688187]

I just ignore yaw. The yaw damping from SAS is sufficient for the gentle and smooth inputs necessary to stay on the boom anyway.

 

I would imagine TM Warthog people could have it easier managing throttle due to the option of basically advancing only one very slightly to give a finer input than trying to advance both, though I have no idea if this is a realistic way to do things.

 

In the end even if your hardware is garbage time spent practicing with it will allow you to adapt and develop muscle memory for it, its just less than ideal.

 

I think that people that have applied extension modifications to their stick though probably have it easiest of all. Thats where real pilots have an advantage over 99% of us.

[snafup]

hi pv,

I had the same problem as you starting off. I watched the videos,scanned the forums etc... looking for what i was doing wrong. My biggest problem was following the boom and not the plane. I practiced and practiced getting more frustrated everytime i failed. Then one day it happened. I got it,i got the speed, trim, and timing. I hooked on and started taking fuel. It wasn't long mind you but i did it. I probably scared my spouse with my cry of joy at taking on fuel,any fuel. Once i got the first hookup and feel for what was needed, it got easier to connect the more i did it.

It really helps that i have a wathog throttle control, as this give me pretty fine control over throttle, trim, and joystick movements.

I open the fuel door far enough back so i can have trim set properly by the time I'm ready to make contact.

I don't use separate throttle inputs as i don't need it to get fuel, just feathering the throttles for more and less thrust works. You start remembering the sound of the engines and the pitch that keeps you at the right speed to maintain connection.

[Golo]

... You start remembering the sound of the engines and the pitch that keeps you at the right speed to maintain connection.

 

Carefuly, dont get used to something you doing time and time again in the same conditions. The AAR is very dynamic proces there is no right sound of the engines, speed or throttle settings.

If you will be tanking in different altitude, temperatures with different load/weight it will be different.

 

BTW, I remember one of my first attempt at AAR. I was behind that tanker for about 30min and all I got by that time was 500lbs of fuel. I was sweating like a pig, after landing I had to take a shower. Ah that was good time. Now its just easy.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Golo

[-Pv-]

There's no SAS damping when I fly the plane. As soon as the door is open, damping goes out the window and the plane flies like a kite. If I didn't try to adjust L+R, I wouldn't stay on the boom even the short time I do.

 

I'm not using the Warthog stick which is too expensive for me, but I am using a fairly expensive one (Saitek X65.)

 

Once I'm on the boom, if I could cut ALL controller sensitivities in half (like the Space Shuttle DAP) I think I would not have any trouble.

-Pv-

Edited July 26, 2013 by -Pv-

[PFunk1606688187]

There is a strong nose up tendency once you open the slipway, but once I re-trim I don't have any issues with yaw since the control inputs to say in formation are so slight as to keep the ball acceptably centred, in my experience.

 

-Pv- what are your roll and pitch curves set to if you have any? Some people say they can AAR with a 0/0 curve, while others say they only find success with a carefully tuned one. In any case, the issue should be that any curve you have which affords excellent radical control in combat conditions is still inadequate if it doesn't afford acceptable control in tight formation flying.

 

I tried the 0/0 thing, and once I set mines to 12/12 I found a good balance. I'd try playing with the stick curve. You shouldn't need halved sensitivity so long as your stick isn't total garbage. Just a light touch and plenty of muscle memory and instinct for selecting the input for the condition the plane is going to be in 2 to 3 seconds, which requires judgment to know what that condition will be in 2 to 3 seconds.

 

Maybe a track or video of your attempts can show us what you're doing, and someone can see if you're overcontrolling or not in the right angular position relative to the boom or something.

 

I'd really suggest ignoring Yaw and focusing on using roll and power only. Just take your feet off the pedals.

[-Pv-]

I have tried various curves, none and very gradual-

1) very small change near the center of the stick

2) very small throttle near center (200 - 220 knots IAS)

 

I don't use any rudder.

 

Yes, I'm overshooting on the speed and roll. I've known that since day one.

Example:

I start to get off the boom center to the right, a little left control, plane still moving right, a little left control, plane still moving right, a little more, plane still moving right. I'm now at the boom limits with plane still moving right. A little more left aileron, plane starts moving left. I start small right movements, everything continues to behave as above with no sense of control, then I'm off the boom to the left and disconnected. I can see the results of my inputs as as I try to compensate.

 

Although the rolling is a problem, the speed control is worse. I'm pushing against the boom stops or I'm disconnecting. Staying in the center is impossible, even if my speed indicator shows that my speed hasn't changed.

Example:

Connect to the boom at estimated tanker speed 270 ground (based on intercept and looking at the mission in the editor. I do everything I can to hold the 270 but I'm collapsing the boom. I try to back off and see the boom unwinding. Speed indicator still shows I'm 270 ground and a moment later, I'm disconnected. It doesn't help that the speed indicator is rounding to the nearest knot, so I could be 269.6 - 270.4.

Now if I had a tanker track 150 miles on a side, maybe... but that's not typical in the game. I'm not likely to get a long, perfect weather track in a campaign or the missions that require a refuel near start or end.

-Pv-

[PFunk1606688187]

I think a track would be beneficial then. If people can see the extent of your inputs it should help more than trying to interpret your descriptions.

 

I should say that once you're flying rough formation and connected ignoring the HUD numbers is better. I use the speed only when forming and falling behind. If I'm suddenly falling back from the plane very fast then I know that I'm more than 1 knot off speed at which point I quickly see what my actual speed is so that I can decide how high my recovery power input is, that is to say the amount I overshoot the required power setting for formation in order to stop falling back start moving forward and which should allow me to bleed it off as I return to the boom area.

Edited July 27, 2013 by P*Funk