what to expect from Su-27 module?

[Rotorhead]

Flanker fanboys galore ...

The question begs, what would you rather have; a poorly modeled Su-27SM or a precisely modeled S? Or, no Flanker at all ...

Some like the old stuff you know ;)

 

Hah, what do you think? Of course we want Su-27SM, and by that, I mean fully and precisely modeled one! Or even better, Su-35!

 

We are Flanker fanboys, you know... :smilewink:

 

Well, I think I will have to settle with S variant then.

[NineLine]

This is a really sad news...... really it breaks my heart.

 

One of my friend got banned from DCS Forum because he describe ED is becoming more like EA.

 

Ask him about the language he used before the EA statement, and I think thats probably a better reason why he got the ban.

[otto]

Flanker fanboys galore ...

The question begs, what would you rather have; a poorly modeled Su-27SM or a precisely modeled S? Or, no Flanker at all ...

Some like the old stuff you know ;)

 

I'm not a su27 fanboy so will buy the f15E and F18 and harrier and so on.

But i would have wanted also a Su-27SM or another DCS modern russian fighter jet as realistic as could be made(not 100% i mean).I want realism but i'm not a total fanatic about it.

And i see that the eastern jets are totaly neglected in terms of future projects.The only exeption being

Studio Beczl: Mig-21Bis

 

Besides in terms of realism f22 and f35 will be two jokes.

Edited August 15, 2013 by otto

[Pilotasso]

yes, there is a need for a more modern Russian Aicraft. There should be a team to make the SM Flanker or Mig-29M2/SMT versions.

[NineLine]

I think the availability of info is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for Russian aircraft. Restrictions in Russia are heavier when it comes to info like what is needed.

 

I'm not a su27 fanboy so will buy the f15E and F18 and harrier and so on.

But i would have wanted also a Su-27SM or another DCS modern russian fighter jet as realistic as could be made(not 100% i mean).I want realism but i'm not a total fanatic about it.

And i see that the eastern jets are totaly neglected in terms of future projects.The only exeption being

Studio Beczl: Mig-21Bis

 

Besides in terms of realism f22 and f35 will be two jokes.

[Teknetinium]

Still, a DCS Su-27 of any level is appreciated, and I think there is more than enough room in DCS for different variations and generations of the same aircraft. That said, if we have early model Soviet hardware, why not add some DCS F-15A and F-16A? The latter in particular would make the Su-27S feel like a luxury car.

 

"The F-15 Multistage Improvement Program (MSIP) was initiated in February 1983 with the first production MSIP F-15C produced in 1985. Improvements included an upgraded central computer; a Programmable Armament Control Set, allowing for advanced versions of the AIM-7, AIM-9, and AIM-120A missiles; and an expanded Tactical Electronic Warfare System that provides improvements to the ALR-56C radar warning receiver and ALQ-135 countermeasure set. (The final 43 F-15Cs included the enhanced-capability Hughes APG-70 radar, which was developed for the F-15E. These 43 F-15Cs with APG-70 radar are sometimes referred as Enhanced Eagles. Earlier MSIP F-15Cs with the APG-63 were upgraded to the APG-63(V)1 to significantly improve maintainability and enable performance similar to the APG-70. Existing F-15s were retrofitted with these improvements.")

 

That should be a fear fight Su-27S vs F-15C stock models.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Teknetinium

[GGTharos]

So will any Su-27SM, Su-35, Su-30AnyVersion etc.

 

Besides in terms of realism f22 and f35 will be two jokes.

[NineLine]

 

That should be a fear fight Su-27S vs F-15C stock models.

 

If I am flying the F-15C you will not be so fearful :D

[GGTharos]

What is a 'fair fight'? What is a 'stock F-15C'?

 

By the time the Su-27S was fielded in significant numbers, they weren't in any danger of running into un-upgraded F-15Cs OR As.

 

It was never going to be fair. By the time they fielded a missile to solidly defeat the AIM-7F/M in terms of energy (that would be the R-27ER), F-15's were getting AMRAAMs. Every F-15 had a TEWS integrated with CMDS AND the radar. It could ECM the daylights out of anything that wasn't an SA-2/3/5 (Not sure about the 5). The Su-27S ... had one plane out of 4 fitted with a special ECM panel and Sorbitsya to try and protect the rest of the flight.

 

The flankers had generally better maneuverability in WVR and the advantage of R-73 (And sometimes HMS, not all of them carried it IIRC).

 

Which of this stuff makes anything a 'fair fight'?

 

That should be a fear fight Su-27S vs F-15C stock models.

Edited August 15, 2013 by GGTharos

[Teknetinium]

So will any Su-27SM, Su-35, Su-30AnyVersion etc.

 

Not as mutch as F-22 and F-35 since there is more documentation on airdynamics.

[Teknetinium]

What is a 'fair fight'?

 

By the time the Su-27S was fielded in significant numbers, they weren't in any danger of running into un-upgraded F-15Cs OR As.

 

It was never going to be fair.

 

GG understand that when Su-27S model was out there was only development on aim-120B so you are flying in a dream whit aim-120B from 1994-2004 against missiles from 1986.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

they wont be popular among mission makers online.

[NineLine]

There is a number of documents on F-22 aerodynamics if you know where to look, I think systems is the issue, and in that sense all planes listed will be limited on available info...

 

Not as mutch as F-22 and F-35 since there is more documentation on airdynamics.

[GGTharos]

How is that a fair fight? The AIM-120B can reach some 55km, so sure, it's range is just shorter of the ER by some 10km under the same circumstances, but the F-15's TEWS won't let you use the range on that ER anyway. :)

 

GG understand that when Su-27S model was out there was only development on aim-120B so you are flying in a dream when louaded whit aim-120C. if you want to have a fear fight.

[Rotorhead]

Flanker fanboys galore ...

The question begs, what would you rather have; a poorly modeled Su-27SM or a precisely modeled S? Or, no Flanker at all ...

Some like the old stuff you know ;)

 

Hah, what do you think? Of course we want Su-27SM, and by that, I mean fully and precisely modeled one! Or even better, Su-35!

 

We are Flanker fanboys, you know... :smilewink:

 

Well, I think I will have to settle with S variant then.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention... We want it NOW. :D

 

On the more serious note though, if there was a high fidelity sim of Su-27SM, Su-35 or Ka-52, I'd buy any of them at this very moment without thinking about it twice. But we have to keep it real, it won't happen any soon (if ever :cry:).

 

I won't pretend I'm not disappointed by the news, but, I'm pretty sure that even basic Su-27S will be a total blast. If simulated as deeply as Ka-50 and A-10C, it's still my dream coming true. A real pinnacle of the Flanker series, as realistic as there is almost nowhere to go any further.

 

Sad about the SM, but still looking forward to the S as kid before Christmas. :thumbup:

[Flying Penguin]

Not as mutch as F-22 and F-35 since there is more documentation on airdynamics.

All of those are third party planes. There's nothing stopping you and a bunch of other like-minded SU-27 fans going ahead and making a what-if-fi* SU-27SM, then it will be a match for the other what-if-fi western aircraft (i.e. pretty much anything Gen 4+/5).

 

ED have made clear their preference for doing planes only where they can get most (if not all) the necessary data to do them to as near to 100% as possible, at least in part as a showcase for their non DCS work. On that basis, an ED made SM is unlikely in the near to medium term.

 

When you see a DCS level ED product, you know you are getting as near to real as declassified information allows and something made without them filling in significant blanks, to start down the what-if-fi route would dilute that very strong brand.

 

 

 

*i.e. with some key capabilities "best guessed" because of lack of information, that's not to say they are bad quality or deliberately simplified

Edited August 15, 2013 by Flying Penguin

[GGTharos]

A high fidelity Su-27SM might be possible in a few years (wild, wild guess on my end). A Su-35 or Ka-52, forget it.

[Teknetinium]

If I am flying the F-15C you will not be so fearful :D

 

sorry for my spelling, but if you knew anything about this community you would know that 51st flying Su-27S mainly don't fear anyone, special f-15 fanboys.

Since we have pounded them all even with outdated half working systems.

[Flying Penguin]

sorry for my spelling, but if you knew anything about this community you would know that 51st flying Su-27S mainly don't fear anyone, special f-15 fanboys.

Since we have pounded them all even with outdated half working systems.

 

Which was pretty much his point in the first place ;)

[Teknetinium]

A high fidelity Su-27SM might be possible in a few years (wild, wild guess on my end). A Su-35 or Ka-52, forget it.

 

 

GG why don't you have same attitude to F-35 and F-22 thread

F-22, F-35 forget it :)

[GGTharos]

Then quit whining. So far you've had pretty 'fair' systems, you really don't know what 'outdated' means :)

 

sorry for my spelling, but if you knew anything about this community you would know that 51st flying Su-27S mainly don't fear anyone, special f-15 fanboys.

Since we have pounded them all even with outdated half working systems.

[NineLine]

Well reach on around and pat your self on the back, you deserve it.

 

sorry for my spelling, but if you knew anything about this community you would know that 51st flying Su-27S mainly don't fear anyone, special f-15 fanboys.

Since we have pounded them all even with outdated half working systems.

[SkateZilla]

It's the Man.. not the Machine...

[GGTharos]

I didn't say you could get high fidelity F-35's or F-22's, though there seems to be some possibility for reasonable representation of the F-35 to the virtual pilot. That, of course, remains to be proven.

 

On the other hand, I do know that ED guys don't like jail-time, and revealing secret information means jail-time. Su-27SM and Su-35 are secret. You see what I am getting at? So, the only thing you can do for those planes is look at some internet pics and make cockpits that look similar, and guess most of what is displayed on the panels.

 

So yeah, you can do all those planes, but not DCS fidelity IMHO :)

 

GG why don't you have same attitude to F-35 and F-22 thread

F-22, F-35 forget it :)

[*Rage*]

I didn't say you could get high fidelity F-35's or F-22's, though there seems to be some possibility for reasonable representation of the F-35 to the virtual pilot. That, of course, remains to be proven.

 

On the other hand, I do know that ED guys don't like jail-time, and revealing secret information means jail-time. Su-27SM and Su-35 are secret. You see what I am getting at? So, the only thing you can do for those planes is look at some internet pics and make cockpits that look similar, and guess most of what is displayed on the panels.

 

So yeah, you can do all those planes, but not DCS fidelity IMHO :)

 

Matt himself said it will be a very long time before we have DCS F15/27 with clickable pits ala A10. They will remain at FC3 level but with AFM for the time being. Why not then also a 27SM FC3 level till more info is available? If indeed thats the reason it was dropped.