what to expect from Su-27 module?

[pepin1234]

Nobody but the guy planning to blow his entire wad for a fleeting glimpse at a poor shot knows how, or is willing to take his aircraft to low speed. Nor does anyone know the best performance capability for their aircraft in comparison to a dedicated low-speed fighter.

 

Nope- it's like the Spanish Inquisition. AND NOBODY EXPECTS TEH SPANISH INQUISITION!!!1!

 

If you dont care what is the benefits of the Cobra manuever just wait and see how this work.

 

The Cobra can be use it for Missile evation in BVR or in offensive manuever in dogfight.

 

Obviously you speak about the low Speed because the people like you need take an excuse in hand.

 

by the way, Spanish Inquisition :doh:... yes call them to safe you of the splash one, two, and three :megalol:

[karambiatos]

Can i come enjoy the fireworks Tek? Those R27's always make such nice fireballs in the sky.

 

id pay to see this

[Pilotasso]

and that is where you are wrong... if real time aerodynamics achieved then we can simply build realistic 3d model and we can expect the model to fly realistically without the need to create several separate codes for each flight characteristics.

 

that is what they have been trying to do in real time graphics hardware and software world with things like physx; it's comparable to having motion captured 3d CG animation vs manually created 3d CG animations.

 

I have done that, and the planes wont fly the way you want it the first time, you will have to assume guesswork on many variables and break it somewhere else.

 

If you dont care what is the benefits of the Cobra manuever just wait and see how this work.

 

The Cobra can be use it for Missile evation in BVR or in offensive manuever in dogfight.

 

Obviously you speak about the low Speed because the people like you need take an excuse in hand.

 

by the way, Spanish Inquisition :doh:... yes call them to safe you of the splash one, two, and three :megalol:

 

Im not sure if your being sarcastic or not, if you aren't then please try it while Im on the server please! :D

[Pilotasso]

Cobra is not working in FC3, otherwise I would do it on you on daily bases. If you want to take out your frustration I can't give you a Go. Bring your buddies and i'll make a server to show you where you stand. You can bring Aim-120 with you as well, Im sure will will need them.

 

tek I seen you online for many years, and know your flying style very whell. I have never seen you do a cobra, not while fighting me anyway. When You suspect your close to optimum AMRAAM launch parameters, or already fired at you either go hide behind a rock or do 180º to run like a bat out from hell like most people do. Ill eat crow and be damned if you ever slowed down to do a cobra.

 

Let me give you a couple hints:

 

1-let ED fix EOS, and missiles will not change most people tactics since they stayed the same over the years.

2-Trying to figure out what mountain you will popup from is much more difficult and frequent (and I figure it out right most times) than guessing where you will be after a cobra. ;)

Edited August 11, 2013 by Pilotasso

[Teknetinium]

tek I seen you online for many years, and know your flying style very whell. I have never seen you do a cobra, not while fighting me anyway. When You suspect your close to optimum AMRAAM launch parameters, or already fired at you either go hide behind a rock or do 180º to run like a bat out from hell like most people do. Ill eat crow and be damned if you ever slowed down to do a cobra.

 

Let me give you a couple hints:

 

1-let ED fix EOS, and missiles will not change most people tactics since they stayed the same over the years.

2-Trying to figure out what mountain you will popup from is much more difficult and frequent (and I figure it out right most times) than guessing where you will be after a cobra. ;)

 

 

Let me give you a hint pilotasso. Su-27 FLANKER tactic is not possible to employ because we don't have datalink modeled, that would be a game changer since F-15 dont have it ;).

 

I bet you know this pilotasso, that 8vs8/4vs4 or GI multiplayer campaign is nothing like flying on public servers. Where it have been proven over and over again that tactics and teamwork is the key to any aim-120 spammers, Soon you will have to fight R-77 and Cobra pilotasso, So even those lonely wolf glory days, shooting down other lonelywolfs will get harder to claim.

 

Let me give you another hint. There is no one that have better kill ratio in F-15 on public servers then one pilot from 51st, 128 kills to 0 death. Trust me, we know how good F-15 is, Or let me say Aim-120C5x. And we know as well that you would get surprised even more by ET if datalink was modeled.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

Let me give you a hint pilotasso. Su-27 tactic is not possible to employ because we don't have datalink modeled, that would be a game changer since F-15 dont have it ;).

 

I bet you know this pilotasso, that 8vs8/4vs4 or GI multiplayer campaign is nothing like flying on public servers. Where it have been proven over and over again that tactics and teamwork is the key to any aim-120 spammers, Soon you will have to fight R-77 and Cobra pilotasso, So even those lonely wolf glory days shooting down other tumbleweed noobs will get harder.

 

Ill be waiting then ill get back to you to say "I tol ya so" :)

 

Also, its funny you call it spam if I can carry only 6 AMRAAMS and always face 1 VS many scenarios. Good Luck!

 

Let me give you a hint pilotasso. Su-27 FLANKER tactic is not possible to employ because we don't have datalink modeled, that would be a game changer since F-15 dont have it ;).

 

The Flanker (i.e. current Su-27S) data link is not realtime like it was ingame, and the F-15 does have a Datalink IRL since the 80's (a better one). Ever heard of JTIDS? They now have Link 16 these days. Where in hell did you ever heard it didn't have datalink? :huh:

 

If they would ever simulate this in the SIM the game would change alright. Just in the opposite direction you expected. :D

Edited August 11, 2013 by Pilotasso

[Teknetinium]

Ill be waiting then ill get back to you to say "I tol ya so" :)

 

Also, its funny you call it spam if I can carry only 6 AMRAAMS and always face 1 VS many scenarios. Good Luck!

 

 

 

The Flanker (i.e. current Su-27S) data link is not realtime like it was ingame, and the F-15 does have a Datalink IRL since the 80's (a better one). Ever heard of JTIDS? They now have Link 16 these days. Where in hell did you ever heard it didn't have datalink? :huh:

 

If they would ever simulate this in the SIM the game would change alright. Just in the opposite direction you expected. :D

 

 

pilotasso as I know F-15 did not receive datalink, only exceptional squads compared to Su-27S where it was standard. If you want to compare those F-15s/F-16blockx, why don't we bring in Su-35s/Su-30 in to discussion.

 

You love to compare Old Su-27S from 80s that you believe didn't have a single upgrade, it would be remarkable if components had so good lifetime in those stressful conditions.

 

And again you tell me my datalink is much better than yours when you have not even seen F-15s datalink. Jump in Su-27 in FC3 and you will find the datallink options on Su-27 that I wish was working. It would be more then enought to know where 4 of my buddies are.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Teknetinium]

.

[pepin1234]

Im not sure if your being sarcastic or not, if you aren't then please try it while Im on the server please! :D

 

I dont want now. You know very well that the russian missile even been improved a bit by ED they countinue giving us the R-27 so weak, so save your courage for an impartial game.

[nap0leonic]

I have done that, and the planes wont fly the way you want it the first time, you will have to assume guesswork on many variables and break it somewhere else.

eh what? :huh: you have done what?

[Teknetinium]

That Su-27S had datalink as standard befor F-15 and F-16blockX is something you have to accept together with that cobra can be used against you when you don't see it coming:)

Edited August 11, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

eh what? :huh: you have done what?

 

At university we had a 3D application to build virtual airplanes and get the flight model as a result of weight, center of gravity and surface lift centroid and drag. After you get the 3D model everything else was guesswork, not surprisingly we got it wrong most of the times, or when changing something actually made it worse.

[Pilotasso]

pilotasso as I know F-15 did not receive datalink, only exceptional squads compared to Su-27S where it was standard. If you want to compare those F-15s/F-16blockx, why don't we bring in Su-35s/Su-30 in to discussion.

 

You love to compare Old Su-27S from 80s that you believe didn't have a single upgrade, it would be remarkable if components had so good lifetime in those stressful conditions.

 

And again you tell me my datalink is much better than yours when you have not even seen F-15s datalink. Jump in Su-27 in FC3 and you will find the datallink options on Su-27 that I wish was working. It would be more then enought to know where 4 of my buddies are.

 

The flanker was introduced in 1984 and the F-15 got JTIDS in 1986 while the soviet AF was still had the flanker early in its introduction. Given both planes coexisted for 30 years, your going to be picky due to a 2 year difference? :D

[Teknetinium]

The flanker was introduced in 1984 and the F-15 got JTIDS in 1986. Given both planes coexisted for 30 years, your going to be picky due to a 2 year difference? :D

 

Those who got it was exceptional squads not like Su-27 where all had datalink. I don't think it was more than two squads. Do you know witch squad did get it and how datalink looks in F-15? Since at airshows when you climb into the cockpit you just cant find it compare to Su-27S built in datalink options.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

The flanker wasn't exactly mainstay of Soviet regiments by 1986 either, so pfff. :P

 

Do I need to repeat myself, the flankers datalink was not realtime. It was GCI data only.

[Teknetinium]

The flanker wasn't exactly mainstay of Soviet regiments by 1986 either, so pfff. :P

 

Doesn't beat the point that Su-27 had datalink as standard compared to F-15 witch still don't have it as standard I believe.

I dont have the technical knowledge, I could argue about only GCI receiving data, you need to be more logical.

 

In 1992 Su-35 was doing its introduction even though in went into service around 2005.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

You believe? They had it standard for a long time, while RuAf has kept the Su-27S as their main fighter plane.

 

EDIT: And I made a mistake, JTIDS was not introduced in 1986 but in 1985.

 

In 1992 Su-35 was doing its introduction even though in went into service around 2005.

 

Incorrect, the 1992 Su-35 was a completely different model from current Su-35S. The original Su-35 never entered service (only demonstrators). And the Su-35S only entered service in limited numbers last year. Its a moot question regardless, its not simulated anyway.

 

EDIT2:

 

Edited August 11, 2013 by Pilotasso

[Teknetinium]

You believe? They had it standard for a long time, while RuAf has kept the Su-27S as their main fighter plane.

 

EDIT: And I made a mistake, JTIDS was not introduced in 1986 but in 1985.

 

They kept it because of obvious reasons, If it can take down F-15 with Aim-120C in simulated environment as FC3 where Su-27 don't have working TWS/EOS/datalink and ER-27 that can be avoided by not even making 60 degree pincer. Then in real life it would be even more capable and endure more threat because you just can't test milion times how to avoid ER-27.

 

Same goes for the F-15 there is many thing that would improve it but we are talking about Su-27 now as I can see it in the thread.

 

Help F-15 Mafia.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

They kept it because they had difficulty getting funds for fighter programs. The issues with simulated Su-27S will be fixed and is not a reason to say the SIM has defanged the flanker as is not finished. You got it by now only because you accepted all limitations inherent to a beta when you downloaded the product. ;)

 

I don't even drop online as much, Im waiting to get the issues sorted out first before emphasizing any lingering issues.

[Teknetinium]

They kept it because they had difficulty getting funds for fighter programs. The issues with simulated Su-27S will be fixed and is not a reason to say the SIM has defanged the flanker as is not finished. You got it by now only because you accepted all limitations inherent to a beta when you downloaded the product. ;)

 

I don't even drop online as much, Im waiting to get the issues sorted out first before emphasizing any lingering issues.

 

 

We are talking about Su-27 in here not that F-15 is the best fighter in all departments. So I would suggest that you stop hijacking the thread with your F-15 mafia attitude, make your own F-15 data link thread as you had before with LEVU. Whit believes that you are imposing more realistic simulated environment where you alway want something better but nothing equal, which there is. So plz make your own F-15 thread, we are talking about Su-27s datalink/TWS/EOS and aerodynamics in here.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

You are one funny guy, taking a blind eye to your own posts when it is convenient for you... "help F15 mafia!" LMAO :lol:

Edited August 11, 2013 by Pilotasso

[nap0leonic]

At university we had a 3D application to build virtual airplanes and get the flight model as a result of weight, center of gravity and surface lift centroid and drag. After you get the 3D model everything else was guesswork, not surprisingly we got it wrong most of the times, or when changing something actually made it worse.

 

and your point is? the software we could demand today (and finally made in the future) can be vastly superior the application you used... we had no real time fluid dynamics simulation done with consumer level hardware until a few years ago while T-1000 already appeared on cinema 20 years ago :D

[Pilotasso]

My point is, you would exhaust CPU resources and never be assured that the flightmodel would be any more precise than current implementations. :)

 

The application I mentioned was developed inhouse.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Pilotasso

[Esac_mirmidon]

Su-27С datalink data came not only from GCI (НАСУ), but also from other Su-27 and Su-30 with the same equipment and also from AWACS.

 

They have installed the comunication and data exchange device К-ДлАЗ and also the СПК-68 or СПК-75 radio command and control devices. This devices were improved and modernised in the past years. The original ones were from 90´s.

 

All data are displayed in the MFD in tactical mode.

 

The Su-27SK manual has several ilustrations of the MFD in datalink tactical mode an also there are a chapter that shows how to use and manage the inforrmation coming from GCI or other planes.

 

Also only as a example in close combat this pics shows how to take advantage of extreme AoA maneouvers with the Su-27 in different situations.

 

My intention it´s only showing examples not arguing if those maneouvers are more o less effective. And i´m talking about close combat.

 

IMHO having greater AoA capabilities, Helmet Mounted Sights and R-73M missiles are useful in several close combat situations. At least having this capabilities is better than nothing.

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2013 by Esac_mirmidon

[lunaticfringe]

pilotasso as I know F-15 did not receive datalink, only exceptional squads compared to Su-27S where it was standard.

 

DLS delivered 800+ MIDS terminals to the USAF. Even with *half* of those going to F-15s (placing one in *every* KC-135- the other aircraft they were for) that's a lot of, as you say, "exceptional squadrons".

 

You know, almost every F-15C procured by the Air Force. :lol:

 

And again you tell me my datalink is much better than yours when you have not even seen F-15s datalink.

 

You're so wound up you don't even bother making sure what you're saying makes logical sense. For a guy who doesn't realize what's coming out of his brain and being set down by his fingers, you sure like telling people what they know and don't know.

 

Invite me for what, must missed it?

 

How did you miss something that you quoted wholesale in #41?

 

Of course- your "They're Telling Me I'm Wrong So I'm Going To Claim Bias/F-15 Mafia Filter", or TTMIWSIGTCBFMF, kicked in the instant your wet dream got squashed.

 

Seriously- you don't read what you write yourself, and you don't comprehend what others write that you're responding to. Why should anyone bother to waste their time reading your commentary beyond supporting the concept of TTMIWSIGTCBFMF?

 

tek I seen you online for many years, and know your flying style very whell. I have never seen you do a cobra, not while fighting me anyway. When You suspect your close to optimum AMRAAM launch parameters, or already fired at you either go hide behind a rock or do 180º to run like a bat out from hell like most people do. Ill eat crow and be damned if you ever slowed down to do a cobra.

 

Oh, now that's some funny s* right there.

 

<TTMIWSIGTCBFMF>

 

But Pilotasso- don't you understand?! To do a Cobra tactically demands a datalink! It demands a working R-27! Demands working EOS! Demands it being reverted back to a keystroke! Demands Venus aligned with Mars and Mercury in retrograde!

 

</TTMIWSIGTCBFMF>