Trees collision and MP

[Tvrdi]

Hello all,

Im very excited about this project and will participate in kickstarter. But I have two concerns. First is collision model for trees which is important feature in hardcore sims. Currently DCS world doesnt have collision model for trees, right?. Would that be included in Europe 44?

 

Second one is MP. Im curious how it will look like. Would be possible to build and play COOP missions?

[White Owl]

Second one is MP. Im curious how it will look like. Would be possible to build and play COOP missions?

 

It's possible to build and play COOP missions in DCS World right now, so I can't imagine DCS WWII would have less functionality that way. Unfortunately, the current DCS multiplayer is kind of limited, though. If you search Luthier1's posts, you'll find he wrote about wanting to greatly improve the current MP situation, but not yet making any promises or sharing any details; it's still very very early WIP.

[Tvrdi]

It's possible to build and play COOP missions in DCS World right now, so I can't imagine DCS WWII would have less functionality that way. Unfortunately, the current DCS multiplayer is kind of limited, though. If you search Luthier1's posts, you'll find he wrote about wanting to greatly improve the current MP situation, but not yet making any promises or sharing any details; it's still very very early WIP.

 

Cool thanks mate

[URUFox]

Don't take it wrong, and I don't mean to hijack the thread, but one day after kickstarter and no one from the project answering questions? Not a good sign IMHO. I'd really like to get an answer from the original source regarding trees also.

[NineLine]

Luthier has answered questions since kickstarter has started, its just they are spread all over the place among a few threads...

 

Fox;1862375']Don't take it wrong' date=' and I don't mean to hijack the thread, but one day after kickstarter and no one from the project answering questions? Not a good sign IMHO. I'd really like to get an answer from the original source regarding trees also.[/quote']

[kontiuka]

It seems unlikely trees will be collidable, at least in the near future. See Luthiers post near the end ...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=109847&page=95

[[DBS]TH0R]

It seems unlikely trees will be collidable, at least in the near future. See Luthiers post near the end ...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=109847&page=95

 

 

That is bad news. RoF has it, why can't EDGE?

[kontiuka]

That is bad news. RoF has it, why can't EDGE?

Not sure. But I think it's more a question for Eagle Dynamics since it is their graphics engine.

[[DBS]TH0R]

Not sure. But I think it's more a question for Eagle Dynamics since it is their graphics engine.

 

Hence me referring to the EDGE, not DCS WWII. This has put me away from any heli purchases thus far. If it isn't fixed (read: added) with the next engine it will remain the same way. Right now I consider this being the biggest flaw in DCS. The AI can see and shoot through trees and they are there just for show. Nothing less, nothing more.

 

With the DCS WWII planeset, and obvious emphasis on ground attack, I do think this is a severe downside if we do not get trees as collideable objects and AI can again see through them.

[URUFox]

Luthier has answered questions since kickstarter has started, its just they are spread all over the place among a few threads...

 

Thanks for the clarification. Anyways, having a direct answer in the right topic would be much better. Don't get me wrong, I want this project to succeed, take it just as constructive criticism.

 

Maybe open a "Questions to the Dev. Team" thread? Just a few answers a day would be awesome. I know it takes away a lot of time, but it also gives people reassurance that they won't be let down.

[NineLine]

I agree, but this is his show :)

 

Fox;1862425']Thanks for the clarification. Anyways, having a direct answer in the right topic would be much better. Don't get me wrong, I want this project to succeed, take it just as constructive criticism.

 

Maybe open a "Questions to the Dev. Team" thread? Just a few answers a day would be awesome. I know it takes away a lot of time, but it also gives people reassurance that they won't be let down.

[Tvrdi]

It seems unlikely trees will be collidable, at least in the near future. See Luthiers post near the end ...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=109847&page=95

 

Well Im so sorry Luthier...

[Smurfy1967]

Can someone who knows about programming explain to the masses why tree collision is such a problem , why do they have to be treated as individual items ? can`t they be a group so instead of tracking each one whole areas are tracked, say grid co-ordinates and height, enter that area at less than that height and boom you`re a gonner. Or can they be groups of 50 modelled as one entity. I don`t know I`m just curious. I see tree collision as a must have feature in a sim, CloD with the people deliberately flying through vegetation to avoid detection isn`t par for a top flight sim. If you take offence at this post then why?, I`ve merely asked a reasonable question.

[ishtmail]

More than trees collision, I'm interested in proper multi-seat multiplayer action for airplanes that have several crew members, like the bombers. I'd love it if we could have a proper multiplayer team manning pilot seats, turrets etc.

[[DBS]TH0R]

Can someone who knows about programming explain to the masses why tree collision is such a problem , why do they have to be treated as individual items ? can`t they be a group so instead of tracking each one whole areas are tracked, say grid co-ordinates and height, enter that area at less than that height and boom you`re a gonner. Or can they be groups of 50 modelled as one entity. I don`t know I`m just curious. I see tree collision as a must have feature in a sim, CloD with the people deliberately flying through vegetation to avoid detection isn`t par for a top flight sim. If you take offence at this post then why?, I`ve merely asked a reasonable question.

 

That plus the fact luthier's statement doesn't seem to be valid to me (and sounds exactly the same like the one we heard for CloD). Reason: RoF has every single tree as an obstacle and you can collide with it. Then again, I am also not a programmer.

 

More than trees collision, I'm interested in proper multi-seat multiplayer action for airplanes that have several crew members, like the bombers. I'd love it if we could have a proper multiplayer team manning pilot seats, turrets etc.

 

Some of this is already in the works, or so it seems (for Mi-8MTV2):

 

Multiplayer coop mode for crew members of the same helicopter under development for a later update

[ishtmail]

Yeah, Belsimtek promised that feature already for the Huey, so this has been in the works for quite a while. But I think it's up to ED actually to implement this possibility in DCS World.

[159th_Viper]

Can someone who knows about programming explain to the masses why tree collision is such a problem , why do they have to be treated as individual items.....

 

If they are not treated as individually modelled entities then you effectively negate the AI's ability to engage from the cover of forests. AI will also not be able to drive through/navigate said forests.

 

You see this very serious problem? This is just one of the reasons, I assume, that a generic single collision box over an entire forest just isn't feasible.

[[DBS]TH0R]

If they are not treated as individually modelled entities then you effectively negate the AI's ability to engage from the cover of forests. AI will also not be able to drive through/navigate said forests.

 

You see this very serious problem? This is just one of the reasons, I assume, that a generic single collision box over an entire forest just isn't feasible.

 

What about excluding ground forces out of this collision box equation?

[Skoshi Tiger]

Hitting trees shouldn't necessarily mean you should instantaneously explode.

 

Planes came home all the time with leaves, wires, roof tiles and various other assorted objects dangling from their planes.

 

Hitting a substantial tree trunk on the other hand should be fairly disastrous!

 

Does DCS have a power pole object (or similar) that a mission designer could place in the trees around objectives just to make things interesting?

 

What sort of numbers could be placed on a map before it would noticeably impact on performance?

 

Has anyone tried this?

[159th_Viper]

What about excluding ground forces out of this collision box equation?

 

What, and have no ground units moving about at all? That's obviously never going to happen.

[Endy]

I'm baffled as to why lack of collidable trees is such a problem for some people. I played DCS or Clod Multiplayer a lot and it's very rarely an issue.

 

Most dogfights take place at at least a few hundred feet, more likely a couple of thousand. Sure, it might happen someone will run to the deck and, if you don't have a "gentleman's agreement" on the server not to fly through trees, then he might attempt to hide in the forest. But that's very, and I mean very rarely an issue, perhaps 1-2% of the total fights? So I don't understand why this is a deal breaker for some and they prefer games with much worse FM and DM just because you can hit a tree...By that logic War Thunder is a better sim just because it has trees collision...

[kontiuka]

I mentioned this in another thread and I believe it's a pretty old idea. You set up proximity zones (not collision zones). For example, you set up a large proximity zone, just a big invisible box, around a forest. If an aircraft is in that box, you check if it is in the north sub-zone or the south sub-zone. If it's in the north sub-zone, then you check if it's in the east or west of that north sub-zone. Basically, you just keep drilling down until you're checking individual trees or small groups of trees. This is just the general idea. I'm not sure what the most efficient implementation would be but it sure beats trying to check for collisions against millions of trees every second. That would be impossible.

[kontiuka]

I'm baffled as to why lack of collidable trees is such a problem for some people. I played DCS or Clod Multiplayer a lot and it's very rarely an issue.

 

Most dogfights take place at at least a few hundred feet, more likely a couple of thousand. Sure, it might happen someone will run to the deck and, if you don't have a "gentleman's agreement" on the server not to fly through trees, then he might attempt to hide in the forest. But that's very, and I mean very rarely an issue, perhaps 1-2% of the total fights? So I don't understand why this is a deal breaker for some and they prefer games with much worse FM and DM just because you can hit a tree...By that logic War Thunder is a better sim just because it has trees collision...

I think this extends to DCS in general. For helicopters, where ground cover is paramount, it's a pretty big issue.

[kontiuka]

Anyways, collidable trees or not, I'm backing this project because I think it will be pretty awesome.

[Rotorhead]

I'm baffled as to why lack of collidable trees is such a problem for some people. I played DCS or Clod Multiplayer a lot and it's very rarely an issue.

 

Most dogfights take place at at least a few hundred feet, more likely a couple of thousand. Sure, it might happen someone will run to the deck and, if you don't have a "gentleman's agreement" on the server not to fly through trees, then he might attempt to hide in the forest. But that's very, and I mean very rarely an issue, perhaps 1-2% of the total fights? So I don't understand why this is a deal breaker for some and they prefer games with much worse FM and DM just because you can hit a tree...By that logic War Thunder is a better sim just because it has trees collision...

 

What? We have 3 helicopters in DCS world now, 2 Cold War era attack planes used to operate at nearly treetop level, and... wait for it... even ground forces simulation. And yet you are asking why some people are upset for not having collidable trees?

 

No offense, mate, but I mean seriously? When omitting such a important aspect of ground, helicopter, and low-level air combat, I'm asking why people should not see it as a problem.

 

Especially since RoF has it, IL-2 had it to some degree, and even FSX if I'm not mistaken.