DCSW - awesome

[KennethBF]

Just installed A-10C.... Looks great! unfortunately, can't fly in it today. heading out to family, (for thanksgiving). will give this bird a go tomorrow. :thumbup: (nice deal at Steam)

 

:thumbup:

 

It's a lot to learn, but it's fun all the way.. I still learn things, and I have been flyeing for some time now. :smartass:

 

You should get some of the F-16 BSM frinds to convert to DCS.

[Frostie]

I do not think FC3 is a bad simulator, but it is more "arcade" than the other(DCS). "Everyone" knows this.

 

Yes I may step on someones toes when I say this.... But maybe it is because they do not master or do not have time to learn the "high end" modules.

 

Some people like to fly Arma and battelfield, and some like to fly DCS A-10 C

 

Or maybe they don't agree with you trying to take the higher ground by labeling FC3 as arcade. Would you call some of the DCS systems arcade because they don't work realisticaly or the BMS DC arcade or everytime padlock or labels are used is that now arcade. How about just flying around without procedures you can implement procedures into any sim and this is just as much about simulating a fighter pilot as flicking several switches is, so if you don't do it then with your view DCS must be arcade too.

 

Obviously all of that and you are wrong, you don't grasp what an actual arcade game is and choose to belittle FC because it doesn't fit your criteria. The fact you state that people who use FC don't master or have the time for DCS is laughable.

 

Some people like to fly only the most detailed sims avaliable while others enjoy that but prioritise being pilots more than flicking switches.

[Echo38]

Frostie, your post implying that FC3 is the same fidelity as A-10C is misleading at best. You owe it to the new people to not trick them into buying something that they're going to wish they hadn't. I would be very disappointed if I bought FC3 because you called it a realistic simulator, only to find out that it does not have realistic systems management like that on the high-fidelity modules.

 

Javelina: the A-10C, P-51D, Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, and UH-1H modules are maximum-fidelity. This means that they are modelled about as realistically as you can get on a PC. There are a few minor things missing (e.g. the classified encoded radio), but almost everything is working like the real aircraft (or, more accurately, about as close as you can get on a PC sim).

All the other modules at the time of this post are "medium-fidelity"--most of the systems are unrealistically simplified a great deal. Instead of taking a couple of dozen actions to get the aircraft started & combat ready, it takes only a handful of keypresses. Turning on the engines is as simple as pressing two keys, instead of the multiple actions required on the higher-fidelity modules. Same's generally true of the other systems.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Echo38

[GGTharos]

Echo, he is implying something completely different.

 

There is no comparison between FC3 and 'arcade'. FC3 has an 'arcade' mode which is less arcade than arcade!

 

It's not only insulting, it shows a type of elitism that stems from lack of understanding the whole flying thing.

 

(Incidentally, you can use two keys to turn on all hi-fi modules :P )

 

Frostie, your post implying that FC3 is the same fidelity as A-10C is misleading at best.

[Echo38]

I wouldn't call it "arcade," either ('coz it has good flight physics, at least), but it's important to note that FC3 is not intended to be a high-fidelity simulator! His initial post made it sound like it was high-fidelity, and it isn't right to trick the newbies like that.

[winchesterdelta1]

I think you read Frostie's post the wrong way Echo. He never implies that FC3 is the same fidelity as the DCS A-10C. He simply explains very clearly why you can't see it as a arcade game. It's very accurately explained why not. Not misleading at all.

More people from the community and official guys have explained already why you can't call FC3 arcade. He basically says that if you call FC3 arcade than BMS is arcade as well, and that playing A-10C without proper procedures can be seen as arcade by real aviators as well.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd

Edited December 3, 2013 by winchesterdelta1

[GGTharos]

Describing this vs that is always very tricky.

 

The important part is that combat still always consists of maneuver, detect, sort, designate, fire, maneuver. You can do all of that in both of them. This was Frostie's point.

 

I get your point too and I agree, if you want 'as good as it gets', hi-fi is the way to go in terms of simulation of the vehicle; I don't have a problem with what you said, I just think that you didn't interpret Frostie's point the way it was meant to. You called FC3 'medium fidelity' which is about right. The flight models are reasonably accurate within the limitations of the old FM, and the weapon systems do more or less what they're supposed to with minimal fuss.

Edited December 3, 2013 by GGTharos

[Echo38]

FC3 is a simulator that uses complex physics and controls to simulate aircraft combat operation. There is an option called 'arcade mode' to dumb the flight model and controls down.

 

If I were new to DCS, I could only take this to mean that FC3 is a high-fidelity simulator, which isn't accurate. That's my point. It's important to help the new guys know what's high-fidelity and what isn't, so no one gets "tricked" into buying the wrong thing. (There really ought to be a sticky thread which simply lists which modules are max-fidelity and which are simplified-difficulty.)

[blkspade]

Using the term arcade at all in reference to FC3 is grossly inaccurate as well, and could be only interpreted as such by someone quite new to the flight genre as a whole. You don't degrade what is and has basically existed as "Simulation" simply because now a "more detailed" simulation exists. Having been into flight gaming/siming since the 90s there is a very clear distinction of what is truly arcade and where simulation begins. Call it what you want, but for the time being FC still is the best means to engage human opponents in dissimilar air combat in a semi-accurate fashion. Which to me is more meaningful then flipping a few switches, and dropping bombs on drones. Yes I have A-10C, and no its not that hard.

 

If I were new to DCS, I could only take this to mean that FC3 is a high-fidelity simulator, which isn't accurate. That's my point. It's important to help the new guys know what's high-fidelity and what isn't, so no one gets "tricked" into buying the wrong thing. (There really ought to be a sticky thread which simply lists which modules are max-fidelity and which are simplified-difficulty.)

[Echo38]

Yes I have A-10C, and no its not that hard.

 

The difficulty is irrelevant--what matters is how accurately it simulates the aircraft. A-10C is closer to a training tool than a game, which can't be said for FC3. Sure, some things are missing in the high-fidelity modules, but they teach a great deal about real flying. The medium-fidelity modules teach far less, as they are missing so much more.

[cichlidfan]

Sure, some things are missing in the high-fidelity modules, but they teach a great deal about real flying. The medium-fidelity modules teach far less, as they are missing so much more.

 

How does the A-10C with AFM and lots of working switches, teach more about flying that the A-10A with AFM and no working switches?

[Echo38]

How does the A-10C with AFM and lots of working switches, teach more about flying that the A-10A with AFM and no working switches?

 

The occupation of flying requires knowing how to operate the aircraft.

 

Imagine a person who can fly a real airplane, but only if someone else starts it up for him and adjusts the systems during the flight to keep things running smoothly. If that person called himself a pilot, wouldn't you think that just a little pretentious?

 

I agree that aerodynamics is more essential to the flight sim than systems management, but for a true flight sim, both are necessary. The original purpose of a flight sim was to help teach students how to fly airplanes. (Naturally, sims cannot replace real flight training, but they can augment it.) As a training tool, then, a flight simulator should teach the user--as much as is possible with the medium--every aspect of piloting the aircraft being simulated.

 

My meter of a flight sim is this: if an experienced sim-pilot could hop into the real airplane without any prior training other than the flight sim, and start it, taxi, take off, and land reasonably well without your instructor assisting more than a tiny bit, then the simulator has done its job. If, on the other hand, he hops into the real airplane and can't figure out how to get it started, and can't figure out how to keep his engine running properly after someone else starts it for him, then there's something wrong with the simulator. A game like that can be considered a flight sim, but, by that reasoning, a person who can fly a real airplane only when someone else starts the engine for him is a pilot.

[Frostie]

If I were new to DCS, I could only take this to mean that FC3 is a high-fidelity simulator, which isn't accurate. That's my point. It's important to help the new guys know what's high-fidelity and what isn't, so no one gets "tricked" into buying the wrong thing. (There really ought to be a sticky thread which simply lists which modules are max-fidelity and which are simplified-difficulty.)

 

FC does have complex physics and controls, why would you want to lie about that. There is nothing there that states it is has a clickable pit with an extensive avionic simulation. FC3 is a simulation plain and simple, why would someone mar that fact by calling it arcade.

[GGTharos]

Sure, DCS will give you a fuller experience, that's not in question.

 

The occupation of flying requires knowing how to operate the aircraft.

[blkspade]

The fundamentals of flight are immediately applicable across every aircraft. After that understanding flight characteristics of a particular aircraft are very important. Then completing what ever task that craft is intended for. We're just adding the lengthy approach of putting a key in an ignition on top of the more accurately modeled systems. So the FC craft successfully fulfills the bulk of what you need in a simulation leaving out perhaps 10%

 

The occupation of flying requires knowing how to operate the aircraft.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2013 by blkspade

[ENO]

Are you guys SERIOUSLY going to hijack a thread like this with nitpicking over the definition of arcade versus a simulation?

 

The thread subject line is DCSW: Awesome. How about you leave it at that?

 

 

Good grief- have some respect for the people who can still come in here and enjoy the sim.

[karambiatos]

Are you guys SERIOUSLY going to hijack a thread like this with nitpicking over the definition of arcade versus a simulation?

 

The thread subject line is DCSW: Awesome. How about you leave it at that?

 

 

Good grief- have some respect for the people who can still come in here and enjoy the sim.

 

what is this "enjoy" thing you speak of?

[mr_mojo97]

So Karambiatos, are you saying that after 400 or so posts (meaning you spend a fair amount of time on theses forums) and have reps and some other lovely green squares too. I presume you do actually fly something in DCS World but you don't particularly like it? Just my opinion of course but I think your priorities are a bit out of kilter. Maybe you need a doctor. Or or course you could just actually be sarcastic in that last post in which case it was a bit of a pointless post.

[Frostie]

Are you guys SERIOUSLY going to hijack a thread like this with nitpicking over the definition of arcade versus a simulation?

 

The thread subject line is DCSW: Awesome. How about you leave it at that?

 

 

Good grief- have some respect for the people who can still come in here and enjoy the sim.

 

Couldn't possibly have altered the tone of the thread much more.

 

Last time I checked FC3 is part of DCS:W and the OP enjoyed it too because it is awesome. How about respecting those that enjoy and defend its existence in DCS:W against the put down remarks, as if everybody who flies DCS:A-10C would be let down by FC3. It's a great sim and I'm sure if someone came on here belittling A-10C as arcade then we'd have over 300 posts claiming it's a sim not an arcade game by now, with you included. It is these simple remarks that wrongly give FC such a bad image.

[karambiatos]

So Karambiatos, are you saying that after 400 or so posts (meaning you spend a fair amount of time on theses forums) and have reps and some other lovely green squares too. I presume you do actually fly something in DCS World but you don't particularly like it? Just my opinion of course but I think your priorities are a bit out of kilter. Maybe you need a doctor. Or or course you could just actually be sarcastic in that last post in which case it was a bit of a pointless post.

Yheap it was a joke, because of the negativity in the thread. Actually I really like the game, despite its so insanely aggravating problems, but you cant love something if you dont hate it at the same time :D

[mr_mojo97]

Well that's ok then isn't it?

[Psyrixx]

Full Fidelity "Study Sim" (A-10C, Ka50, P-51, UH-1H, Mi8 )

[AKA: Fully Clickable Cockpit, Fully Modeled Systems, Aircraft Flies Realistically]

 

Partial Fidelity "Survey Sim" with Advanced Flight Model (A-10A, Su25, Su25T)

[AKA: Non-clickable Cockpit, Simplified Systems, Aircraft Flies Realistically]

 

Partial Fidelity "Survey Sim" (F-15, Su27, Su33)

[AKA: Non-clickable Cockpit, Simplified Systems, Aircraft Flies More Simplistically]

 

----

 

I own all the modules and love them all equally. None are 'easy' by any sense of the word. All have an "arcade" mode which basically just adds a target radar (Halo-style). All are at least as good as any other flight simulator on the market as far as getting in the air and flying around.

 

The further up the totem pole you go, the longer it will take to learn the aircraft and the more complicated the learning process becomes. The Partial Fidelity Survey Sim aircraft are easy to learn and a ton of fun to get into the air quickly and blow stuff up. The F-15 and Su27 will soon be moving up the totem pole to Partial Fidelity Survey Sim with Advanced Flight Model, but the ETA on that is still not known. Same with DCS: F/A-18C Hornet, which will be a Full Fidelity Study Sim; however, no ETA on that has been stated.

 

Whatever you buy, you win. Also, that is a huge list of aircraft for any flight simulator and covers a wide range of interests. HOW AWESOME IS THIS GAME?

 

Awesome enough that often times I just load it up to do nothing more than fly around and enjoy the scenery. :)

Edited December 3, 2013 by Psyrixx

[javelina1]

I really love flying the Toad, so if you've followed the thread, I bought the A-10C. Both birds are great. Also, took advantage of the Steam sale to pick up Combined Arms (for future use).

 

I've since asked for the P-51 as an Xmas gift. Can't wait to check out that bird too.

 

I'll need to hunt down a good online squadron, that's good with helping Newb's through the ropes... :thumbup: