blackbelter Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 So difficult and frustrating...... I was so close to the basket, but always missed that little bit. Again and again... The problems that I think I encountered are: 1. Altitude-hold by pressiong the H key is very inaccurate. It has an uncertainty of ~20 meters, meaning that if I press H at the altitude, say, 6970m, the altitude after stablization is always something in between 6970 and 6990. 2. The tanker changes altitude quite frequently. That, quite obviously, brings nothing but more frustration... Questions: for the final approach for the connection, how should I adjust the altitude and heading? Manually? That seems so far quite impossibly difficult to me... Any tips and suggestions? Much appreciated... It seems that tonight I'll have to sleep in fustration :mad::helpsmilie:
104th_Maverick Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 Any tips and suggestions? Much appreciated... Never.... use ....... H In fact, never use any autopilot at all sir, it should all be done manually! AAR is very demanding as you have just found out, but it is great fun and challenging and with practice can be very enjoyable indeed! The story is the same old same old I'm afraid though... practice makes perfect, the more you do it the more it feels like second nature, so dont beat yourself up too much at the early stages. One of the most important things to do properly is have your aircraft trimmed correctly, this will make your approach, contact and disconnect much easier and less stressful. When your behind the tanker pre contact flying straight and level, very briefly engage Barometric Altitude hold AP (default Alt+4) then disconnect it again, you will now be nicely trimmed out to fly straight and level at the tankers airspeed. This next bit might sound a bit strange but you have to NOT look at the basket. You should be looking at the 'plane' not the basket. Watch the tanker as you approach as if you were in a formation flight and briefly only 'check' where the basket is. Obviously as you get closer to the basket it becomes more or a priority but right up until around 2-4 feet away from it you should still be looking at the tanker, not the basket. Sounds weird I know, but as soon as you try it you will see it makes perfect sense. Once your in the hard work begins, don't expect to be hooked up for 5 mins at a time straight away, go for small intervals, its less stressful and gives you more practice to connect to the basket. Try to only make small throttle adjustments, you will never reach a point where your throttle is stationary and perfect so don't try to achieve this, you will always be moving your throttle back or forth ever so slightly to stay plugged in, especially on windy days! For now trying approaching the basket by looking at the plane and see how you get on, you should see a difference straight away. You want to be looking at the plane but still be able to 'see' the basket in your vision (hope that makes sense) so as you close in on it you only glance at it for a second to make sure your approaching at the right angle then your looking back at the tanker to make sure your nice and steady on approach. People who look at the basket will start to bob up and down all the time as they chase it, focusing on the tanker instead will stop this from happening and after a little practice will make contact much easier! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 104th Phoenix Wing Commander / Total Poser / Elitist / Hero / Chad www.104thPhoenix.com www.facebook.com/104thPhoenix My YouTube Channel
Vekkinho Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 As Mav said, never use autothrottle (IIRC J button) or barohold (H) during IFR. All AI flights in FC1/2/3 seem to vary speed for no reason during straight and level flight. This was even worse with old LOMAC and FC1.1 when I practiced formation flights with AI units. IMHO IFR with FC3 now seems pretty easy... Once hooked I keep my eyes on the cable, I see it flexing back and forth and this way I can anticipate throttle inputs...I use TM Cougar and it's throttle has friction adjustment. For formation flying and IFR my friction is set to minimum so you can't take your left hand off from it without throttle "falling" to IDLE or Full Mil detent. This enables me to adjust engine RPM very precisely with small but constant inputs. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Winfield_Gold Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 set about 17-20% deadzone for the X axis. This also helps and the joystick is more fluid on inputs. This also helps when trying to keep it steady
golfsierra2 Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 Some (hundreds of) hours of practice, and you will achieve things like this: Watch 1:20 to 1:40 kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
Esac_mirmidon Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 I dream about flexible basket hose like in real life. This could make AAR a lot easier. You push the basket and it moves with you in a range. Dreams ¡¡ " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
blackbelter Posted December 31, 2013 Author Posted December 31, 2013 Thanks a lot guys for your very practical suggestions... Will take them and keep practising. One thing, though. Auto-throttle using the J-key seems very usable... Thanks to this, I have not had a problem in speed-control (so I kept dancing around a few meters away from the tanker). All my problems lie in heading and altitude controls... I think I'll keep using the J-key for the moment, and practise full-manual control later when I am confortable with heading and altitude controls. Hope that's not too far in the future Thanks again.
Vekkinho Posted December 31, 2013 Posted December 31, 2013 I suggest manual stick and throttle input throughout IFR... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
blackbelter Posted December 31, 2013 Author Posted December 31, 2013 Can any of you do a Su-33 IFR, preferably with full-manual control, and attach your track here... I'd like to see the whole story unfold in front of my eyes... Thanks in advance! Happy 2014!
blackbelter Posted December 31, 2013 Author Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) In trying to connect, I (Su-33) accidentally touched the tail of the tanker. There was noice indicating that there was touching, but other than that, no harm done. But guess what? The tanker ran away from me faster than a rabbit :lol: Edited December 31, 2013 by blackbelter
blackbelter Posted February 25, 2014 Author Posted February 25, 2014 Filled the tank of Su-33 in full for the first time EVER! What a feeling... :(
TheThumper Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Grats! That is an great accomplishment... Did you get it all in one drink? :) Keep practicing! I can refuel the A-10 in one drink, but new to the Russian style of tanking so that is a challenge for myself. Again, big congratulations on refueling ~Thump. Computer Specs: i7-6700K@4.00GHz, 32GB, 850 EVO 1TB, GTX 1080 Ti, Samsung Odyssey VR [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Lord_Pyro Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Tanking in the Su33 is easier than to fill up the A10c Thumper. Edited February 25, 2014 by Lord_Pyro [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70340_1.gif[/sIGPIC]
TeeJay82 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 for the su 33, Dock up and press autothrottle when your very close to the tanker`s airspeed. ( i use a reference point on the fuselage) if your slightly gaining on the tanker, reduce the throttle a little and disengange autothrottle and then reengage when you match and vice versa for gaining speed... makes it a whole lot easier
TheThumper Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Tanking in the Su33 is easier than to fill up the A10c Thumper. Not If you have tanked the A-10 like a million times and the Su-33 only a few times :). I understand the flight dynamics in the A10 are more accurate, I was just indicating that I have just started trying to tank with the Russian birds and let Belt know that I thought that was quite an accomplishment. ~Thump. Computer Specs: i7-6700K@4.00GHz, 32GB, 850 EVO 1TB, GTX 1080 Ti, Samsung Odyssey VR [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
blackbelter Posted February 26, 2014 Author Posted February 26, 2014 Grats! That is an great accomplishment... Did you get it all in one drink? :) Keep practicing! I can refuel the A-10 in one drink, but new to the Russian style of tanking so that is a challenge for myself. Again, big congratulations on refueling Thanks! In one drink? Maybe in my dream... But I will keep doing it. Hopefully will be able to do that in one go soon. Tanking in the Su33 is easier than to fill up the A10c Thumper. I would think so too, due to the AFM of A10-C. I have been wondering what it would be like to refuel a Su-33 with a realistic AFM... for the su 33, Dock up and press autothrottle when your very close to the tanker`s airspeed. ( i use a reference point on the fuselage) if your slightly gaining on the tanker, reduce the throttle a little and disengange autothrottle and then reengage when you match and vice versa for gaining speed... makes it a whole lot easier I have been using the J key... at least for now. It is controls the speed very accurately. It enables me to focus on maintaining a stable connection. When I am able to refuel in full in one go, I will try to do so without the J key. That won't be so soon, I think... Thanks guys.:thumbup:
Pyroflash Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Well the real reason it is easier is because the current way that SFM aircraft tank is by engaging autopilot on all modes. Once you hook up, you can go make yourself a cappuccino and read a chapter of your favorite book without once paying attention to the game. If you aim for the sky, you will never hit the ground.
Lord_Pyro Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Only A10A and F15 have that Autopilot. In the Su its a lot easier because you have a flexible hose. You can bend it quite a bit, allowing you to glide forward and back a lot more than the A10 may. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70340_1.gif[/sIGPIC]
Axion Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Well the real reason it is easier is because the current way that SFM aircraft tank is by engaging autopilot on all modes. Once you hook up, you can go make yourself a cappuccino and read a chapter of your favorite book without once paying attention to the game. Maybe in a budgie, but not in a '33 the last time I checked? Asus Z390 Code XI, i9-9900K, RAM 32 Gig Corsair Vengeance @ 3200, RTX 2080 TI FE, TIR 5, Samsung 970 EVO 1TB, HOTAS WH, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, HTC Vive Pro, Win 10 x64
TheThumper Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Yeah, I connected with the F-15 to find that there was the "cheat" mode of autopilot. I then decided to get the Su-33 connected and expected the same "cheat"... Imagine my surprise! I was very happy to find that the Su-33 experience wasn't "dumbed down". ~Thump. Computer Specs: i7-6700K@4.00GHz, 32GB, 850 EVO 1TB, GTX 1080 Ti, Samsung Odyssey VR [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
blackbelter Posted February 27, 2014 Author Posted February 27, 2014 Well the real reason it is easier is because the current way that SFM aircraft tank is by engaging autopilot on all modes. Once you hook up, you can go make yourself a cappuccino and read a chapter of your favorite book without once paying attention to the game. Well, apparently your current is different from our current... I remember seeing in Ironhand's tutorial that that was the case in Lock on. I didn't try it then, and things have changed.
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