pepin1234 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) For a convoy with light armors I use submunition container, but the containers seem useless for Tanks. Also we can use bombs, but a dive could be dangerous when there are AAA alive. Edited January 10, 2014 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
whitehot Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 And what about S-13, S-24, S-25 and S-25L? as a sidenote I reckon that in this sim, said rockets are modeled only in HE-FRAG warheads. Seems to me that the only rocket to have a dedicated anti-tank warhead in DCS is the S-8-KOM, the larger ones should only be used on soft targets (bar the S-25L). It would be nice if more warhead types could be modeled. I read that one variant of the S-13 for example, has a serious concrete penetration capability, it can in fact destroy hardened aircraft shelters by making somehow its explosive charge go off inside of them. They should also have some serious capability in disabling runways [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Intel i7 6700K @ 4.2, MSI M5 Z170A Gaming, NZXT X61 Kraken liquid cooler, PNY Nvidia GTX 1080 Founders Edition, 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 Mhz C15, samsung 840 evo SSD, CoolerMaster 1000W Gold rated PSU, NZXT Noctis 450 cabinet, Samsung S240SW 24' 1920x1200 LED panel, X-52 Pro Flight stick. W10 Pro x64 1809, NO antivirus EVER
pepin1234 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 exactly. The S-13 rockets is the most abandoned. The Problem with the S-13 is that real destruction and Penetration effect must be simulated with several Impact effect and not with the single destruction effect for one S-13 rockets. Is clear that more than 5 rockets Impact must destroy or serious damage a Shelter. Maybe the current graphic engine limit do something like that... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 It isn't clear how many rockets are needed to destroy a hardened shelter, but it is entirely possible that a single rocket could destroy (as in, damage in such a way that it is no longer useful, but not necessarily blow it up to little pieces) whatever is in the hangar. The problem is that there is no penetration model and post-penetration fuzing model for the warheads in the game. It has nothing to do with the graphics engine, it's all about damage and warhead fuze mechanics. exactly. The S-13 rockets is the most abandoned. The Problem with the S-13 is that real destruction and Penetration effect must be simulated with several Impact effect and not with the single destruction effect for one S-13 rockets. Is clear that more than 5 rockets Impact must destroy or serious damage a Shelter. Maybe the current graphic engine limit do something like that... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
maturin Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Aren't the S-13s still broken anyways? Last time I played, they would always impact a good 50-100m past the pipper, making them useless against point targets. And because of the baffling lack of any bug trackers (seriously, wtf), forum reports just get buried and there's never any indication of what is going to get eventually fixed.
Frostie Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 This week I harv be mostly using S-24B. - Jesse's tank diet "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
ED Team NineLine Posted January 10, 2014 ED Team Posted January 10, 2014 Do you see this in 1.2.7, if so report it in the Open Beta forum, including a track. Be sure to search the Open Beta forums to make sure its not been posted already, once its reported a Dev or Moderator will make the issue Reported. Obviously in the past it wasnt as easy to track user issues, but its getting better. As for an actual bug tracker, I am not sure we will see anything like that, and not to many companies offer that either, sure some do... but not many. Aren't the S-13s still broken anyways? Last time I played, they would always impact a good 50-100m past the pipper, making them useless against point targets. And because of the baffling lack of any bug trackers (seriously, wtf), forum reports just get buried and there's never any indication of what is going to get eventually fixed. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Frostie Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 The problem in the Su-25 is with anything pipper related when your slant attack is low, from a high angle attack there seems to be less of an issue... "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
karambiatos Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Aren't the S-13s still broken anyways? Last time I played, they would always impact a good 50-100m past the pipper, making them useless against point targets. And because of the baffling lack of any bug trackers (seriously, wtf), forum reports just get buried and there's never any indication of what is going to get eventually fixed. nope they arent boken at all, they are awesome, most of the time i get s-13s only, because i dont trust s-8s. A 1000 flights, a 1000 crashes, perfect record. =&arrFilter_pf[gameversion]=&arrFilter_pf[filelang]=&arrFilter_pf[aircraft]=&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC"] Check out my random mods and things
ED Team NineLine Posted January 10, 2014 ED Team Posted January 10, 2014 The problem in the Su-25 is with anything pipper related when your slant attack is low, from a high angle attack there seems to be less of an issue... Not to derail the entire thread... again... but do you think this is the nature of the aircraft or a bug? Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 That issue is the nature of gunnery of any sort. Shallow attack angles with unguided weapons lead to less accuracy. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ED Team NineLine Posted January 10, 2014 ED Team Posted January 10, 2014 That issue is the nature of gunnery of any sort. Shallow attack angles with unguided weapons lead to less accuracy. Ok GG, that makes sense, doesnt sound like a bug then... thanks! Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Doesn't mean there's no bug in DCS, but I'll point out that such bugs have been present in real aircraft and some of those issues are actually documented. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ED Team NineLine Posted January 10, 2014 ED Team Posted January 10, 2014 Doesn't mean there's no bug in DCS, but I'll point out that such bugs have been present in real aircraft and some of those issues are actually documented. Well only way to know is if a track is shared so we can see the issue. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
karambiatos Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 with the risk of almost certainly derailing the thread, is the piper sporadically jumping up and down when the laser is turned on, at a shallow attack angle realistic? A 1000 flights, a 1000 crashes, perfect record. =&arrFilter_pf[gameversion]=&arrFilter_pf[filelang]=&arrFilter_pf[aircraft]=&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC"] Check out my random mods and things
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Probably not, but this is a common issue with a lot of the pippers in-game. Pippers should be relatively stiff in a lot of cases, ie. not jump around with every little change in sensor readings. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Frostie Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 The problem is not just related to rockets but also laser guiding so I think this is more a DCS problem than an actual representation of shallow attacks, maybe to do with 6dof. The issue is with the HUD the pipper needs to be over the target at the centre of the HUD, as the pipper moves away from the centre of the HUD then the error increases ie. the stabilised pipper (if using laser) moves off the target. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 So what you're saying is that there's some form of significant (because all HuDs have some) parallax error - that's a bug, should be tagged, bagged and track provided so it is looked into. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
pepin1234 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 with the risk of almost certainly derailing the thread, is the piper sporadically jumping up and down when the laser is turned on, at a shallow attack angle realistic? Yes. I notice that too. Seem have relation with a non affective laser range at the Moments of the piper jump. Ones we get inside 5 km range the piper get stable. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
karambiatos Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Yes. I notice that too. Seem have relation with a non affective laser range at the Moments of the piper jump. Ones we get inside 5 km range the piper get stable. ive almost certainly gotten a crazy piper within 5km, especially when the gun is selected. A 1000 flights, a 1000 crashes, perfect record. =&arrFilter_pf[gameversion]=&arrFilter_pf[filelang]=&arrFilter_pf[aircraft]=&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC"] Check out my random mods and things
pepin1234 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 ive almost certainly gotten a crazy piper within 5km, especially when the gun is selected. nop. Thas not happen to me. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
maturin Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 It's actually the laser that glitches out the Su-25T pipper. It starts flickering back and forth hundreds of meters, even in steady dives. When you're aiming near a mountain ridge the problem is especially bad. Disabling the laser calms the pipper down. As for the S-13, if the problem was angle of attack, then it should affect the other rockets too, no?
whitehot Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 It's actually the laser that glitches out the Su-25T pipper. It starts flickering back and forth hundreds of meters, even in steady dives. When you're aiming near a mountain ridge the problem is especially bad. Disabling the laser calms the pipper down. As for the S-13, if the problem was angle of attack, then it should affect the other rockets too, no? Yeah I have the impression that the erratic pipper behaviour is due to some glitch in the laser rangefinder. Although I wouldn't be completely sure that is a glitch; this phenomenon seem to happen only at very low altitudes and shallow dive angles. The Klen rangefinding equipment on the Su-25 has been designed in the 60s/70s, so one could reasonably think it could be some effect which has been willingly modeled in the sim. The devs and testers of DCS would know abt that though and as far as i remember, no mention is made of this in the manual. About the rockets and angle of attack, don't know if it's a problem, in fact sometimes rockets like the S-13 are launched (specially by helicopters) from a slight positive pitch angle, to maximize range. DCS seems to correctly simulate this feature [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Intel i7 6700K @ 4.2, MSI M5 Z170A Gaming, NZXT X61 Kraken liquid cooler, PNY Nvidia GTX 1080 Founders Edition, 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 Mhz C15, samsung 840 evo SSD, CoolerMaster 1000W Gold rated PSU, NZXT Noctis 450 cabinet, Samsung S240SW 24' 1920x1200 LED panel, X-52 Pro Flight stick. W10 Pro x64 1809, NO antivirus EVER
104th_Cobra Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 I noted long ago the aiming sight erratic behaviour on a shallow angle aproach, when laser rangefinder is activated. In "reality", and while not having any knowledge about the real system, this is acceptable as it could be the laser sensor receiving "last" and "first" returns. In the sim, I don't know. It could be some bug related with parallax/terrain model, or in the way the system is modelled... 104th Cobra [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Griffin Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Just popped here by chance and funnily enough I remember M. Pavlov saying on Russian forum that in mountainous area they couldn't use the laser. They used airspeed, angle and the grid sight instead. I have no idea if what you are experiencing is modeled on purpose or is it a bug but it could happen in real life.
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