Thinder

Do you have a free M2 slot on your motherboard? Because they work way fqatser than SATA or external HDs...

In my experience it will not fully get rid of the Ram-to-CPU bottleneck but it will of course work, until the CPU starts to throttle down under load as was the case with mine before I changed my RAM, meaning your PC limits will be lower than with a better RAM-to-CPU bound. I replaced my Crucial BALLISTIC GAMING MEMRORY 32GB DDR4-3200 CL16 2X 16GB 2 ranks by a 4 X 8 GB of the same speed but what made the difference is the nature of the RAM itself, B.Die, 1 rank, CL14 4 X 8 3200 MHz will work best with a Ryzen, always did. The main reason is the way the Ryzen CPU controllers handles higher frequencies, they are recommanded at up to 3200 MHz by AMD for a good reason, but of course you always can stick faster RAM on those slots if you wish or O.C your RAM, I tried 3600GHz with the Crucial kit but in fact it was slightly slower, it didn't work. The higher the frequency, the more difficult it becomes for the controller to handle the RAM, B.Die is the type of chips that gives the best result with the Ryzen, those CPUs are optimized for lower latency so CL14 works better and a single rank 4 X kit take advantage of rank interleaving, the combination of those specs makes the difference in performances. Your solution would work but if you really want to get rid of the RAM bootleneck you'll need one of those kits, either Corsair or G.SKILL, there is a premium to pay in comparison with a non-optimized RAM kit but I personally gained 6.04% at 4K in CPU only, and all buses works better, even the GPU is slightly faster since CPU and GPU shares the VRAM bus even without using Smart Access Memory. It's something the previous generation of Ryzen like your Ryzen 7 3700X does very well and with experience, people started to figure out how to get the most of those CPU, the Zen 3 architecture goes even further when it comes to use of lower latency and those kits just work wonder with them too. See what you can or want to afford and chose the kit that suits your need best. B-Die Finder

The number of channels means absolutely nothing apart for the fact that it can be used on motherboard using 2 or more channels, what matters is the number of ranks per stick, your RAM kit is limited interms of efficiency, it was designed for cheap operation in replacement of DDR3, not performances. You're using a Ryzen, if you want to improve in performances, you need to give it better RAM, best for Ryzen are 4 X 8GB B.Die, CL14 single rank, 3200MHz kits, you can find them from G.SKILL and Corsair, that would solve the RAM-to-CPU bottleneck, Ryzen works better with lower latency than higher frequency. Then what is obvious here is the limitation of your GPU...

I understand your choice of the Corsair RAM, I was lucky to get my hands on a kit that is now out of stock at least with my provider but it is not the only one with those specs, and there is little to chose between the Corsair and G.SKILL kits at this level, there are B.Die CL 14/1 rank Corsair kits. B-Die Finder For one, I'm a believer in optimization for the simple reason that I don't have the luxury of wasting money on top-end gear that might or might not work well together, I have to get my all system running at its optimum and I have to say that having to send back my HP Reverb G2 for a refund proved to be a blessing because I was able to pruchase this RAM kit. The EVGA 2080ti is a good option for a second hand GPU, but even at CEX, second hand they still sell for £800.00, at this price, I'd rather wait for a RADEON 6800 to be available and sell them my 1080Ti back, they would buy from me for £331.00, which is nice and would cut the price of a new RADEON nearly by half. For the GPU make, I prioritize the same way, with Smart Access Memory in mind, since both NVIDIA and AMD write specific drivers for their systems I'll make sure my GPU is fully compatible at this level. We agree on storage speed too, M2 slot, it's working a lot faster for gaming and page files.

If keeping the cost down is one thing, going for the Ryzen 7 5800x for gaming perhaps not the smartest choice then, 32gb Corsair vengeance 3600mhz doesn't mean much, could you please be more specific? Are your sticks B.Die? One or two ranks, which configuration? Why 3600Mhz when the RAM speed has a lot less impact on performances than latency when it comes to Ryzen, especially the Zen 3 which architecture is optimized for lower latency? Which Corsair Vengeance kit are you planning? Because they come in different kits from CL14 to CL 18... You mention the Artic Liquid Freezer II Cpu cooler, but you could gain up to 5% + in CPU performances with a good RAM-to-CPU bound without over-clocking so you're basically starting by the end of optimisation, simply because your CPU controller still will throttle everything back including CPU-to-GPU VRAM bandwidth, especially with 2 ranks per sticks. If you're lucky with the chips quality lotery you can reach an increase of <> 6.93% with liquid cooling, compare this with the 6.04% I got from a proper RAM bound, which also allow the GPU to run faster simply because the controller doesn't throttle down any of the buses. In short, the higher number of ranks at higher frequencies is a lot more difficult to handle for the CPU controller, so lower latency works better, B.Die works better with Ryzen anyway, and rank interleaving works better than with a two ranks CL16 kit running at higher frequencies, reason for the controller to throttle down. Just a reminder, in order to make sure the Zen 3 CPU controllers can handle most situations (RAM) the System Memory Specification is Up to 3200MHz, so there is really little point going for a CL16 3600MHz kit if it's dual rank as it will put more load on the controller than a CL14 3200 kit which can run faster under load. There is a premium for this sort of RAM compared to a dual rank at higher latency than CL14 but it is a lot more efficient as a solution than splashing the dosh in a liquid cooler while keeping the RAM/CPU bottleneck, your clock speed will be higher but the controller will still hold back under load. The most efficient RAM I know of for the Ryzen are B.Die, one rank CL 14 and to take advantage of rank inlerleaving, single rank in 4 X stick configuration, 3200 GHz are good enough and they are designed for O.C as well is you're crazy about fequencies. You can save a lot of dosh by purchasing a MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX motherboard, update the BIOS, spend what you saved compared to a motherboard twice its price in a better RAM kit, but if your brother is only going to do gaming, then 5600X is a far better choice than the 7 5800x. Motherboard: £64.98, my CPU cost me £299.99, the G.SKILL kit £238.99 and for cooling I use an Artic Freezer 7X you can find under £15, and my cooling is excellent...

People have mitigated results with their RADEON 6000, and it has little to do with AMD, in fact, it's more often depending on the manufacturer and their drivers. Some have excellent results with their GPU some doesn't but all in all, if people chose to go for a 6800 or 6800 XT it's far from being a bad choice in the first place, it will all depend on how their system is set up, including O.S memory management, storage space and speed, RAM-to-CPU bound (mine gave me a 1.33% better GPU score in 3D Mark Pro at 4K/MSAA x 2). Consider this: The GPUs are brand new, production, quality control and distribution are affected by the pandemic so we really know too little about the real potential of the AMD RADEON GPUs right now, which isn't going to stop me purchasing a 6800, not an XT but a simple 6800, since I prep my system with optimisation before getting one it should compensate a little for the difference in raw performances. When we watch videos on a GPU X or Y we have most of the time little idea what level of optimization their benches are at, if you work at your system optimisation from the root, RAM, CPU you'll always have better performances from your GPU, even before taking memory buses increase with Smart Access Memory, the CPUs have been accessing VRAM for a while and the Zen 3 does it even better. This mean that once optimized with a proper RAM bound, the CPU controller will not throttle back anything and your GPU will work better as well, I'm with AMD now, it could have been Intel, I'll stick with an AMD build for the GPU.

It's not an argument. It's a proven FACT, Ryzen works very well with single rank and rank interlacing since Zen 2, but Zen 3 architecture also make use of lower latency and for their controlers to manage it 100%, you'll need 4 sticks of low latency (CL14) and B.die, it works even better and the gain is far from being negligible. I swaped a dual rank CL16 2 X 16GB for a G.SKILL 4 X 8GB single rank, CL14 of the same frequency (3200MHz) and immediately the CPU controller throttled up everything, when the RAM is bound to the CPU properly it works to its optimum capacity, it's the result of removing one of the bottlenecks, as simple as that. Here are the results (Crucial RAM first. G.GKILL second) Fire Strike Ultra 4K gaming with DirectX 11 3840 x 2160 (16:9) (4K) MSAA x 2 MSI Afterburner ON. AMD Ryzen Master ON; Game mode. >>>>>> Graphics score: 6 496 vs 6 583. +1.33% Physics score: 23 894 vs 25 339. + 6.04% Combined score: 3 605 vs 3 654. + 1.35%. >>>>>> https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/252271-amd-5000-series-cpu-performance-in-dcs/?do=findComment&comment=4552794 In short, instead of advising to O.C their systems, people should consider advising them to get the most of it without O.C in the first place. Best example for that is another fact; the average headroom for O.C one of the new RADEON 6800 is 5%, meaning I managed more gain for my CPU without O.C just with a good RAM bound, then the GPU runs 1.33% faster at 4K as well simply because the CPU doesn't hold anything, even if the 1080 Ti is still the source of a bottleneck with a 5600X. I'm quite sure there is a similar RAM solution for optimizing Intels as well, just google Rank Interleave and read experienced Intel users in forums and do some research work.

You need a kit of similar sticks whatever frequency you chose to use, what I meant is that the CPU controller sets the RAM frequency but it canot make slower RAM run faster, so it will throttle all RAM down to the slowest stick frequency. Since apparently you're not looking for optimization, you could fit more of the exact same 1600mhz stick you have now to replace the slowest ones.

Task manager, when the app runs, select "go to details" by right clicking, then "Set priority".

This is only the frequency possible with each RAM stick, in reality, the controllers make them run at the slowest frequency if you mix different sticks.

Correct. If you're straped for dosh, I recommand going for the MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX, It's real cheap, but high quality for the price. PCIe 3, with BIOS update it takes the Ryzen 5600X without any problem, there is an M2 slot for ultra-fast SSD where you can install games and set up page files, you can find them as bargains, literally, shop around, some providers are letting them go for as little as £79.99, roughly half the price of an MPG X570 GAMING PLUS or Asus Rog B550 Gaming. More to the point, the next generation of AMD is likely to use a different slot so there is little point splashing more dosh into something you'll have to upgrade later if you want to get one of the Zen 4 CPUs, and even if the slot remains the same, it will do the same job as a motherboard twice this price until then. https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/b450-gaming-plus-max At the end of the day, it's your money, but I chose this motherboard for its specs and I certainly don't regret it, the only thing is it is not taking the ultra-fast RAM an X570 can, still 4000/ 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE), but I'm not after high frequencies, lower latencies works a lot better with Ryzen providing you give them the right RAM.

It all depends on youre motherboard, PCIe 2/3/4? The Ryzen 5000 series are as good than the Intel, the 5600X is excellent. To take advantage of an AMD PCIe 3 motherboard you'll have of course to go for a Ryzen 5000 series CPU, you have the choice then to bound it with a RAM kit that will boost its capabilities (architecture and reduced latency) but there is a premium. https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/252271-amd-5000-series-cpu-performance-in-dcs/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-4552794 This mean also that you can gain as much as more than 5% in CPU efficiency, the CPU/GPU bound will work better and your PC will be faster overall, then go AMD RX 6800 series, either the 6800 or the 6800XT. The average O.C headroom for those CPU is 5%, so that's where a good RAM kit can be of advantage, that would be: 4 X 8GB, 1 rank, B.Die kit. I think both G.SKILL and Corsair does them, you'll have to pay the premium compared to a non AMD-optimized RAM kit like anything coming in 2 X 16/2 rank but the gain is equal to higher to what you can get from O.C your GPU. What is important are the bounds between RAM, CPU and GPU, not necessarily their specific individual specs, if you have a 5 to 10% bottleneck, everything you expect from a GPU or CPU 10% faster is nil, there is a real need to ballance your system by making ther best choice possible before purchasing and apparently, due to the way the Ryzen 5000 are working, it start with the RAM.

It would have help to know which CPU you have, we don't even know if you have 8 or 11GTB of VRAM and it makes a difference, mine has 11GB and run VR just fine at reasonable settings using Afterburner (without touching the voltage), what matters isn't really the GPU but the bound between the RAM/CPU/GPU. You got more than one bus that can create a bottleneck and when we see that some people have more than 10% of it and wonder why their PC performance is low it's obvious some doesn't care optimizing their system in the first place. Best example I can give you, I gained at all levels including graphics (although marginal) and combined only by bounding the best RAM to my Ryzen 5600X: https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/252271-amd-5000-series-cpu-performance-in-dcs/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-4552794 >>>>>> Graphics score: 6 496 vs 6 583. +1.33% Physics score: 23 894 vs 25 339. + 6.04% Combined score: 3 605 vs 3 654. + 1.35%. >>>>>> As you can see, I could easily have chosen to splash dosh on a water cooled AMD 6800 only to find out that it belong to the average which has a 5% headroom for Over Clocking, but instead I have RAM which gives me more oooomph for less money (although there is a premium for this kind of RAM) but got my result without O.Cing my system. So my tip would be: Optimizing your system by where it all starts, that would be the CPU/RAM/GPU in the order, if you have a PCIe3 motherboard for Intel/NVIDIA or AMD stick with the same for best bound, because they both work at optimizing their drivers for this purpose, using PCIe3/4 and memory bandwidth, that's where the bottlenecks are.

My RAM frequency didn't change, it's still 3200 MHz from a Crucial 2 X 16GB CL16 kit, but the lower latency of the Ryzen 5600X arhitecture is enhenced by the CL14 RAM sticks, B.Die also works very well with Ryzens and with 4 single rank sticks you got rank interleaving which the 5600X controller handles rather well. That's the reason for the gain, not the speed.

I gained 6.04% in 3D Mark Pro Physic only by changing RAM (B.Die, 4 X 1 rank, CL 14) that's 4K settings using Ryzen Master and Afterburner without touching voltages, even the GPU runs faster, I have no plan to O.C CPU or GPU, instead I chose to potimize my system first, my next upgrade will be an AMD RX 6800, not even an XT that's the reason for optimization. https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/252271-amd-5000-series-cpu-performance-in-dcs/?do=findComment&comment=4552794 I think that giving your system the best environment possible to run at its optimum can do more than O.Cing it, that's O.S, including background apps and page files, storage speed (M2 SSD), good cooling, bound between RAM/CPU/GPU etc, every little % matters when you're limited by your budget. After that, if you want to spend money in watercoolers for O.C it's a choice but personally I don't have the budget for it.

Considering the fact that the average headroom for an AMD RX 6800 GPU O.C is 5% it would be rather good.

Personally, I wouldn't get read of the HOTAS but instead use a touch controller for all the knobs and buttons I'd need to use. DCS will eventually improve in VR but it's overall performances which needs improving, waiting for the Vulkan engine...

Yeah, I don't work in 3D anymore so my specs are 100% focused on gaming, reason why I chosed the 5600X and not a CPU with more Cores, I will get an AMD RX 6800 to replace my 1080Ti, not really an XT that's why optimization is a priotity to me. Your stals looks good.

OK, I overseen the fact that you could be on a budget, I personally went for a set of G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZRG.SKILL to replace a Crucial 2 X 16 L6 3200 GB, the gain in 3D Mark Physic is 6.04%, my GPU also gained a bit with +1.33%, combined score too + 1.35%. In short, for an AMD system, B.Die, single Rank and CL14 works best, reason why I didn't focuse on the frequency instead, prefering lower latency to take full advantage of the CPU architecture and gain in latency, in your case, you might have made the best choice considering your budget, amount of RAM needed to do your 3D work and speed. About your choice of GPU, if you go for an Intel then I'd suggest that you make your whole system Intel/NVIDIA, both manufacturers are boosting CPU-to-GPU bus width and I'm sure they have native drivers optimized for their own system, you might loose a little if you build an hybrid, I think your RAM is gonna work just fine with an Intel system although you might want to check compatibility. Another thing I forgot to mention since you play DCS, have you considered using your motherboard M2 slot? I got myself a 500GB Samsung V-NAND 970 EVO Plus SSD and it runs at 3,500 MB/sec and 3,300 MB/sec Read.Write, I checked the speed myself, it's nearly ten times faster than my SATA, once you installed DCS and your page files on it, you'll notice the gain too.

I don't know much about Intel/NVIDIA sets today but for AMD, you might want to have a look at a couple of specs: For the RAM, B.Die works wonder with AMD processors, Corsair and G.SKILL make them too, your kit of choice also show single rank, which helps though timing is not the best at CL 17. B-Die Finder Unless you really want to stick to 64GB, you might want to have a look at G.SKILL latest kits: Trident Z Neo DDR4-3800 CL14-16-16-36 32GB (16GBx2) The difference between 32GB and 64 GB might not be as great as you think but for gaming, especially DCS in VR, I'd go for the G.SKILL kit providing I wanted to spend that kind of money, G.Skill advise against mixing two kits even from the same batch for cause of chips compatibility, reason I mention only one 2 X 16GB kit. The RTX 3080 is a great card but I think you'd be better off going for an all AMD or all Intel/NVIDIA system, they all are optimizing their combos and there are benefits in sticking to one system instead of building hybrids.

If having to change hands really is a problem for you, there is an alternative for this...

Resizable BAR Tested with Intel - The Power of Boosted Memory Access. Published: 30th January 2021 https://overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/resizable_bar_tested_with_intel_-_the_power_of_boosted_memory_access/1

TAKE YOUR TROLLING PARTIES ELSEWHERE. CHEERS.

Oh excuse me. I made it clear that my system already supports the feature given an available RX 6800, so instead of arguing and giving absolutely no alternative but posting funny pics for teletubbies, you'd better dig out and figure how accoring to you gerniuses, DCS developers are going to increase Vulkan FPS for everyone using PCIe 3, which might well be the vast majority of users today, so much for "emerging" and harm chair specialists. Get a grip, not everyone talk about what they have no experience of, and you're not "aware", you claim to be for the developers, how arrogant, and still have no argument against apart being argumentative and taking your mediocrity for a standard, all you got is a taste for personal attacks, guess who I take seriously here. Not you... Clearly you haven't got the drift yet... Let me guess, you're the kind of geezer who call 13% better performances meaningless but will pronto go rave about how he get this same increase by O.C his system to frack, or cry out when he doesn't get more FPS, hilarious, as if writing a few lines of code to support a set of drivers was " taking major developmental ques". Poor boy. Now please vaccate to the knitting forum, perhaps they love to be trolled there...