Clogger

Ignoring AP systems for a moment and just concentrating on basic flying and trimming; Spring center stick + Central pos trimmer: I don't see the benefit of the hold trim and maneuver that some people are suggesting, when you hit and hold trim you are still working on your last center point set, you can verify this by looking at the control helper. It is only when you release the trim button that a new center point is made. If you trim for fast level flight and are holding trim and then doing turns , you are basically making your life more difficult as you are working against the game helper for spring center sticks. If you let go of the trimmer mid turn for example you are now stuffed as you have set a funky offset. You are increasing your work load really as before release you have to get the bird level and stable again and then let go. Once you trim for level flight (with the speed you want) if you want to turn, do the bank but don't press any trim, once you have done the turn (also with any pedal and collective movt) you should be more or less still in trim (if you maintained speed etc..), that's the point of trimming IMHO, if you are a little off when level just nudge where you need and tap trim again or you can also use the trim hat. You are free in the turn do what ever you want as when you let go of the stick (or let it go back to center) you know exactly what trim state it is going to be in with out the aid of the control display. You don't always have to be in constant perfect trim, remember the trim point is just the center point you are working from. If you want to speed up a bit or drop height just hold some forward cyclic and then when you are happy release the cyclic (slowly under control) and you are back again and be more or less to stable flight (with out touching the trimmer) You don't have to be constantly trimming, the Hind is very stable (in DCS at least) To clarify I am not saying one method vs the other is wrong, what ever works for the individual, you can also do a bit of both methods.

Not sure what the guy in the vid is doing but here is how I fly. I can fly with Yaw AP on or off, If I fly with it on I don't have to do anything special. In turns I coordinate the rudder with the cyclic. You have to give slow rudder inputs other wise you get the warning light on the dash about the dampener. I don't re-set the cyclic or hold the trim button , I pretty much only tap trim (others mileage may vary). I do not have the helper rudder trimmer enabled in the special menu, I think this would cause further complications. If you are doing lots of complicated big turns, then its better to leave it off. For gentle flying I leave the Yaw AP on. The Yaw AP also works very well in the approach to landing I have found. On reading articles about the Hind, I believe it has micro switches in the pedals so when the pilot gives a rudder input it overrides the AP, it seems to me when you press a pedal it is doing this in game. You can also tap trim in level flight i.e let go of the cyclic move rudder to the direction you want and then tap trim and it should settle there if working with in the AP limits. It is a mechanical system so sometimes it can get funky, which is why I would like to have a separate bind for centering the pedals (not sure how in the IRL Hind they do this) My issue is when you turn of the AP or take over from the AI and the pedals are left in the offset position until you re set trim which also re sets cyclic trim (not ideal) I have added a separate bind request for re setting pedals in the wish list area, I think this would help a lot, Pls give a like or comment on the topic to help it get noticed

The solution for this is pretty simple; Can we have a separate bind to cancel any rudder trim that is not tied to the cyclic. Currently a double tap of the trim button will re-set the pedals and cyclic, perhaps make the double tap for rudder trim only or double tapping re-set trim does the pedals etc.. The Yaw AP works really most of the time but as it is a mechanical system it can get funky, also when taking over from the AI pilot there will be an offset on the pedals (even if Yaw AP is off). Being able to re-center the pedals separately would avoid a bad situation becoming worse.

Very simple, to re-centre pedals after turning off Yaw AP or if taking over from the AI pilot the rudder pedals will have an offset. The only way to re center the pedals is to re-set the trim which also resets any cyclic trim. This can lead to some dicey situations. Can we have a separate bind to cancel rudder trim and re-center the pedals. Currently double tapping trim will reset all trim, could the double tap be made to only cancel pedal trim perhaps ??

If want to try and replicate it, set a training mission on a map with out any assets as the track files are smaller than 5mb. To be honest I happy with how the AP works , I would just like a way to reset the rudder trim that is not tied to the cyclic trim.

I also started a topic on this as I was finding the workings of the Yaw AP strange. The Yaw AP mode works fine, the problem is when you want to turn it off. The last known setting of the AP channel is left fixed on the pedals and the only way to center the pedals is to do a trim re-set which also re-sets cyclic trim, as mentioned this can be dangerous if near the ground. The other issue is when switching seats, if the AI does a pedal offset these will be left in when taking back over from the AI (even if Yaw AP is off) , again the only way to reset the pedals is to re-set trim. A simple solution would be to have a separate way to cancel pedal trim, that is not tied to cyclic trim. i.e the double tap of trimmer instead of resetting all the trim just does pedals.

Topic states ED needs a track file, please find attached. Flight: Hot start, Hover check with out Yaw AP enabled, slow fly to another hover spot, wait until stable and then engage Yaw AP. Let the Hind settle (AP holds tail with feet off the pedals), disengage Yaw AP, Pedals remain offset as discussed in this thread. I land and then re center pedals by means of trim reset which also re sets trim on cyclic. Hind Hover Yaw AP Test.trk

Thanks for the info. So with that in mind, yes I understand but how does the IRL pilot tell the FCS to adjust the mechanical offset if the Yaw AP fails then ? Is this a function of the micro switches I read about ?? It surely cant be that if the Yaw AP fails that a new center point is made mechanically it remains there permanently ? I assume then this may be why ED implemented the system to re-centre the pedals being tied to cyclic trim re set, this is an issue IMHO. A good example thanks.

Thanks for the info, but this is not the issue I have. I understand how the Yaw AP works and the FCS will offset the pedals. I mentioned that IRL you would ghost the pedals but even with spring centered pedals this works fine as a new center is being created for you. For the most part it works very well. My issue is when you turn off Yaw AP , the pedals are stuck with the last offset set by the Yaw AP despite the cheat display showing that Yaw AP is centered and off and on the left hand control display you can see the stuck offset rudder as well as seeing your pedals offset. The only way to zero the pedals is to hit re-set trim so turning off Yaw AP is a 2 step procedure , i.e turn off Yaw AP and then re-set trim. Is this how the real Hind behaves ? I am gonna say no. I am gonna assume, that turning off AP IRL would release the mechanical offset on the pedals. While in game it is being left there or stuck. If this is due to the Hind having those micro switches on the pedals (read that somewhere) then this creates a problem for simmers as we dont have those. A simple work around could be when turning off Yaw AP when you touch the pedals (or an input is being applied) this removes the mechanical stop instead of having to trim reset, it would like telling the real hind that the pilot is taking control of the rudder (if this is how the real Hind does work). Having to reset my cyclic trim to center pedals or remove the offset creates issues with a non FFB joystick. The issue IMHO is simple, 1) IRL does turning off the AP leave the mechanical offset ? 2) IRL does hitting reset trim on the cyclic cancel the mechanical offset provided by the AP or how does it actually work? Depending on those answers, it may be a case of that home sim equipment can not replicate the Hind 100% accurately (micro switches on pedals etc..) and perhaps ED chose to model it this way to help ? If that is the case the way it is modeled creates issues IMHO and perhaps a re look at how to work better with home sim equipment is needed. i.e just tapping your rudder after turning off Yaw AP releases the mechanical offset or maybe the double tap trim would be used to center pedals (just ideas). This would be a special option tab just like central position trimer. Just another option that is not messing with cyclic trim. This is all dependent on how the real bird works and how ED has decided to model those systems, it could be a case that turning off Yaw AP is meant to centre the pedals back to zero input and for some reason this is not happening.

The effect it will have is more than likely reduce in game performance on his system.

Ok so played around a lot with this today, read what I could online and watched some more vids. From reading , the croc has micro switches on the pedals, so the pilot ghosts the pedals unless he wants to use the pedals i.e for a turn I assume. Conclusion, perhaps you are meant to fly the Croc with AP Yaw enabled from the ground ?? I just left AP Yaw on full time now before take off, It makes Taxi a breeze, it will correct on the hover check and also input the correct pedal for transition in to forward flight. It will also correct on descents into the hover. I have VKB pedals, I leave my feet off unless I want to use the pedals. In the Hover you can still correct heading , let of go of the pedals and the AP will take of the rest. You do have to make sure to do coordinated turns with the rudder and cyclic other wise you will be fighting the AP yaw. And sometimes if crabbing you may have to input a little more rudder and hold it there. I still believe if you turn of AP Yaw or all the auto pilot systems the pedals should centre , with out having to reset trim. I believe this could be a bug.

I had the same issue, TM warthog, I also disabled sync. Was affecting other modules as well.

RVL, You shouldn't need to limit power unless you are also thermal throttling which on a desktop shouldn't be an issue. Rubbra is on a laptop, the reason he is losing performance is because his system on high power is thermal throttling.

While I am happy to be corrected, sorry I can't see this being how the real bird works. Once you turn off Yaw AP the pedals should move/stay to what ever position the virtual pilot is holding them in. If you had FFB pedals, the pedals would remain where they are when Yaw AP is turned off but if you applied a new input they would stay at that new input, they should not revert back to that last trimmed position of the AP or be stuck like what we are seeing if you take your feet off the pedals with spring centres. In the real bird or with FFB the pilots feet are gonna be ghosting the inputs of the AP, once you hit Yaw AP off you would naturally take up the pressure (if any) and hold that input. I assume this is why the Hind has pedal straps maybe ?? To make ghosting movement easier. If we are saying what we are currently seeing in game is accurate, then when turning off Yaw AP the FCS system is creating a new centre point for the pedals ?? Even though you telling the Helo you don't want any help from the gyros. The pilot would then surely be fighting the pedals ?? This would mean that cancelling Yaw AP is a 2 stage procedure, turn it off and also reset trim on cyclic to cancel the rudder input. Perhaps that could be the case and perhaps using Yaw AP in auto hover is not recommended even in real life ?? What I believe should be happing is this, if you have spring pedals, you have your feet off as you can't ghost the AP movement by feel, when you turn off Yaw AP the pedals should go back to centre I.e back to the control input being sent. All you would do to prevent a spin is put in some right rudder on cancelling the AP if in a hover or if in forward flight you just take back up the input to prevent slip in x wind if needed. I honestly think it is a simple case that the game is not releasing the last control offset sent by the AP when turning it off.

Noticed a few possible bugs here: A) On Air start missions the Hind will add some yaw corrections to the rudder even if rudder assists are disabled, I have to reset trim to cancel the input other wise they will stay offset. This happens in self made missions and the instant freeflights where you start in active pause. General Yaw autopliot: B)If engaging the yaw auto pilot once the pedals are offset these will not return to center when yaw auto pilot disengaged. You have to reset trim. This is not a problem in forward flight but if using the Yaw auto pilot in auto hover it can become a problem, as when you want to center the pedals after YAP disengaged you have to do a trim reset which also cancels the cyclic trim. This can lead to some messy situations. Shouldn't the pedals return to Centre after Yaw auto pilot is turned off ?? It is no longer getting inputs from the FCS. Turning off the pedal damper has no effect. C) If taking over from the AI pilot the pedals can be offset (regardless of YAW AP) , only way to centre pedals is to reset trim which again is tied to cyclic, not ideal if low and slow. I do not have any rudder assistance selected in game menus and all game avionics modes etc.. are de selected. I do not have sync hotas at mission start as the latest update is creating issues with the joystick (TM HOG), the stick will go full forward and to the left on mission start (not a Hind issue) happens in other birds until I force back control and then it centers, but even if do have sync selected and let the cyclic do its thing the pedals are are still the same as part A on mission air starts. Edit: Added to tidy up the topic. So more playing about today and to highlight the issue I am talking about. I have been testing the AI handover between seats and as mentioned in this thread the pedals create issues under certain cumstances. Simple Test: (no rudder helper selected in game options) Go into a stable hover , switch to front seat, let AI settle the hover, switch back to the pilots seat and then perform a 90 degree turn to the left and maintain stable hover (something you might actually do) Result: When you take back over the pilots seat the all the controls controls are trimmed, obviously this is good as you don't want to crash on take over. The problem becomes the pedals, when I do 90 degree turn I am fighting this offset left by the AI, once my turn is complete I am having to dab left rudder now to maintain a heading. While doable this starts becoming extremely awkward as my brain/muscle memory is telling me I need to right rudder in a hover plus I am only having to lightly feather left which is also awkward. My pedals being center spring (VKB's) are now completely out of wack to the helo controls. To combat this you can reset trim, however as mentioned already the trim reset also zeros cyclic. I have managed to catch it and go back into hover but again this is making a simple task more difficult, resetting cyclic trim near the ground is not a good idea really. Would this be an issue at 300m in forward flight, no, but it can be an issue else where. The above is linked to the same prob with turning off Yaw AP, your pedals are stuck until you reset which cancels any cyclic trim. While resetting the pedals may not be accurate neither is the current system but rather it is just tied to re-setting cyclic. Possible Solution: I would assume there are different ways to to implement how the pedals work but adding a extra separate bind to re set the pedals would be easiest I would guess. This way you do not have to change the current behavior of the 2 ways to reset trim (double tap trim or trim reset) You could double tap set-trim to reset all, current re-set trim could still be used to cancel both cyclic and pedals, plus the extra reset pedals only needs be used if a player wants. With those 3 options it would cover all bases IMHO with out effecting currently how the module works. I would hazard a guess for those that like flying with the rudder helper, having a separate pedal re-set could also be useful. With the above , on my cyclic I would map ''set-trim'' and ''pedal reset trim'' as "set-trim'' does 2 functions.

External spot lights are also missing some binds.

Thanks, Normally 1.4 I turned down to 1.2 no difference. The up lights seem to be a shade of yellow and the down lights seem to be a very light green.

Hi Guys, landing gear lights. Playing in VR. When the gear is up I can clearly see the lights telling me so. When Down the lights are very hard to see unless the cockpit is in full shadow or dark. In normal daylight the lights do not show up at all for me. Can we up the brightness of these or can the light color be changed to the same temperature as when they are up ?? making it clear that gear is down and functional. Thanks.

Great work guys the Hind is epic, having loads of fun Noticed a visual bug. Playing in VR. Happens every time I load the bird, not just a one off. When the pilots door is open, part of the wire above the hydraulic ram stays floating in the cockpit. When closed the wire re-connects. I have attached screen grabs to show. Thanks Guys.

Well they did just that, 2.7.1 is now stable.

Ok so I updated to 2.7 stable earlier and had a play, while no means exhaustive thought I would share instead of only bitching lol I stuck to instant action action missions and picked some that had denser cloud formations. The clouds do take a little more horsepower to run so I lowered my PD from 1.5 to 1.4 (Rift S), this didn't seem to make any visual difference in the cockpit so a few extra frames got back for free I guess. I messed with various settings graphic settings, kept them and then only changed cloud quality in each mission. Planes used Hornet, Viper and Tomcat. Caucasus-Landing (Day time)-Viper, overall no mater what cloud setting used this mission did not look good, the whole Horizon had shimmer and haze, clouds did not look good at all. Caucasus-free flight-Tomcat- setting clouds to ultra reduced all shimmer , clouds looked good. Below ultra I started to see haze/shimmer Syria-free flight-Hornet - This mission has some pretty dense cloud formations, setting clouds to ultra reduced all shimmer and started to look pretty epic. The Ultra setting is expensive in terms of performance though for me, on the lower cloud settings the FPS was significantly higher like way higher. My take away, the clouds need some work (I am sure it is on the list), I guess it depends of the type of formation but for any of them to look good on my hardware they need to be on Ultra and some look iffy even on ultra, but on the Syria mission they did look good. On the lower settings I couldn't really see an disenable difference between low-standard and high, it's only when setting to Ultra that things start looking a lot better. The lower 3 settings are unusable for me. Clouds do lack slightly less detail compared to the on screen mirror , In ref to the above this is my only real time visual gauge, and rendering in a HMD is off course going to look better in more powerful head sets like the G2 I assume. The issue I can see for myself at least is for Helos (which I fly a lot), you are closer to the ground and FPS is lower, admittedly you aint cloud surfing in a Helo but having more FPS drains in the background isn't ideal. Yes you can make missions with very light clouds or clear skies which I will do for learning the Hind but I don't particularly want to have copy missions to lower the cloud density or mess with campaigns. I think it would be nice to have Ultra clouds not be so expensive in terms of performance and also the lower end cloud settings become useable with out the haze and visual distortion, if not for those on lower end hardware this may fast make the game run like a pig in VR. I think I am on the limits now with a 1080ti + 8700k, ideally I would not run the clouds at ultra, no different to lowering other settings I guess. Hardware upgrades at the moment are not exactly easy with the pricing out there !! yikes lol If there is VR feedback from others that would great, especially those with more technical know how within DCS. I am sure it all helps make a better product.

Thanks, I thought as much.

Hey Bignewy, I understand there is a timeline , but I am a little disappointed that there are still issues with VR cloud rendering in the latest Beta and 2.7 has gone stable. I can't speak for anyone else but I use stable to avoid these sorts of things. Are the clouds fixed for stable or am I gonna see exactly the same thing as Beta if I update stable ?? I would like to use the hind in stable but unless I update that isn't going to happen. I started a topic about it, your feedback would be welcome. 2.7 Stable VR Clouds, what's going on ? - VR Bugs - ED Forums (eagle.ru)

No it is not the same picture, the only way you can see what the head set is actually displaying is by looking through a headset. I am happy with the res and FPS my HMD outputs.

That's great news , so were you running open beta before or is this the first time you have seen the clouds in VR ? What hardware are you using ?? In the latest open Beta I am not seeing good cloud rendering, i.e like others have stated a lot of shimmer/haze so I am reluctant to update my stable version as I am under the impression that the latest open Beta and the new stable launch are the same ?? I posted a topic asking such, which can be found here for those interested. 2.7 Stable VR Clouds, what's going on ? - VR Bugs - ED Forums (eagle.ru)