Floyd1212

Although this would be a very tricky feat for sure, I don’t think requiring a full shut down to add or remove the FCR is a good idea. For the same reason that hot starts are an option, and rearming only takes 30 seconds, not everyone has the desire (or time) to play everything out in real speed. You could also argue that bringing back an aircraft with a missing wing and an engine out should take more than 170 seconds to repair.

I would get this sometimes over the past couple months, but haven’t seen it recently. Nothing would happen for a few seconds, but the commands would stack and then all come through at once. I feel like they mentioned it was fixed in a recent patch. Are you up-to-date?

Did you look at your axis binds for the CPG seat and make sure there are no duplicates happening there?

Yeah, I checked mine as well and I don't have mine set to a "slider". I also run the Virpil collective. Maybe this axis is setup differently on the back-end to always act as a slider? However, that being said, @dr_hippo there still may be something fishy with your collective axis. In one of the screenshots you are showing 80% torque with your controls indicator showing it is below halfway within it's range. Though we all know that the torque output and collective position is not a 1:1 relationship, this seems a little unusual. When you move your collective from 0 to 100%, does it move across the entire range of the axis outlined in yellow above? Again, this may not be related to the rolling issue, but still something worth looking into.

Are you switching to the front seat at all while playing, or getting the aircraft started up? It might be worth checking the binds for CPG in case there is a double-bind there. Do you have any other controllers that might wake-up later and be “seen” by DCS, like an Xbox controller?

My guess was that you were using a HOTAS with a split throttle, and half the throttle is bound as your "collective" axis, and the other half was bound to "cyclic roll" axis. But maybe not. If you bring up the Controls Indicator, are you seeing movement of the cyclic roll axis while you are adjusting the collective?

I'll see if I can capture a track as well. Out of curiosity, what are you able to do with a track that is demonstrating a multi-crew phenomenon? If you take over the track from the back seat, doesn't George assume control in the front seat and mess up any target tracking the player CPG was doing?

Yeah, sounds like a rogue binding issue. What are you using for your collective axis?

That's what I get for playing it at fast speed then, as I didn't even see that activity. Short tracks that get directly to the problem is what is helpful.

It does help, a bit. It's like giving someone directions to drive somewhere and then take Exit 30. Knowing it's Exit 30 means you can slow down and be prepared to look for it when you pass Exit 29. But in this case, there is still a bit of a drive before you are even close. Actually, this is all a moot point as I watched the track again and gave it a little longer and the track ended with nothing happening. The track ran from 5:03:00 to 5:39:40

No. After watching it for 5 minutes with nothing happening but AWACs flying around and some panning and zooming on the F10 map, I gave up. There is no "skip to this time" feature when playing back a track. You have to run the mission (at 10x or 20x speed, etc.) until you get to the action. How long were you in the air before the stated issue occurred?

I was sooo looking forward to this feature, but it does not seem to be working properly for me. At least, not in some situations. When I open an existing .miz and select a group to rotate in place, nothing happens. When I copy and paste that group into a new location, and try to rotate the pasted group, nothing happens. When I create a new group from scratch, rotation seems to work properly on that group. When I select both an old group and a fresh group and try to rotate everything, nothing happens. It's like the old group is anchored in a way that won't let it rotate. Statics seem to rotate fine. Then, it gets really weird when I select an old group that won't rotate, and a bunch of statics, and try to rotate the whole thing. Some subset of the statics will start to rotate at an exponential rate, based on how far from zero you drag the rotation dial, until you reach 180 degrees, then they rotate in the other direction. Is this the intended behavior of this long-awaited feature? Attached is this simple .miz with one active group on the left, and a bunch of statics on the right. Can anyone get this to work properly? Multi-Select Test.miz

@Derbroomaster I downloaded your track and started watching it. After about 5 minutes of playback at 20x speed, it didn't look like you had even slotted into an airframe yet. And once slotted in, it looked like you had a 160km flight to your targets. Until ED comes up with a way to capture track "snips" that are short and to the point, long tracks like this are not going to get much attention. If you want to try and provide something useful that the devs can work with as an actual bug report, try a short single-player mission at the firing range, and see if you can get George to misbehave the way you are experiencing in your regular game sessions.

Can you check the permissions on that shared file? Getting "Access Denied" message.

George LOS Caucasus.miz Well, my last post ended up not displaying any of my text, just the images, but you get the idea. 10 vehicles in a row on Caucasus and he can see 8 of them when they are BTR-82A and all 10 of them when they are T-72B. The .miz is included for the devs to play with.

I see what you are saying, but I'm not sure I agree with the assessment. I replaced the S-60 with an Strela, and also added a T-90 and BTR in the same area, and now he is seeing those units as well. Maybe an issue with the hit boxes on all of them? (There is a 4th unit there with the other 3 that he doesn't see, but that might just be a matter of placement.) Here is the .miz if you want to play around with it. George LOS through a hill.miz

Out of curiosity, I went back and removed the trees to see if there was some part of the BTR visible sticking out beyond the building, but being hidden by the tree foliage, but that doesn't look to be the case. This might be a case of the occlusion geometry (or whatever it is called) of that building type being a simple box, and doesn't include the A/C units and other decorations on the roof that we can't see through.

Here is a track of George spotting a target through a building. In this case, there are (5) BTR-82A on the incline beyond that industrial complex. He can see only one of the five units there, but he probably shouldn't be able to spot any of them. I built this mission from scratch, placing the player and enemy units in the approximate position that they were from the original Liberation mission when I saw it happen. I also included the .miz so the devs might be able to figure out which building type that is. George LOS through a building.trk George LOS through buildings.miz

Here is a simple track of George being able to spot and "track" a target through a hill. He says "tracking target", though he cannot establish an IAT track through the hill. To create this, I took the Liberation .miz where I encountered this the other night and deleted pretty much everything else in the mission, including all the scripts and triggers, and placed an Apache at the right spot to recreate the situation in isolation. Sure enough, he can detect the units without having valid LOS. George LOS through a hill.trk

We were having a discussion in another thread about how George is a little OP with his super-human ability to detect targets through trees, buildings, and hills, and it was suggested that I create a new thread as a separate bug report demonstrating the problem; so here it is... These screenshots were captured in the same MP mission on Syria, which was a Liberation campaign running on a dedicated server. I attempted to view my track file that was generated for this flight, but it was corrupt, so I have none to share with this report. (This was likely because my flight ended with my DCS crashing after viewing the F10 map, but alas, that is for a different bug report.) Example 1 - George detecting targets through trees This is a common occurrence for me on a daily basis. In this screenshot I am approaching the target area at 100 knots and relatively low, and George sees some targets in the vicinity of where I ask him to look. After selecting one of the targets from the list he presents me, he locks onto this target through many layers of trees. The vehicle in question is beyond that tree-line, out in the open, not nestled in the trees themselves. Not only does he know the target is there, he gets a solid IAT track and as lasing the target through the trees. If I were to tell him to engage this target, he would do so, and would have a 99% probability of kill based on where he is lasing the target relative to the "outline" of the vehicle. Example 2 - George detecting targets through buildings In this example, I am in a stable hover, and I have told George to search in an area for targets. After selecting a target from his list, he slews the TADS over to this guy and finally settles in on this spot where a static enemy is presumably on that hill beyond the buildings and trees. In this case, he does not get an IAT lock, and I'm not sure he would even engage this target if I told him to. If he did, I suspect the missile would impact the building he is lasing. However, the point is that George knew the target was there when he should not, considering it is obscured by buildings. Example 3 - George detecting targets through a hill In this example, I am in a stable hover, and asked George to look for targets in an area we have been attacking some AA units. At first I was confused with what George had found since I cannot see anything where he finally settled his TADS, and then it occurred to me there might be a hill between me and the target. In the first frame, my altitude is 530 ft AGL when he sees the target through the hill. In the second frame I start to come straight up and a buddy has a missile impact beyond the hill and you can see a cloud of dust. In the 3rd frame I am at 870 ft AGL and the top half of the unit he had spotted is now visible and he has established an IAT lock. Edit: It was mentioned in the other thread that George has some sort of "memory" as to where units may have been spotted previously? I had been flying in this area previously and we took out some of the AA units, then I retreated and setup in a hover outside of 5km. Could the unit George spotted through the hill have been "seen" previous to this when I was flying closer? If anyone else has video or tracks of similar instances of George detecting targets that should be obscured from his view, please add them here. I will try to put together a simple mission with targets in a test range and see if I can reproduce these results, and share the track file here.

Yep. This bug has been present for quite a while. Or If it was fixed at some point, it has regressed and come back in one of the last few patches.

@Raptor9 I was able to capture some screenshots of all 3 situations mentioned above. You want them in here, or start a new thread?

I'll be sure to grab some screenshots, and possibly tracks the next time I see this happen, though the tracks may not be very useful during a long MP session. In the instance of "seeing through a hill" that happened to me just the other day, there may have been one pixel of a vehicle above the hill, with 99% of the vehicle obscured. And I feel like maybe some buildings but not others can be spotted through. Again, I will get some evidence of this happening the next time I see it. As for seeing through the trees, this happens quite a lot. To my eye, the vehicle is completely concealed by the trees, and I am sitting in a hover. George not only knows the vehicle is there, but will IAT lock it without having any aspect of the vehicle to work with, via TV or FLIR. I tell him to launch the missile and it comes in from above and shacks the vehicle perfectly, which means not only can he see the vehicle, but the laser penetrates right through the tree. The only thing you see after that is a plume of smoke rising up beyond the treeline. I understand the complexities of properly occluding George's LOS based on the tree foliage, and not just the trunks, but this has always been the way it works in DCS, and is one of the more immersion-breaking aspects of using George. Sometimes I Store the location of the units to come back and attack them from a different angle, but more often than not, I just take them out from behind their tree cover and move on.

Yeah, before George gets the ability to constantly be searching for targets on his own, they need to fix his miraculous eyesight. No more ability to lock-up a vehicle that is totally obscured by trees, buildings, or even hills. And if his head is down in the TEDAC targeting a group off in the distance, he can't also be telling you about a group that is sneaking up on you from your 9 o'clock.

Or type in the MGRS coordinates as a TGT point, and make that your Acquisition Source.. Most JTAC scripts provide the coordinates of the target they are lasing, but maybe not all.