Floyd1212

George LOS Caucasus.miz Well, my last post ended up not displaying any of my text, just the images, but you get the idea. 10 vehicles in a row on Caucasus and he can see 8 of them when they are BTR-82A and all 10 of them when they are T-72B. The .miz is included for the devs to play with.

I see what you are saying, but I'm not sure I agree with the assessment. I replaced the S-60 with an Strela, and also added a T-90 and BTR in the same area, and now he is seeing those units as well. Maybe an issue with the hit boxes on all of them? (There is a 4th unit there with the other 3 that he doesn't see, but that might just be a matter of placement.) Here is the .miz if you want to play around with it. George LOS through a hill.miz

Out of curiosity, I went back and removed the trees to see if there was some part of the BTR visible sticking out beyond the building, but being hidden by the tree foliage, but that doesn't look to be the case. This might be a case of the occlusion geometry (or whatever it is called) of that building type being a simple box, and doesn't include the A/C units and other decorations on the roof that we can't see through.

Here is a track of George spotting a target through a building. In this case, there are (5) BTR-82A on the incline beyond that industrial complex. He can see only one of the five units there, but he probably shouldn't be able to spot any of them. I built this mission from scratch, placing the player and enemy units in the approximate position that they were from the original Liberation mission when I saw it happen. I also included the .miz so the devs might be able to figure out which building type that is. George LOS through a building.trk George LOS through buildings.miz

Here is a simple track of George being able to spot and "track" a target through a hill. He says "tracking target", though he cannot establish an IAT track through the hill. To create this, I took the Liberation .miz where I encountered this the other night and deleted pretty much everything else in the mission, including all the scripts and triggers, and placed an Apache at the right spot to recreate the situation in isolation. Sure enough, he can detect the units without having valid LOS. George LOS through a hill.trk

We were having a discussion in another thread about how George is a little OP with his super-human ability to detect targets through trees, buildings, and hills, and it was suggested that I create a new thread as a separate bug report demonstrating the problem; so here it is... These screenshots were captured in the same MP mission on Syria, which was a Liberation campaign running on a dedicated server. I attempted to view my track file that was generated for this flight, but it was corrupt, so I have none to share with this report. (This was likely because my flight ended with my DCS crashing after viewing the F10 map, but alas, that is for a different bug report.) Example 1 - George detecting targets through trees This is a common occurrence for me on a daily basis. In this screenshot I am approaching the target area at 100 knots and relatively low, and George sees some targets in the vicinity of where I ask him to look. After selecting one of the targets from the list he presents me, he locks onto this target through many layers of trees. The vehicle in question is beyond that tree-line, out in the open, not nestled in the trees themselves. Not only does he know the target is there, he gets a solid IAT track and as lasing the target through the trees. If I were to tell him to engage this target, he would do so, and would have a 99% probability of kill based on where he is lasing the target relative to the "outline" of the vehicle. Example 2 - George detecting targets through buildings In this example, I am in a stable hover, and I have told George to search in an area for targets. After selecting a target from his list, he slews the TADS over to this guy and finally settles in on this spot where a static enemy is presumably on that hill beyond the buildings and trees. In this case, he does not get an IAT lock, and I'm not sure he would even engage this target if I told him to. If he did, I suspect the missile would impact the building he is lasing. However, the point is that George knew the target was there when he should not, considering it is obscured by buildings. Example 3 - George detecting targets through a hill In this example, I am in a stable hover, and asked George to look for targets in an area we have been attacking some AA units. At first I was confused with what George had found since I cannot see anything where he finally settled his TADS, and then it occurred to me there might be a hill between me and the target. In the first frame, my altitude is 530 ft AGL when he sees the target through the hill. In the second frame I start to come straight up and a buddy has a missile impact beyond the hill and you can see a cloud of dust. In the 3rd frame I am at 870 ft AGL and the top half of the unit he had spotted is now visible and he has established an IAT lock. Edit: It was mentioned in the other thread that George has some sort of "memory" as to where units may have been spotted previously? I had been flying in this area previously and we took out some of the AA units, then I retreated and setup in a hover outside of 5km. Could the unit George spotted through the hill have been "seen" previous to this when I was flying closer? If anyone else has video or tracks of similar instances of George detecting targets that should be obscured from his view, please add them here. I will try to put together a simple mission with targets in a test range and see if I can reproduce these results, and share the track file here.

Yep. This bug has been present for quite a while. Or If it was fixed at some point, it has regressed and come back in one of the last few patches.

@Raptor9 I was able to capture some screenshots of all 3 situations mentioned above. You want them in here, or start a new thread?

I'll be sure to grab some screenshots, and possibly tracks the next time I see this happen, though the tracks may not be very useful during a long MP session. In the instance of "seeing through a hill" that happened to me just the other day, there may have been one pixel of a vehicle above the hill, with 99% of the vehicle obscured. And I feel like maybe some buildings but not others can be spotted through. Again, I will get some evidence of this happening the next time I see it. As for seeing through the trees, this happens quite a lot. To my eye, the vehicle is completely concealed by the trees, and I am sitting in a hover. George not only knows the vehicle is there, but will IAT lock it without having any aspect of the vehicle to work with, via TV or FLIR. I tell him to launch the missile and it comes in from above and shacks the vehicle perfectly, which means not only can he see the vehicle, but the laser penetrates right through the tree. The only thing you see after that is a plume of smoke rising up beyond the treeline. I understand the complexities of properly occluding George's LOS based on the tree foliage, and not just the trunks, but this has always been the way it works in DCS, and is one of the more immersion-breaking aspects of using George. Sometimes I Store the location of the units to come back and attack them from a different angle, but more often than not, I just take them out from behind their tree cover and move on.

Yeah, before George gets the ability to constantly be searching for targets on his own, they need to fix his miraculous eyesight. No more ability to lock-up a vehicle that is totally obscured by trees, buildings, or even hills. And if his head is down in the TEDAC targeting a group off in the distance, he can't also be telling you about a group that is sneaking up on you from your 9 o'clock.

Or type in the MGRS coordinates as a TGT point, and make that your Acquisition Source.. Most JTAC scripts provide the coordinates of the target they are lasing, but maybe not all.

Just having the TP is not enough to fire the Lima. You will either have to 1) briefly lase it to load the data, 2) scan with the FCR and select your target as Next To Shoot, 3) or have a buddy use their FCR and RFHO the target to you.

Yeah, huge MP tracks are not very helpful. When you find some time to hop in an Instant Action solo mission and try to reproduce the issue, feel free to post it here.

A track file of this happening would help a lot. When transitioning from forward flight to a hover, she needs quite a bit of collective to keep your altitude and not settle. But if you are in an established hover, it shouldn’t just drop out of the sky like a rock.

Agreed. When George moves to the back seat, he (aggressively) moves the throttles to FLY. I don't have the throttles bound to anything for the front seat or back seat, as I only use my mouse to move them in the cockpit, and the same thing happens to me. This shouldn't be an issue though, if you have the collective all the way down.

I think if you let George do his normal startup procedures in the front, he boresights the IHADSS on his own.

@GeoS72 I was able to view this one. Not sure why the other one said it wouldn't load. The failure for George to fire (this time) was he was not in constraints. There could be more than one reason for not being in constraints, but in this situation you can see the "ROLL LIMITS" message in the High-Action Display area of his video feed. The aircraft is banking too hard for the system to let a missile come off the rail. Prior to this point, you were having him scan for the targets, but you were either outside *9999 or outside George's engagement range of 8000m. Once you got within 8km, you had him acquire the target again and turned in to get the nose on. During this time, you can see the small constraints box (in LOAL mode) was moving around as you were getting onto the target and it was a dashed box the whole time. Then just after this screenshot, the constraints box went sold and George did rifle, but by then it was too late... A couple things I noticed here, and I am by no means an expert, but will venture forth with my observations anyway: 1) You are going up with a full load of Limas. This means every time George lases the target with the TADS, he loads the TARGET DATA to the missile and then stops lasing. To get new range info, you have to have him de-WAS missiles and re-WAS them to clear the TARGET DATA and start the cycle over again. You can get around this issue by setting him to No Weapon and Laser On so that he continually lases the target and you get updated range info. Then, when you are getting close to being under his 8000m engagement range, switch him to missiles and let him load the data and rifle. The other option here is to go with a mixed load-out of Limas and Kilos and keep him on SAL to continuously lase and get range info, then switch him over to RF when you are ready to fire. Personally, I often go up with 12 Kilos and 4 Limas, and save the Limas for dangerous threats (like SAMs), but use the Kilos when I can take my time and can out-range the enemy. 2) This is more of a tactical observation. Getting out over the water and coming back to attack an SA-8 is going to be a challenge every day of the week. He will out-range you and get his missile off before yours every time, and yours still has 30+ seconds to reach the target. Yes, with the Limas you can fire your missile and duck for cover, but out over the water you have no cover. You might be better off staying over land and using the terrain and trees to your advantage. Sneak up on him and either use George to attack, or bring an FCR and fire the Limas yourself. And once your missile is in the air, get back down behind cover. I suppose if you want to get out over the water to find him, then Store him as a TGT point, you can then get back over land and know exactly where he is. 3) This doesn't effect George's ability to acquire targets and kill them, but it doesn't look like you have a good boresight of the IHADSS as you can see your reticle is off a little bit from what George is actually looking at in the TADS. Not a huge deal, but having the IHADSS boresighted accurately will help with your SA once you turn on CSCOPE and you see all your shot marks and radar returns overlayed on the IHADSS. If you don't ever use CSCOPE, I recommend you give it a try.

If that track is from the new paid campaign that came out, I think only people that have purchased it will be able to view it. First guess would be, have you selected which rockets to fire? Maybe a screenshot showing the symbology you were seeing when it wasn’t working?

I tried to watch your track and it looks like this is a .miz file, renamed to .trk, and not an actual track file. A track file will have a "track" and "track_data" folder in them. When I run your file, it lets me choose a slot to load into, etc. I also tried to watch your track file a couple time, and got a "Mission Load Fail" each time that then hung DCS. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

So, that may make it a little more difficult to troubleshoot, but the good thing is, there are a lot of servers out there that use server-side scripting. ED, please don't give up looking at this issue because it doesn't happen in your clean-room environment; this bug effects a lot of people that fly on popular public servers, some of which you even promote in your monthly newsletters.

Page 254 of the AH-64D Early Access Guide talks about setting DIR routes. Select RTE, then DIR, then POINT>? and type in the point "W44" in the KU.

Maybe it's a multiplayer thing? Can you reproduce it in a short single player mission?

I can confirm this bug, as well. Just never sat down to post about it.

What would also be helpful when providing a track is the time in mission when the (non)event occurred. The EUFD has a clock showing Zulu time, and is often visible as your are replaying a track. Make a note of the time when the issue occurred and then someone is much more likely to ffwd through your track to find it. Especially since there is no rewind function.

Can we find out of these fixes should already be in the game at this point? Or maybe a list of the known issues that remain with DL in multi-player and multi-crew situations? We are still getting instances of DL not working after setting it up on the pad and testing before lifting off. Still getting double transmits. And still getting NACK messages when the message has in fact been received. I can spend some time organizing a multi-player DL bug report again, but I don't want to waste my time if these are still known issues and being worked on.